Mommson wrote: Mommson wrote: Stormheart wrote: How exactly is Storm's Classic green power level 5 working? Does it overwrite previous levels, so I get only 1 tile for one AP, no more 6 additional tiles? Sorry guys (and girls) but all the answers given in this thread to this question are wrong. Before yesterday I thought you know what you're doing but now I have a classic storm with 5 points in Green and the answer is, the 6 additional tiles vanish at level 5. So if you use the skill with exactly 12 Green available, the skill does not change. It destroys 12 tiles at level 4 and 12 tiles at level 5. The maximum you can get is therefore 21 tiles at level 4 and 30 tiles at level 5 with 30 Green present. So if you factor this in, here some thoughts about classic and modern in comparison: 12 Green AP: modern storm better because 12 vs 16 tiles with 2 AP to spare 20 Green AP: modern storm gets 32 tiles. If classic gets 4 or more Green AP with the first use of her skill , then she can use him again and gets 32 + tiles (but already used 4 of them) 30 Green AP: modern gets 48 tiles. Classic gets 48 tiles as well but has 6 Green AP at the end to spare. At the end of the day, although they sound much different the skills are generally the same at level 5. In my opinion (since 10 minutes ago when i started thinking about it) modern storm Green skill is even slightly ahead Here a quote about the same question
Mommson wrote: Stormheart wrote: How exactly is Storm's Classic green power level 5 working? Does it overwrite previous levels, so I get only 1 tile for one AP, no more 6 additional tiles? Sorry guys (and girls) but all the answers given in this thread to this question are wrong. Before yesterday I thought you know what you're doing but now I have a classic storm with 5 points in Green and the answer is, the 6 additional tiles vanish at level 5. So if you use the skill with exactly 12 Green available, the skill does not change. It destroys 12 tiles at level 4 and 12 tiles at level 5. The maximum you can get is therefore 21 tiles at level 4 and 30 tiles at level 5 with 30 Green present. So if you factor this in, here some thoughts about classic and modern in comparison: 12 Green AP: modern storm better because 12 vs 16 tiles with 2 AP to spare 20 Green AP: modern storm gets 32 tiles. If classic gets 4 or more Green AP with the first use of her skill , then she can use him again and gets 32 + tiles (but already used 4 of them) 30 Green AP: modern gets 48 tiles. Classic gets 48 tiles as well but has 6 Green AP at the end to spare. At the end of the day, although they sound much different the skills are generally the same at level 5. In my opinion (since 10 minutes ago when i started thinking about it) modern storm Green skill is even slightly ahead
Stormheart wrote: How exactly is Storm's Classic green power level 5 working? Does it overwrite previous levels, so I get only 1 tile for one AP, no more 6 additional tiles?
1. Having a max of 1 tempest trigger per team, per turn. 2. Changing the trigger such that it isn't 20% of allies health. I cannot say for now what the best solution is, but I will recommend it to be "Any time a teammate takes direct damage >50% of Storm's health". For a max level Storm with 2670 health, it comes up to 1335. That's a reasonable number. If you think that is high, just lower the percentage in trigger. I'm working with first principles here, not the actual damage figure. Also, a low leveled Storm may trigger more often due to her low health, but the damage done from it is likely to be smaller as well. This also eliminates the phenomenon of needing low health allies in the group. I'm keeping the damage per trigger per level the same, just reducing the frequency of triggering, which is the problem.
Bombul wrote: I agree with you, but I would just like to add on some points. The problem with Raging tempest isn't the damage, but how frequent it can be exploited to trigger. I posted the recommendations in the discussion forum, but I hope the Devs can pick it up: 1. Having a max of 1 tempest trigger per team, per turn. 2. Changing the trigger such that it isn't 20% of allies health. I cannot say for now what the best solution is, but I will recommend it to be "Any time a teammate takes direct damage >50% of Storm's health". For a max level Storm with 2670 health, it comes up to 1335. That's a reasonable number. If you think that is high, just lower the percentage in trigger. I'm working with first principles here, not the actual damage figure. Also, a low leveled Storm may trigger more often due to her low health, but the damage done from it is likely to be smaller as well. This also eliminates the phenomenon of needing low health allies in the group. I'm keeping the damage per trigger per level the same, just reducing the frequency of triggering, which is the problem.
Twanbon wrote: The problem with your suggestion is that you've created a situation where now there's an incentive to keep Storm as low level as possible. With your change, a low level Storm plus two big allies pretty much can't lose on the attack. Since your storm is low level, she'll pretty much never be put up front, and since her HP is low, pretty much every opponent attack will trigger tempest, creating a huge amount of free red AP for your big allies to smash face with. I insist that the main problem with the ability is generating large amounts of free AP, which eliminates any need for a variety in strategy (you don't have to adjust based on what color gems populate, you can always be guaranteed to have plenty of Red AP)
ihearthawthats wrote: I agree that it's OP but not necessarily bad for the game. It's one of the only ways for low levels to compete. Nerf her sure, but then give us alternatives.
forgrim wrote: one way to nerf it a little is to affect only the person being attacked, not the entire team.
Ranzera wrote: It's bad for the game both because it's basically become an exploit and also because it's killing team diversity(too many teams have classic storm on them). Both of those are bad for the game.
Bombul wrote: forgrim wrote: one way to nerf it a little is to affect only the person being attacked, not the entire team. I doubt that is the solution. We have to retain the core function of the skill, and reduce the frequency at which it triggers. The instant red AP gain is a bit excessive as well; at the very least make it such that you have to match them on the boards to get it. I wished the Devs came out with a response on Classic Storm, like "We're working on it" or something. Otherwise it's just hanging in the air. This, plus a few other character balances, are needed before the game can be out of preview stage.
derschlosss wrote: Dev should nerf your rag too
Ragnarok: 2 AP for a single target ~500 damage at high levelsClassic Storm: 0 AP for 1225 damage to entire team, total 3675 damage, with the chance of it triggering multiple times per turn! And it is available from the first turn! Yes, Ragnarok has low costs for good damage. But, it is a 3 star card that many have difficulty obtaining, and you really need to Iso level him a lot to be that monster (as with many other cards). There's some truth in him being better than other 3 star cards, but compared to 2 star Classic Storm (& two 1 star baits) which kicks every single **** out there (this is a different level of stratosphere altogether). I certainly don't see Ragnarok ending a battle in 3-5 turns no matter his level, which Classic Storm handily does.
Bombul wrote: If it isn't proof enough why Classic Storm needs to be changed, take a look at this "strategy" recommended (2nd post on the page). Every single strategy here is how to exploit Classic Storm. All everyone needs to know is how to exploit this game; no need to learn counters for various cards, or to deliberate on team combinations in different scenarios.viewtopic.php?f=7&t=165&start=440
Twanbon wrote: As someone whose played quite a few games competitively (mostly card and board games), there is a always a big problem with mechanics that allow you to "cheat" the resource system. In this game, the resource is AP. Every ability is balanced by an AP cost and the main way to gain AP is by matching gems. This allows the opponent to play a proactive defensive strategy by eliminating the gems your opponent needs, and conversely, you have to prioritize matching that color over others to make sure you have the requisite AP (for example, often it is the right move to make a single match of an important color than a 4-match or a 2-cascade of colors you don't need). Storms ability to generate free AP reliably cheats the resource system in a way that's too easily exploitable. To draw a parallel, if anyone's played Magic competitively before, Storm is the equivalent of having a bunch of Dark Rituals in your hand every game. It allows you to play a completely superior strategy than people generating resources the way the game is designed to. And there's a reason Magic stopped printing Dark Ritual, nowadays any mechanics that generate you additional resources, generally can't be played so quickly and require you to jump through some hoops first (ie, my suggestion for needing to have a certain number of yellow gems on the board to trigger).