** Storm (Classic) ** [PRE 2013-12]

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

Ranzera wrote:

I actually don't see a lot of high level ragnaroks. I saw a few but I just skipped them.

Do you not think this has something to do with c.Storm being easy to obtain and Ragnarok being hard to obtain? Factoring this in, I actually consider the Ragnarok:c.Storm ratio to be in Ragnarok's favour.

Being an easy to obtain exploit doesn't make it ok. What is your point exactly? I'm not here to talk about ragnarok. I'm here to give my 2 cents in good faith before I become part of the problem.

Unknown

I know the devs want to encourage the use of more heroes through this change, but it makes little sense to me to use lesser characters in ladder competitions as that will just invite more people to attack your team as they cycle through opponents to select.


I don't know why people are complaining about Classic Storm. Teams that run her are very easy to beat. You just focus on her first while you are building AP. Once she is cleared, you then have all your specials to eliminate the other two (quite often it's a high level Thor or Wolverine teamed with another 300 hp character)

I'd certainly rather face a Classic Storm team than a maxed out Modern Storm team. Modern Storm teams can be a nightmare if the AI gets lucky and gets a bunch of cascades early on.

Unknown

someone put it best, 'exploiting' storm's yellow ability makes you incredibly vulnerable to counterattack since as soon as you destroy storm, you have only one character to kill, not two. I use storm classic for board clearing and blue stun, not her yellow. If i see a storm with a level 2 character, that's exactly who i'm exploiting to get easy points. they can't possibly keep up there attacks replacing low level characters, and sooner or later, they'll run out of health.

unless its a tournament with a low level auto character that heals. than it's a different story, since they can infinite attack for a long time. still open to lots of attack in return.

(running juggernaut, classic storm, and thor in these tournaments)

Unknown

Ranzera wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

Ranzera wrote:

I actually don't see a lot of high level ragnaroks. I saw a few but I just skipped them.

Do you not think this has something to do with c.Storm being easy to obtain and Ragnarok being hard to obtain? Factoring this in, I actually consider the Ragnarok:c.Storm ratio to be in Ragnarok's favour.

Being an easy to obtain exploit doesn't make it ok. What is your point exactly? I'm not here to talk about ragnarok. I'm here to give my 2 cents in good faith before I become part of the problem.

Well there is balancing the game and balancing the meta-game. My point is that while c.Storm "dominates" the current meta-game ("dominates" in quotes because I actually don't think it's a problem), she is actually not the strongest character by a noticeable margin. Meta-game will evolve over time and I am fairly certain c.Storm will lose popularity. I don't see her as a big enough problem to force a premature exit on her.

How can you talk about balance and purposely ignore select characters or mechanics?

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

Ranzera wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

Ranzera wrote:

I actually don't see a lot of high level ragnaroks. I saw a few but I just skipped them.

Do you not think this has something to do with c.Storm being easy to obtain and Ragnarok being hard to obtain? Factoring this in, I actually consider the Ragnarok:c.Storm ratio to be in Ragnarok's favour.

Being an easy to obtain exploit doesn't make it ok. What is your point exactly? I'm not here to talk about ragnarok. I'm here to give my 2 cents in good faith before I become part of the problem.

Well there is balancing the game and balancing the meta-game. My point is that while c.Storm "dominates" the current meta-game ("dominates" in quotes because I actually don't think it's a problem), she is actually not the strongest character by a noticeable margin. Meta-game will evolve over time and I am fairly certain c.Storm will lose popularity. I don't see her as a big enough problem to force a premature exit on her.

How can you talk about balance and purposely ignore select characters or mechanics?

Ragnarok only needs a tweak to his red ap cost. Probably an increase of 1 or 2. There, I talked about him. Are you happy now?

Inever said she's hard to beat. I said she wins too fast. The only thing that matters in this tournament structure is win speed.

Unknown

Ranzera wrote:

Inever said she's hard to beat. I said she wins too fast. The only thing that matters in this tournament structure is win speed.

Not true. You can only attack 1 person at a time. Multiple people can attack you faster than you can attack them. If you have a throwaway character and c.Storm who is arguably a glass cannon, sure you may be able to kill faster, but they can kill you faster too.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

Ranzera wrote:

Inever said she's hard to beat. I said she wins too fast. The only thing that matters in this tournament structure is win speed.

Not true. You can only attack 1 person at a time. Multiple people can attack you faster than you can attack them. If you have a throwaway character and c.Storm who is arguably a glass cannon, sure you may be able to kill faster, but they can kill you faster too.

that's why people stick her with a high health bruiser, to slow down the counter attacks. Interestingly, ragnarok does well there, though Thor is more common.

Unknown

I think it's weird that the R41 discussion turned to a Classic Storm debate, but here's my experience. If you disagree please state how and why.

1. The C. Storm setup is weak in defence, but for those of you in the top ten for tournaments, haven't you experienced weak C. Storm teams with low ranks jumping you in the last hour of the tournament? Yes, you may be able to retaliate, but their team can down you for a lot more points. All they had were C. Storm and 2 weak baits, and that was enough to throw your 3 star team under the bus. It's not skill, by the way. If it was skill I'll acknowledge it.

2. Simply put, PvE tournaments. They can take down that fight with Daken/Bullseye under 2 minutes, sacrificing the generic given character. And, I take five mins. More than 50% in the PvE tourney are running this build, and they're taking top spots since there's no need for defence.

Is it an exploit? Or to put it in another way, can someone truly, hand over heart, tell me it isn't an exploit? Raging tempest hits the entire team for 1225 each, multiple times per turn, costing zero AP and generating a ton of red AP... surely isn't the original intent of the Devs.

We can all be civil and discuss this, but final say goes to the Devs. But please, allow me to make a prediction. If status quo remains for the next month or so, 80% or more of the players will run this build at least for PvE tournaments.

IceIX

Moving these posts here so that they're on topic and not derailing the R41 thread.

Unknown

unless its a given character (like that mission you brought up), its not really sustainable. your throwaway characters will die and need to be healed up and now that leveling up won't heal them, ur heal packs will be retardedly wasted.

or if you want to wait 5 minutes so they gain 1 life back to repeated, more power to you, but that's still 1 attempt every 5 minutes.some of this has been fixed by leveling up not healing characters.

yes, i've seen storm teams zooming up the ranks, but i've also seen storm teams zooming right back down the ranks, its a two way street. its all luck. if you zoom away to the top in the last ten minutes and don't get attacked, you win. if you do get attacked (or retaliated on) ur not in a good position.

MIND YOU, i run a classic storm in my team, but don't use throwaway characters (unless they are given to me like the venom one). Even then, it was hard for him to tank hits simply because he only tanked when i matched environments, then it became a guessing game on whether they even did enough damage to him to activate it.

This issue will fix itself the further we go in the game. You won't be running a classic storm and two throwaway characters into tournaments when everyone has high level characters since haha, ur two throwaway characters are dead and the enemy team is still standing. you are ****ed.

Unknown

Like I said in a different thread, I'd rather face a mid-level (40-60) Classic Storm than a maxed out Modern Storm. I can quickly wipe through Classic Storm in about 5-8 matches (with a boost), with little worry that she will get enough blue/green matches to trigger.

Modern storm on the other hand can easily reach 5 AP to trigger her environmental tile smasher which then can trigger a cascade of other matches. Next thing you know she is laying down attack tiles that all hit for -7, destroying the board with her green power which can feed her allies even more AP which they use to damage you even further.

A few times I have went from full health to dead because the AI got a few lucky cascades and kept it rolling.

Unknown

Classic storm is okay.

As many have noted, she sucks on defense. I have toyed with ousting her, and ai probably will in the future. I keep her around for her green skill, which I now have maxed. I know that I always hated going up against a modern storm with maxed green skill, so hopefully she uses that skill on defense.

My team is lvl 43 storm, lvl 58 thor, lvl 4x spiderman.

I use spiderman's maxed blue skill to perma stun the whole team, kill everyone with thor, use storm to generate ap and finally use spiderman's yellow to heal before the end of the match. I can play continuously while using very little heals.
It's fun, but not overly fast.

I've noticed no one complains about spiderman...
He stuns the entire enemy team for 6...

But anyway I digress, storms cool, but she's hardly amazing.
She's available and solid, especially when you are starting out.
Thor's pretty insane and he's readily available.
Ragnarok is riddiculous.

There's plenty of powerful characters.

Unknown

Also don't see the problem. With boosts you can 1shot her in first turn, awful defense. I'm farming storm teams for quick ranks atm. She's everywhere because everybody has the decks, there are much better chars but rarer. Only fix I would do is limit her yellow to once per turn.

Katai

I'm really confused as to how Classic Storm works. I'm not sure how you put the junk character in front to take damage?

I mean, let's say you have Ragnarok, C.Storm, and a Level 1 Hawkeye. How will Hawkeye go in front to take damage? He's unable to do any matches, so he'll never be in front to take the damage.

I see a lot of classic storm teams, but they're easy points for me since I can usually just stun her and hammer out of existence.

Unknown

Every character has good colors and bad colors. A low level character that is good in a color that no one else on your team is also good with will likely make the attack with that color.

Unknown

Katai wrote:

I'm really confused as to how Classic Storm works. I'm not sure how you put the junk character in front to take damage?

I mean, let's say you have Ragnarok, C.Storm, and a Level 1 Hawkeye. How will Hawkeye go in front to take damage? He's unable to do any matches, so he'll never be in front to take the damage.

I see a lot of classic storm teams, but they're easy points for me since I can usually just stun her and hammer out of existence.

Environment tiles.

Unknown

Personally, I think that Storm is more or less fine as she is - perhaps reduce the Red AP gain as that's what accelerates the initial damage into the combo engine?

Honestly, I think the bigger problem is that there are several heroes with weak abilities - if some of these were made a bit stronger, then maybe we wouldn't see Thor and Storm all the time. The stronger characters (Storm, Ragnarok, probably Wolverine and Spiderman, maybe Thor) need slight tweaks - mainly around addressing undercosted abilities - Raging Tempest costs 0 AP, Thunderclap and All Tied Up 2 AP, Feral Slash 3 AP. But after that I'd rather see the floor raised than the ceiling lowered any further. Then maybe that Loki prize would be worth fighting for!

Thor is an edge case because his abilities are more expensive, they just work really well as a combo engine by cycling Red > Yellow > Green (which then powers up Storm). When he's not getting 4-5 free Red AP a couple of times off of Storm, I think he's OK - as evidenced by how easy it is to take these teams down when they are defending.

Unknown

I'm running classic storm because she's 2 stars and free. I've gotten no 3 or 4 star characters in sufficient quantity to level, and the only 2 stars I've gotten in similar quantity are wolverine (who is also on my team) and captain america (who is apparently running pre-super soldier serum based on his performance).

Unknown

captain america on a apples to apples level to level comparison to thor is just hilarious. the damage and health disparity is huge, although captain america does more damage with basic matching. so he's a great tank on offense, soaking up everyone's damage while thor just hammers and thunder calls and does his damage.

should see my juggernaut team on defense, captain america, juggernaut, and thor. they match their strongest colors usually and if you take juggernaut down as fast as you can, you still got thor hammering away.

or at least i'm hoping my team is doing that on defense, i haven't gotten attacked really with this team.

Unknown

How exactly does this power activate? I'm a bit confused...
I know that it is 1 attack that takes at least 20%. I was just hit by a Repulsor Blast... only to survive but not trigger the ability? Needless to say that was a turning point and I ended up losing.