Rootbreaker wrote: Yeah, she's amazing. I've literally never lost a quick battle with her (except memory leak crashing). To be fair, they did nerf Day's Undoing this patch (6 cost to 10 cost). You can't talent of the telepath into it anymore. The other change to my deck is that prism array draws you cards even if your opponent's board is empty now. This is stronger, but I think it slows you down, so it's worse overall for quick battle. I don't think Jace or Gideon ever needed nerfs. Chandra certainly does (and does again, at least for Quick Battle, since they accidentally reverted the first ability to cost 3 again).
EDHdad wrote: Shame on who, specifically? All of the points you mentioned have been brought up many times since Kiora was spoiled. Yes, she's powerful. But she's not going to win any faster than Garruk, Gideon II, Ajani or even Chandra in PvP mode. And if you're facing her in PvP mode, she can be defeated just fine by any color walker. With some of the later challenges in the new Oath of the Gatewatch event, you're going to be mighty thankful that you have access to a powerful planeswalker. The opposing walkers can have as much as 412 starting life. One of them can give all of its creatures +3/+3 reach, flying and hexproof for 6 loyalty. One of them does 6 damage to you and all of your creatures. One of them can throw down a creature which kills a support and a 5x5 block of gems, and has huge power and toughness and has berserker and reach. My Kiora / Thopter Spy Network deck barely hobbled out alive. And only then, because Herald of the Pantheon gave me 3 life whenever I cast a support. They Nerfed Jace, Chandra and Ajani because their first abilities cost 3 loyalty and could basically be spammed each turn. Putting these abilities at 6 makes them on par with other planeswalkers whose first ability costs 6 to 9. They did Nerf Kiora by Nerfing the two most popular cards people put into her decks: Day's Undoing and Noyan Dar. I agree that 2 color planeswalkers are inherently powerful simply by the fact that they have access to 2 colors of cards. However, this is not a reason to Nerf the 2-color walkers, but to make at least 7 more walkers with 2 color combinations: white-blue, white-black, white-green, blue-black, blue-red, black-green, and red-green.
jollyrogercjf wrote: Well we are now reaching the point where non-whales are getting access to the card. After it first released you see a kiora in QB, you know whats coming, it's a nightmare to play against because they will have all the proper mythics and rares to make your life miserable. That said now that the dolphins and minnows are gaining access it's not a guaranteed loss anymore, other than the 2 to 3 whales you see a couple times a day it's a good match but definitely winnable.
khurram wrote: So its not necessarily her abilities but the presence of certain mythics in the deck that make her powerful
Abenjes wrote: Every game needs an ultimate form or a most powerful weapon to chase , this is Kiora. She is beyond many players ability to buy and at 950 nearly double the price of the other dual walkers. Surely that would mean she should be just a bit better? Also we havnt seen a white/green or green/red or blue/black walker yet, all those colours scare the bejesus out of me
shteev wrote: I've just spent 950 crystals, and 170k (I think?) runes on Kiora. So I can confidently say that Kiora is RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, and should be nerfed immediately. She has access to the fastest mana in the game in green, and the best card draw AND removal in blue. Nissa's Pilgrimage/Fertile Ticket/Natural Connection accelerate your cards out of your hand, and Jhessian Thief/Sigiled Starfish/Prism Array/Artificer's Epiphany/Coastal Discovery/Any number of other cards fill your hand up again for minimal cost. God forbid you have access to Day's Undoing, that's a combo which is too powerful to be allowed to exist. She combines all this fast mana with an inexpensive first ability which gives her even more mana, while simultaneously draining her opponent! Playing blue gives her access to bounce, still the strongest form of removal in the game, which copes better with Hangarback Walkers than simply destroying them, and can easily deal with Undergrowth Champion, far and away the most broken creature in the game right now. And she can play Undergrowth Champion herself. And she need not devote any space in her deck to a win condition, since her ultimate ability will do the job (unlike, say, Ajani, or Jace)... and quickly, as well. Shame on anybody who has bought her and is happily playing away with a 100% win rate without bringing her extreme brokenness to the dev's attention. If Ajani needed a nerf before the last update, and Chandra needed one before that, and Jace needed one before that, and Gideon needed one before that, then Kiora UNQUESTIONABLY does now, and has done for a long time. Clearly, being able to play more than one color of cards is a huge advantage to a planeswalker in this game. Surely, then, they should be handicapped by having lower mana gains than normal, and abilities with less raw power. Consider the difference between Gideon's 'Sharp Eyes' and 'Call to Arms' abilities... Sharp Eyes is low on power, but provides a situationally useful abilty which combines well with many White creatures and spells, whereas 'Call to Arms' gives you a very high return on power and toughness per loyalty spent.
EDHdad wrote: If it wasn't for the bug, the Tyrant of Valakut challenge could be easily done with Gideon I, Gideon II or Ajani with some lifegain cards, and possibly Ob-Nixilis or Garruk running some lifegain cards as well. The Kiora strategy people are playing is a glass cannon. You either cascade into an early octopus or you fail the objective.
EDHdad wrote: Pre-Nerf Ajani was way more consistent and much faster. I had a 250+ game win streak going with Ajani which won in an average of less than 4 minutes, and rarely closed out the game under 105 life (which sadly ended when the screen froze after the last update).
EDHdad wrote: In true PvP mode, Kiora would get ROFL stomped by Ob-Nixilis. Go ahead and draw 6 cards and take 48 damage. Then cast your scary octopus which I kill for 5 mana.