*** Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff) ***

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  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    daibar wrote:
    Boosted, I believe CStorm does 2588 damage, so CStorm's more effected boosted than SW not boosted.

    I do agree that Magstorm was a minor problem for D3. People would take that team in and crush nodes, not bothering to invest in many other 2*s. People say Magstorm was nerfed because it was nerfed; don't want to rehash the character thread, but it's here. It still 'works', but it's just not as good and you'll take more damage. Same with Magstique (I refuse to call that combo winfinite because you could and often did lose to high level match damage, and it wasn't always infinite). It still works, but now it's slower and in the time it takes to set up, you could have lost the match or set up some other more powerful combo with other characters.

    Using SW as a tiny blue battery is interesting. I'd love to try to use her with Mystique as well, but SW eats health packs when I bring her out.

    My 150/5 cover Storm is doing 2888 damage to all targets with a specific stun.
    I've only got 3 Purple covers for SW, but at level 153 she is currently boosted to 220 and her purple is only doing 1887 with a random stun (2219 if I get the fourth cover).

    The big deal is that SW is doing:
    85 purpletile.png
    75 greentile.png
    66 bluetile.png
    and she has 11,388 hit points at 220 compared to:
    71 greentile.png
    63 bluetile.png
    55 yellowtile.png
    and 4,620 hit points for Storm at 150.

    Her purple may not hit as hard as Storm's blue, but she can hang around in battle for a lot longer.

    That's why I've had a ton of defensive victories with my SW/Colossus/Storm team. Arcane is generating purple using a blue tile. If the AI matches the blue, it quickly powers up Storm. Obviously most teams are going to immediately try and kill Storm... problem is, you are going to get her Yellow counter attack if you try and go too quickly and you are going to get her blue if you don't go quick enough. And if Colossus gets his tank tile out, it is going to force you to attack your third target for a few turns, which can lead to a Reality Crush/Blue Storm combo. If Colossus tanks long enough to launch either SW or Storm, you have a 50% chance of taking another nasty AoE shot when they land (or a hexbolt or lightning storm, which will gather in some more AP for a potential to get off another attack).
  • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,029 Chairperson of the Boards
    Although some interesting points have been brought up in regards to other characters, remember this is a Scarlet Witch discussion thread. Please keep the discussion on topic. Thank you.

    If you wish to continue the off topic discussion, please do it here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30159

    Finally, if you are aware that the discussion is going off topic, it would be highly appreciated if you took the time to either take it to the appropriate character thread or at the very least start a new topic. Just quote the off topic point you wish to respond to and start a new topic. Thanks!
  • Scarlet means "blood red", and yet she doesn't even have a red ability. Her blue should definitely be red.

    Where's the poll to vote for her power build? Please fix.
  • XenoberyllXenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    Buret0 wrote:
    Her purple may not hit as hard as Storm's blue, but she can hang around in battle for a lot longer.

    Scarlet Witch creates her own purple but her version of wind storm also takes more ap, stuns randomly and doesn't do much more damage than the storm original. Her being a 3star, i would have thought she'd do at least 3k damage considering those drawbacks (ie. KK does 3.4k for 12 ap without the stun and creates the green to do it too). Cstorm at 150 outdamaging my Witch at 210 (5/4/4) and with a targeted stun - that's disappointing.

    (just wanted to add this back here again)
  • icon_scarletwitch.png isn't gonna get buffed, she's magstorm 2.0, if anything, we'll be looking at a nerf
  • I think there's enough people arguing she's underpowered and enough arguing that she's overpowered that they won't touch her unless her usage numbers suddenly skyrocket.

    I'm finding her stun on her AOE usually useless unless I'm down to 1 character, in which case it's free turns. Also, since the correction was moved to another thread:
    CStorm Lvl 94: 1838 dmg, 501 dmg/AP
    CStorm Lvl 134: 2588 dmg, 705 dmg/AP (old boosted level)
    CStorm Lvl 150: 2888 dmg, 787 dmg/AP (new boosted level)
    SW Lvl 166: 2198 dmg, 471 dmg/AP

    So even without being boosted, CStorm is already doing more damage per AP. I think she's allowed this power because she's a 2* and has really low HP (much like OBW). Also, no one is really afraid of CStorm's yellow though it's annoying to newer players. It's rare that people use 5 yellow covers.

    Considering SW's placement in the latest rankings (29th) I don't see any changes for her any time soon. Considering her very weak Green and semi-weak Purple abilities, they'll let her keep her strong Blue passive.
  • daibar wrote:
    I think there's enough people arguing she's underpowered and enough arguing that she's overpowered that they won't touch her unless her usage numbers suddenly skyrocket.

    I'm finding her stun on her AOE usually useless unless I'm down to 1 character, in which case it's free turns. Also, since the correction was moved to another thread:
    CStorm Lvl 94: 1838 dmg, 501 dmg/AP
    CStorm Lvl 134: 2588 dmg, 705 dmg/AP (old boosted level)
    CStorm Lvl 150: 2888 dmg, 787 dmg/AP (new boosted level)
    SW Lvl 166: 2198 dmg, 471 dmg/AP

    So even without being boosted, CStorm is already doing more damage per AP. I think she's allowed this power because she's a 2* and has really low HP (much like OBW). Also, no one is really afraid of CStorm's yellow though it's annoying to newer players. It's rare that people use 5 yellow covers.

    Considering SW's placement in the latest rankings (29th) I don't see any changes for her any time soon. Considering her very weak Green and semi-weak Purple abilities, they'll let her keep her strong Blue passive.
    someone put her at top 10 in the rankings, and rightfully so
  • So I am running her at lvl 166 with 5/3/5. Is this properly covered? I find her green lacking (though it does return ap) and 5 purple every 5 turns (it gets matched by either the ai or random match every other turn on average) adds up really quickly. Comments?
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    traedoril wrote:
    So I am running her at lvl 166 with 5/3/5. Is this properly covered? I find her green lacking (though it does return ap) and 5 purple every 5 turns (it gets matched by either the ai or random match every other turn on average) adds up really quickly. Comments?
    I'm on record in this thread as saying 5 in green was a lousy upgrade over 3 in green, but after using her a lot, the purple is completely useless. I've never needed to use it ever, but there have been times when an undercovered green has hurt. Specifically, if I need some purple to get GSBW/PX going again, and I use the green to try to pop one, and it misses.
  • simonsez wrote:
    traedoril wrote:
    So I am running her at lvl 166 with 5/3/5. Is this properly covered? I find her green lacking (though it does return ap) and 5 purple every 5 turns (it gets matched by either the ai or random match every other turn on average) adds up really quickly. Comments?
    I'm on record in this thread as saying 5 in green was a lousy upgrade over 3 in green, but after using her a lot, the purple is completely useless. I've never needed to use it ever, but there have been times when an undercovered green has hurt. Specifically, if I need some purple to get GSBW/PX going again, and I use the green to try to pop one, and it misses.

    I am in the opposite boat. I use her purple alot, (especially against hulk). The aoe against non-hulk teams is decent and I try and pair it with an ability that will kill 2 characters instead of just one, namely Rage of the Black Panther. I almost never use her green. It is to sporadic on where it pops.
  • traedoril wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    traedoril wrote:
    So I am running her at lvl 166 with 5/3/5. Is this properly covered? I find her green lacking (though it does return ap) and 5 purple every 5 turns (it gets matched by either the ai or random match every other turn on average) adds up really quickly. Comments?
    I'm on record in this thread as saying 5 in green was a lousy upgrade over 3 in green, but after using her a lot, the purple is completely useless. I've never needed to use it ever, but there have been times when an undercovered green has hurt. Specifically, if I need some purple to get GSBW/PX going again, and I use the green to try to pop one, and it misses.

    I am in the opposite boat. I use her purple alot, (especially against hulk). The aoe against non-hulk teams is decent and I try and pair it with an ability that will kill 2 characters instead of just one, namely Rage of the Black Panther. I almost never use her green. It is to sporadic on where it pops.
    exploit her purple generation like iron fist
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    traedoril wrote:
    I am in the opposite boat. I use her purple alot, (especially against hulk).
    That seems dangerous, when there's only a 1/3 chance he'll be the one getting stunned...
  • How about a change like this: her purple has a 50/50 chance to stun the non-primary targets. So in the opposite of Wind Storm where you aim at the one you want stunned, you would aim the one you DONT want to stun then still have a 50% chance to stun the one you want. Sounds chaotic enough for me.
  • XenoberyllXenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    i don't think the chaotic nature of the stun is the issue here, it's that the stun comes before the damage and that the stun is too often rendered useless because the one that gets hit is also the one who'd die anyways.
  • Xenoberyll wrote:
    i don't think the chaotic nature of the stun is the issue here, it's that the stun comes before the damage and that the stun is too often rendered useless because the one that gets hit is also the one who'd die anyways.
    That change would, kinda of, address this a bit too. A target that is too low and will die would be the primary target, so its not in the gamble for the stun. Its a nice buff IMO.
  • john1620bjohn1620b Age Unconfirmed Posts: 367
    No, her green ability still only destroys tiles around the one you select. 5 covers just gives it the ability to destroy other special tiles (countdown, invisibility, and Ultron's drop tiles). There's only a chance that it will destroy those, though, which is why people were suggesting leaving green at 3 covers.
  • To everyone saying they want the damage before the stun:

    This would technically mean that passive abilities like Anger, Energy Absorption or Raging Tempest should still trigger, since the enemy isn't stunned yet when the damage happens. Be careful what you wish for.
  • LuciferianXLuciferianX Age Unconfirmed Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    Sorry, meant to post this yesterday but didn't have the time to do so.

    I understand what you're saying based on the way the structure exists now, Wolfman. What I'm lobbying for isn't a 'switch' where Reactives go off in the stack prior, it's an address to the stacking order itself. Currently, Wanda strikes the enemy team, then they are reduced to 0, then prior to being downed, the status effect is applied, then reactive abilities go off.

    In your example, you're suggesting that taking damage is synchronous with the activation of a reactive power, but we know that isn't true today; you can use Hypersonic Punch on Hulk, strike for 2.5k, and apply the status effect. His reactive, Anger, now triggers, but because he's in a Stunned status, can't deploy. So the power goes off -- he met the threshold for damage -- but the Stun supercedes the placement of the tile as Stunned characters can only activate traps.

    What I'm asking is for a change in the sequence in the stack:

    After Reality Crush:

    1) Calculate and assign damage (2,188 base @ 166/5)
    2) Apply damage (this happens today, so far, the order is the same)
    3) Resolve damage (this is the step that is normally at the end; let's assume that of 3 targets, one is now downed)
    4) Apply power effects (now Crush has only two eligible targets, one is stunned for 5 turns)
    5) Resolve reactive abilities (Hulk, if active, will now trigger Anger; Carol will activate Energy Absorb)

    I do understand what you're saying, but you're linking these things as instant (Hulk takes damage and therefore triggers Anger if we move the Stun), when they aren't; each is a sequential step that is causal, and can be organized as needed. Also remember that currently, Effects go off prior to Reaction (this is why Thor can throw Mjolnir's Might, drop 3 yellow tiles, resolve those tiles, then Hulk activates Anger). I want damage resolution to move up in the order so it is ahead of effect application.

    Another advantage is that this would speed up the last frame of matches ended by a power/effect. So you have your 12 yellow and throw Thunder Strike when your opponent has 600 HP remaining; power activates, damage is assigned, damage is resolved, target is downed, now the effect goes off but you go to the blank screen while everything flashes around. Free fireworks!
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Stuns are always applied first. Look at current cpt marvel pvp. I have had her with deadpool, enemy marvel uses supersonic punch, current character is stunned, then dmg applies and my deadpool many times jumps in, the reason being sometimes you don't want dmg induced passive a going off. I think it's meant as a power check, otherwise you start running into the 2 for 1 scenarios that got 4hor nerfed. She stuns first, then applies dmg. Either down the guy that would take lethal before using or spread dmg around or try to use sooner, but I would rather have it as is then have my deadpool get stunned right before whales is ready to go off, or triggering marvel's passive allowing cyclops to bonk me. Fury does the same thing he stuns before applying dmg. It sounds like you want it to stun last but not trigger passive a and the game isn't built that way.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    I'm starting to believe that her best build is going to be 4/4/5 or 3/5/5 and that her best use is to funnel purple to another character. She can also use her green to target specific colors (or to pick up stray purple), so long as you aren't looking to use green for another purpose.

    Like putting her with KK doesn't make as much sense... using her purple to produce green so that KK can use her bash means that SW's purple and green are both useless.

    The same issue arises when trying to fuel Iron Fist's purple attack. You aren't going to use Hexbolt to gather more Purple.

    The same issue arises with Squirrel Girl, her Green is going to be tops and her purple is situational.

    GSBW might be the best choice of this type... feed her the Purple so that she can make Crit tiles and Green AP? Again,

    Blade is interesting... his green is a passive. If you can get a lot of strike tiles in play, getting a bunch of purple attack tiles on the board. Problem will be keeping his attack tiles and strike tiles alive with all that purple popping up.

    Loki also has a green passive, but I don't know that overloading his board shake is the best use of SW's purple.

    Original Black Widow is an interesting choice... you produce a ton of purple (and likely some extra blue from the appearing CD tile), but she's really only a decent option in this situation when she's boosted IMO.

    Mystique could be fun in a 5/3/5. Still need to hunt down the black that you need, but you can use hexbolt to grab those. You'll probably end up with more purple than you need, so you're going to be able to keep recasting shapeshift into masterstroke, as well as keeping one out there for stun and AP steal. Paired with Iron Fist?

    Deadpool covers Red/Purple/Black... feeding him to power up Whales faster? Pair with IMHB?

    Doom is trouble because you are going to break a lot of his trap tiles, but powering his purple up often might also be worthwhile.
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