Kiora is too powerful

Barrelrolla

Netatron wrote:

andrewvanmarle wrote:

No offense Netatron but you are sore because you tried a deck without the right components against a well built deck? Starfield of nix isn't'that strong to begin with....

The combination is strong but can be played by mono-blue planeswalkers too, and with just as great effect. and it dies on removal just as much!

I'm'actually getting tired of nerfcalling in general, most of it is "i lost to this, nerf it". A combo or planeswalker does NOT need nerfing unless there are no answers to it available in the game.

In other words, adapt to the metagame and include removal or bounce spells......

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that forcing people to include removal or control in their decks if they want to reliably win pvp is harmful to the metagame because it limits what you can play, especially when the colors that require you to have these things to beat them are also the best at using them. I haven't actually called for a nerf to anything.

Having to put removal in your deck to win is and will always be a part of the game. Every color and every planeswalker can put a 40/40 on the board. You need removal to be able to remove such threat. If you play green, which is lacking removal spells, there is Scour from existence (common if I'm not miataken).
You can not put removal if all you want is a race with your opponent who will put the bigger creature first.
Not to mention that the AI can also use removal, so your deck will be a bit stronger when people play against it.
I hate when I put a 16/16 Avaricious Dragon thanks to Mirrorpool and it gets destroyed for 5 mana, but I can do the same and that's an important part if the game.

ShawnP1

Just like in real Magic the meta changes with new cards, it is a constantly changing thing not just because new cards but mostly by new strategy, no one deck dominates all others; sure dual color decks can be a bit harder but I have never faced a deck that could not be beaten by each and every color, difficult? absolutely but impossible? Never. So have a little patience and suck it up.

Netatron

ShawnP1 wrote:

Just like in real Magic the meta changes with new cards, it is a constantly changing thing not just because new cards but mostly by new strategy, no one deck dominates all others; sure dual color decks can be a bit harder but I have never faced a deck that could not be beaten by each and every color, difficult? absolutely but impossible? Never. So have a little patience and suck it up.

Yes, every color can beat every other color. Kiora isn't really a problem, it's just that blue and green together can ramp up very fast and have the best creature removal/control. Scour from Existence is an important card, but why is better than most of red's creature removal cards? Shouldn't red be good at that? Why does a colorless common beat out colored rares?

ShawnP1

Mana Cost difference and red destroys by damage, red should not have great destroy ability that is blacks thing; colorless is supposed to do a little bit of everything but at higher cost, thus scour from existence is so expensive. This is how the colors are designed by WOTC they all have strengths and weaknesses, they all do removal differently.

Netatron

ShawnP1 wrote:

Mana Cost difference and red destroys by damage, red should not have great destroy ability that is blacks thing; colorless is supposed to do a little bit of everything but at higher cost, thus scour from existence is so expensive. This is how the colors are designed by WOTC they all have strengths and weaknesses, they all do removal differently.

There's nothing scour can't do that the more expensive rare red Radiant Flames can. The amount of damage red does with destroy spells just can't compete against these mirrorpooled mythical eldrazi that are all over. The only native red removal that works now is just trying to ramp up berserkers faster than your enemy, but red has nothing on green's ability to ramp, and berserkers are powerless against disables. All red seems to have right now is fairly efficient creatures and gem destruction. Exquisite Firecraft isn't what it used to be, so you're forced to run scour instead. If you're running scour it ruins decks based around pyromancer's goggles+one expensive spell. I'm sure the metagame will change as more planeswalkers and cards are released, I'm just saying that things feel very constricted right now. If anything, a nerf to Nissa's Renewal in the vein of Animist's Awakening makes sense and would be healthy for the game for the same reasons the AA nerf was. It's more of a problem with green than with Kiora, I think a green/red or green/black planeswalker would be just as bad.

Barrelrolla

That's the reason why there are colorless cards. To fill the gaps in the color you're using. And that's why dual colored decks are so popular in paper magic. Every color has a strength and a weakness. When you're playing dual colored deck you want to use two colors that complement each other. In the case of Kiora, that's an amazing combination. But there are also other combinations that are very strong. We just don't have them yet, but as they add new dual colored planeswalkers you'll see.
Eldrazi cards are designed to be powerfull monsters and that's why in the current meta you need removal. And I don't mean "deal X damage", by removal I mean "destroy target creature". Black has it, White has it and for the others, colorless has it.
And you're wrong about Scour from Existence and Radiant Flames.
Radiant Flames cannot kill Kiora's octopi, but Scour from Existence can. One deals damage, the other one just kills a creature, no matter it's stats.

Franko

In paper magic I'd 90% of the time go duel colour decks but for some reason in this i'd rather play as and against mono. As has been said there is colourless to fill the gaps in a mono. Either way everyone has the same chances and there is always a way to beat a deck.