aesthetocyst wrote: KGB wrote: Sorry maybe I didn't understand what you meant by 'new players'. I understood it to mean players just starting the game right now. Yes, that's what a 'new' player is. Man, I am not understanding the mental block some of the respondents to this thread are having. Again, YES, established players can afford slots as they needs them (so long as they aren't burning too much HP on boosts/shields/tokens). And that's great. But the point of this thread is that for new players, the amount of catchup they have to do is constantly increasing, and has been increasing. And currently the cost of rostering all characters is up to 80,675 HP. Less if they pass on some characters, sure. But eventually, to be competitive, a players will need to roster most characters. And whether they do it all at once (new player plays prologue and immediately buys 120 slots, haha), or over the course of a year (or two ... or three ...), they'll have to come up with that sum, in addition to the ongoing requirements of new releases. I'm up to slot #120. Didn't seem so bad .... over the course of 960 days. But I grew as the game grew. Should new players who decide to go all in on MPQ be satisfied with taking 960 days from now to catch up? archmag wrote: I don't see a problem. We also did not have any of that when we started. If they aspire to reaching the endgame why should not they pass through the same experience as we did? Because they quite literally can't have the same experience "we" did. (I don't know when you started so I'm throwing the "we" in quotes.) When I started, there were a couple dozen characters in game. So I had to build up a couple dozen slots. Acquiring new characters was a rare experience after the first week or so. There were only seven 1*s, twelve 2*s, nine 3*s, and two 4*s. 30 characters total. Acquiring a new character by pulling a token was a rare and momentous event. Rosters grew by new releases. Playing the game and maybe an occasional small purchase were all it took to catch up and keep up. Now, players have the opportunity to earn far more iso and yes even more hp than way back when. However, when first starting out now, almost every token pull is something new to roster. There are 63 characters in standards, 55 in elites, and 95 in heroics! Saying a new player can hoard tokens or just burn the covers is easy to say, but it's ultimately just a delaying tactic. At some point, they have to come up with as many as 120 "extra" slots to catch up, in addition to new releases. How the heck is that "having the same experience we had"? We were relatively eased into this, the earlier you started the easier it was. Even if slots were significantly discounted, new players would still be facing a big chunk of catchup to swallow, whether they take nibbles or one big, choking gulp.
KGB wrote: Sorry maybe I didn't understand what you meant by 'new players'. I understood it to mean players just starting the game right now.
archmag wrote: I don't see a problem. We also did not have any of that when we started. If they aspire to reaching the endgame why should not they pass through the same experience as we did?
aesthetocyst wrote: Man, I am not understanding the mental block some of the respondents to this thread are having. Again, YES, established players can afford slots as they needs them (so long as they aren't burning too much HP on boosts/shields/tokens). And that's great. But the point of this thread is that for new players, the amount of catchup they have to do is constantly increasing, and has been increasing. And currently the cost of rostering all characters is up to 80,675 HP. Less if they pass on some characters, sure. But eventually, to be competitive, a players will need to roster most characters. And whether they do it all at once (new player plays prologue and immediately buys 120 slots, haha), or over the course of a year (or two ... or three ...), they'll have to come up with that sum, in addition to the ongoing requirements of new releases. I'm up to slot #120. Didn't seem so bad .... over the course of 960 days. But I grew as the game grew. Should new players who decide to go all in on MPQ be satisfied with taking 960 days from now to catch up?
whycantwesyncpcrchmag wrote: There are bigger problems for new players. There is no guidance on how to do things right. I play in a casual alliance, and it's amazing how many new players are rosters 5* characters before they even have all of the 2*'s. Stuff like that is why they stop playing, because they don't get why suddenly everything is too difficult to play.
aesthetocyst wrote: whycantwesyncpc wrote: If the point is for someone to catch up overnight and have everything they should pay for the HP to do it. If you can't enjoy the game unless you have everything that is your problem. The only thing to this game is characters and if you are just given everything there is no point in even playing. Besides, if they can roster everyone quickly then they will still be selling covers left and right because they won't have the iso to level anyone? Or are we supposed to give them unlimited iso because they are new and need to catch up super fast. Or they can play the game right and enjoy the ride. I see the Defenders of the Status Quo of Ever-Escalating Total Costs have now retrenched to false dichotomies. There are not two extremes here, between carrying on as-is on one hand, and giving everything away for free on the other. Nor are there only two types of players, those willing to grind away endlessly within narrow constraints, trying to chase constantly retreating goals, and those demanding everything right now. The game continues to grow. As it offers more, it demands more. As players need more and more slots, slots themselves become less rare, less precious. It's a digital good, spun from ether. Nothing other than dev fiat and consent of the players supports the prices. I suggested in a post above that the toal costs of slots 0-120 be cut ~37.5%, from 80K allllll the way down to a 'mere' 50K. How long does it take you to earn 50K HP? We all know what the store has to say about that. Not exactly "giving it away". And what you say about iso is hilarious New players don't need iso. Why not? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ROSTER CHARACTERS New players got nothing to spend iso on, because they can't acquire slots fast enough to avoid burning covers. Humorously, a friend of mine that plays this game casually mentioned this last night out of the blue. "You know that game? It's ridiculous. I have 200,000 iso and more all the time. Can't keep up with slots." Of course 200,000 iso will not go far. But there needs to be a balance between supply and demand. And the relationship of iso available to acquisition of slots is out of balance. You might say, "well screw them pony up" ... but why should they? By the time a play has 50 slots, spending $20 while afford them a whopping THREE slots ... and they know they haven't even rostered half the characters in game yet. Pay 20 bucks for 3 slots and still have 67 more to go??? Or 100 bucks for 20 slots??? Sane people look at that and say, "Nope". If not long before (see Lystrata, above). They aren't getting much for their money. Of course they could choose to spend their way out, and play their way out, but it's a very high bar.
whycantwesyncpc wrote: If the point is for someone to catch up overnight and have everything they should pay for the HP to do it. If you can't enjoy the game unless you have everything that is your problem. The only thing to this game is characters and if you are just given everything there is no point in even playing. Besides, if they can roster everyone quickly then they will still be selling covers left and right because they won't have the iso to level anyone? Or are we supposed to give them unlimited iso because they are new and need to catch up super fast. Or they can play the game right and enjoy the ride.
whycantwesyncpc wrote: Otherwise play the game and enjoy it for being the game. Don't want to buy slots and you are losing covers? Don't redeem tokens if you don't have a slot for a new character.
whycantwesyncpc wrote: Don't want to buy slots and you are losing covers? Don't redeem tokens if you don't have a slot for a new character.