Vaulting Question... Yes this topic again

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DyingLegend
DyingLegend Posts: 1,192 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ General Discussion
Okay so it's been a while since vaulting has been a thing and yet we have had zero feedback from devs, zero talks about what they have been seeing on there side, zero anything. 

I'm just curious if vaulting has been more positive than negative from a devs point of view. Has it fixed the issues they intended it to fix? Has it created new problems? Has the overall acquisition of 4 stars meet the expectations of the developers? Are there any plans to create new vaults? Maybe monthly vaults with different combos of old and new? 

I mean seriously I want some data, some charts or even an acknowledgement. 

I can see the benefits of vaulting and the negatives. I have been able to build up current 4 stars kinda quickly, but with that I see the same teams over and over again in pvp. 

Ive poked around the forums enough to see vaulting has mixed reviews and the people it hit hardest was the folks in the 4 star transition when vaulting happened. Veterans who had plenty of 4s beforehand are OK and new players can earn new 4 stars Okay. I feel the middle ground players got hit the hardest as most of there iso was dumped in characters they can earn in a bluemoon. 

Would increasing the bonus hero rate by 10 or 15 percent help? 

So many questions but no solid answers. 




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Comments

  • Evilplayer
    Evilplayer Posts: 29 Just Dropped In
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    I really dont get it!  Why they dont run more stores including only vaulted chars or a third 20cp store again with vaulted 4*. 
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
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    Vaulting has served its purpose and only till ZERO people buy from that 3600 HP store nothing will change. Vaulting was nothing but a cash grab. There are 5 ways to solve dilution their way made them money.

    Until they stop making money on vaulting nothing will ever change.
  • Skrofa
    Skrofa Posts: 388 Mover and Shaker
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    They will wait until there are 24 5* in the classics tokens and THEN create the new super classics token where the oldest 5* go to die.
    So we'll have 
    LT 3x5* and 12 latest 4*
    CT 12x5* and 12 latest 4*
    SCT everyone else
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
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    I think you should be more specific in what you want to see. We did get feedback before, in a 8 questions about vaulting thread, and the lead designer answered them. While I would be interested in some sort of data and charts, I wouldn't even know what stats to I'd want to see. If they had data that the bonus hero rate is actually closer to 7% than 5%, would that mean anything?

    http://forums.d3go.com/discussion/64069/answers-to-the-8-questions-about-vaulting-5-2-17/p1
    more opportunity to use their iso-8
    make faster progress on 3-star and 4-star Heroes. This should make you more competitive in events faster
    I took a couple quotes from their response that I think lays out their goals.  They wanted people to enter and compete in 4* land faster, and to have more places to spend iso. Given that this was what they set out to accomplish, I would guess they have a positive view on it. Probably why they have leaned more on nonvaulted characters as pve progression rewards, to help jump start the new metagame.

    Given that they have answered directly to 8 questions before, I would suggest listing out some specific questions. My 2 questions are
    1. Why isn't there a third or fourth LT option with the older characters?
    2. What is being done to address duplicate 4* and 5* covers?

    Given how heros for hire was nerfed to sync up with the 5 day Crash, a third token option thats more diluted shouldn't hurt H4H sales. Dupes are not necessarily related to vaulting, but they mentioned it in the 8 answers thread.





  • Evilplayer
    Evilplayer Posts: 29 Just Dropped In
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    They are greedy thats why!  they keep the older chars vaulted only cause they want more people to buy HFH :) cmon people they dont do this to help us or something, its all about the money its obvious that thats how things work here :) 
  • Evilplayer
    Evilplayer Posts: 29 Just Dropped In
    edited July 2017
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    A business is about money AND respecting your clients,  listening to what they want, to their suggestions etc. 

    P. S
    i "liked"  your comment, hope that makes u feel smart and funny  :)
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Evilplayer said:
    A business is about money AND respecting your clients,  listening to what they want, to their suggestions etc. 

    P. S
    i "liked"  your comment, hope that makes u feel smart and funny  :)
    The problem is they can't make everyone happy all the time, and sometimes it seems anyone happy any of the time. They DID listen to their customers when we kept saying over and over again "new release again, who cares, they won't be fully covered for a year and won't ever be as high level as [pick one HB, JG, Ice, etc]." The vaulting change "solved" this problem, albeit creating others that haven't really been solved yet. They spend the majority of their time creating new characters, so it only makes sense that they would want to force us to build those characters and get to use them. A third option for spending cp on older characters, while very player friendly, would undermine their goal of getting people the newer characters faster since people could just ignore the newer characters and focus on the old ones. More than anything (even money), this is why i don't think we've seen another cp option yet. They have to figure out a way to give players access to older characters without increasing cover flow too much (assuming they are happy with the current rates) and without upending their goals of quicker transition and quicker access to new characters. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mohio said:
    Evilplayer said:
    A business is about money AND respecting your clients,  listening to what they want, to their suggestions etc. 

    P. S
    i "liked"  your comment, hope that makes u feel smart and funny  :)
    The problem is they can't make everyone happy all the time, and sometimes it seems anyone happy any of the time. They DID listen to their customers when we kept saying over and over again "new release again, who cares, they won't be fully covered for a year and won't ever be as high level as [pick one HB, JG, Ice, etc]." The vaulting change "solved" this problem, albeit creating others that haven't really been solved yet. They spend the majority of their time creating new characters, so it only makes sense that they would want to force us to build those characters and get to use them. A third option for spending cp on older characters, while very player friendly, would undermine their goal of getting people the newer characters faster since people could just ignore the newer characters and focus on the old ones. More than anything (even money), this is why i don't think we've seen another cp option yet. They have to figure out a way to give players access to older characters without increasing cover flow too much (assuming they are happy with the current rates) and without upending their goals of quicker transition and quicker access to new characters. 
    But if they changed the focus to newer characters because the players asked for it, then I would think most would still focus them, just let the minority that don't have that option...  Not asking for increased flow, just asking for a choice.

    My guess is they are waiting until 5* dilution is enough of a problem that they need to solve that and then we'll get an option with the oldest 5*s and the oldest 4*s.
  • farlus
    farlus Posts: 119 Tile Toppler
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    My only concern with the current vaulting system is how the game will change once I get all 12 latests done, which should be within the next 30 days, and latests comprise most of my champed 4*. Do I basically just go on cruise control hoarding until the next 4* is released, since I'm really only pulling for champ levels at that point (and hoping for the odd BH)? Or am I forced to play more in the events that have vaulted 4* for rewards so I can continue to develop my roster? Both options seem like less to look forward to than I have now. Based on everything I read I'm not going anywhere near 5* land anytime soon.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    farlus said:
    My only concern with the current vaulting system is how the game will change once I get all 12 latests done, which should be within the next 30 days, and latests comprise most of my champed 4*. Do I basically just go on cruise control hoarding until the next 4* is released, since I'm really only pulling for champ levels at that point (and hoping for the odd BH)? Or am I forced to play more in the events that have vaulted 4* for rewards so I can continue to develop my roster? Both options seem like less to look forward to than I have now. Based on everything I read I'm not going anywhere near 5* land anytime soon.
    This ultimately depends on what your goals are.  If your goals are to be as competitive as possible, especially in PvP, I would think you'd keep pulling champ levels because they higher they are before they get vaulted the better off you will be when they are featured.  The only reason you might hoard is if all or most of the 12 aren't very good and you want to wait for better.

    If your focus is more on just champing everyone and less concerned about competitiveness/max champ and/or if you want to start chasing 5*s then is when you'd want to focus more on hoarding once you get all 12 champed.
  • TetsujinOni
    TetsujinOni Posts: 181 Tile Toppler
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    If they're taking the SCL-scaling conversation and turning it into the fixing SCL-based rewards to prevent SCL-sandbagging by having the SCL8 rewards be enough better to be worth the time delta.... 

    Then they SHOULD be slow-rolling that change (and the scaling changes last year were repeatedly tested before rollout).

    *looks at your list of obvious downsides that need addressed*

    Only the HFH change from Behemoth to Crash seems like it's a negative change in what you've listed.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
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    There's 3 pages of people saying they are burned out  or fear burnout like 5 threads down thanks to 5 clears.

    This is literally a thread about the downsides of vaulting and how it's incomplete.

  • dstann
    dstann Posts: 55 Match Maker
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    broll said:
    This ultimately depends on what your goals are.  If your goals are to be as competitive as possible, especially in PvP, I would think you'd keep pulling champ levels because they higher they are before they get vaulted the better off you will be when they are featured. 


    But how often are 4* featured in PVP?  Isn't it mostly 3* these days?
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,260 Chairperson of the Boards
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    dstann said:
    broll said:
    This ultimately depends on what your goals are.  If your goals are to be as competitive as possible, especially in PvP, I would think you'd keep pulling champ levels because they higher they are before they get vaulted the better off you will be when they are featured. 


    But how often are 4* featured in PVP?  Isn't it mostly 3* these days?
    The boosted 4*'s in PVP are much more important than whatever 3* is featured. If you have the featured 3* max champed at 266, it's a nice bonus and depending on who it is, they might rival the 4*'s.

    Level aside, you also need to consider the 3* tier is overall weaker than the 4* tier. 3* tier is mostly older chars and power creep is a real thing when you consider 4*'s that were released this past year.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
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    New players can transition to 4 star play faster, but should they? A 2 star player can easily inflate their shield rank and quickly build up a 4 star roster completely skipping the 3 star tier. But that would and probably has wreck their scaling to have champed 4s before they are ready. 

    More than fixing scaling for 5 star players, upcoming scl based levels fixes this for player jumping into the 4 star tier faster than they really should.

    Was moving into 4 star land slow before vaulting? Absolutely, but it was considered a marathon. It took me a year and a half to transition. 14 champs when vaulting hit.

    Today, I have 32 champs. 9 out of the current 12 champed. 11 of 12 maxed covered. 8 more former 12s or vaulted characters champed.

    But it is no longer Marathon. It is a rare. A race to champ each of the 12 as fast as possible before they are vaulted away into oblivion.

    Sorry for typos. 3 am and I'm too lazy to go edit.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    dstann said:
    broll said:
    This ultimately depends on what your goals are.  If your goals are to be as competitive as possible, especially in PvP, I would think you'd keep pulling champ levels because they higher they are before they get vaulted the better off you will be when they are featured. 


    But how often are 4* featured in PVP?  Isn't it mostly 3* these days?
    I meant boosted.  Also I feel it's inevitable that 4* featured PvP will start becoming more frequent, think that was probably a goal of vaulting, to get people into 4* tier faster so they could do 4* PvP (but that's highly speculative)
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
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    GurlBYE said:
    Vaulting has shifted this problem in exchange for a larger one, now there is an ever growing percentage of characters locked away, who appear once every 3 to 4 months as an essential (while still being boosted an unobtainable) 
    And who still appear in the roots of every part of the game (Behemoth burrito, pvp teams)

    You say the problem is ever growing, but I think it is almost the opposite. If every character that gets added to the vault is champed, or at least decently covered, then they are still good for the burrito, pvp, pve, the clash. Then your percentage of vaulted champs would be ever growing.

    smkspy said:

    Was moving into 4 star land slow before vaulting? Absolutely, but it was considered a marathon. It took me a year and a half to transition. 14 champs when vaulting hit.

    Today, I have 32 champs. 9 out of the current 12 champed. 11 of 12 maxed covered. 8 more former 12s or vaulted characters champed.

    But it is no longer Marathon. It is a rare. A race to champ each of the 12 as fast as possible before they are vaulted away into oblivion.

    Its a race, but it looks like you are winning. I am at 7/12 champed, with maybe 5 more seasons to champ (Coulson, fully covered) before he gets vaulted. Thats not a very daunting task. And a vaulted champ is hardly in oblivion.

  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
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    Straycat said:
    GurlBYE said:
    Vaulting has shifted this problem in exchange for a larger one, now there is an ever growing percentage of characters locked away, who appear once every 3 to 4 months as an essential (while still being boosted an unobtainable) 
    And who still appear in the roots of every part of the game (Behemoth burrito, pvp teams)

    You say the problem is ever growing, but I think it is almost the opposite. If every character that gets added to the vault is champed, or at least decently covered, then they are still good for the burrito, pvp, pve, the clash. Then your percentage of vaulted champs would be ever growing.


    I mean sure besides the fact that I had 1 4 champ before vaulting.

    So now I have an ever growing number of characters that won't be champed without intervention?

    I'm perfectly fine with being contrary and covering multiple perspectives but this is one thats super obvious.
    The change only negatively effected your champ levels if you already had them all champed.

    If you were part of the Very large amount of people who didn't have all the 3's/4's champed. The problems clear as day.

    For everyone i have between 1 and 6 covers?
    Well yeah. no. I can't clear their clashes, in pve they aren't as useful as someone fully covered and in pvp they are a huge liability no matter how boosted without being fully covered.

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