*** Sentry (Dark Avengers) ***

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Comments

  • Lycra wrote:
    LoreNYC wrote:
    So, Need to be nerfed? Probably. Likelihood that he be nerfed? Very. Does it matter in the end? No Because they'll just release another sentry with piss-poor pre-release testing. But the feeling that he's OP would diminish if he couldn't start every match 90% on his way to getting off his abilities.

    It'll matter to Flo98. Sentry's the only play that muppet's got.

    I'm still wondering exactly what the appeal is to running a roster with only 3 chars (Lacken, Sentry, Fury), plus whatever scrubs he gets from a win such as modern Storm.

    Has Ice ever come out and confirmed that manipulating roster size and/or total number of levels screws with MMR significantly?
  • kensterrkensterr Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    LoreNYC wrote:
    I was ready to say there was a clear D3 formula here: Release severely OP character. Everyone buys character. Month or 2 later, neuter said character and release an even better one. Unfortunately the bump in the road called Storm happened so maybe that's just to throw us off. But anyone who thinks Sentry isn't too fast is completely delusional. But the real problem isn't the character or any of them rather the fact that you can pre-buff just about any skill to being 1-2 turns from using right at the start. And that you can do this repeatedly over and over if you are willing to buy the win and shield up.

    I agree with this because from history (I might miss out on some, if so please correct me)
    Rags - Thoverine - Black Panther - Spidey - Magneto (soon). Characters which are overly used, have cheap costs, too much damage, or infinite combo, will be nerfed once they sold x amount of covers. Or when their data show that the combo has been way overused for quick wins.
  • kerravon wrote:
    No nerf needed for Sentry. Plenty of counters are already in game. People just haven't figured it out yet.

    Spideys protect tiles. Cmags protect tiles. Classic Storms yellow. Hulks anger. Bullseyes protect tiles. OBWs blue.

    Any of those and World Rupture can either do next to no damage or can actually down his own team.

    Yes if someone uses boosts they can down a team very fast but that can be said for a lot of characters.

    Come again? We're talking about Sentry on offense, AI on defense, what "people" figure out does not apply as long as you don't have the option to teach the AI.
  • On a different note, Sentry should deal to the team fraction of the *actual* damage issued on the opponent, not having one part boosted and the self-stuff kept at base. IUC that is the way fitting the character nature really. (Along with fixing Hulk smash to be full trample...)

    That would not really address the original problem we discuss but add some big deal to its run cost.
  • Teke184 wrote:
    Lycra wrote:
    LoreNYC wrote:
    So, Need to be nerfed? Probably. Likelihood that he be nerfed? Very. Does it matter in the end? No Because they'll just release another sentry with piss-poor pre-release testing. But the feeling that he's OP would diminish if he couldn't start every match 90% on his way to getting off his abilities.

    It'll matter to Flo98. Sentry's the only play that muppet's got.

    I'm still wondering exactly what the appeal is to running a roster with only 3 chars (Lacken, Sentry, Fury), plus whatever scrubs he gets from a win such as modern Storm.

    Has Ice ever come out and confirmed that manipulating roster size and/or total number of levels screws with MMR significantly?

    Kaka's second account - he has one PC and one Mobile - while his battery died, Flo98 was sitting low, then he got it replaced and bam. No need invest more in an account where the only purpose is to boost the scores of everyone else in the alliance through timed hopping.

    Besides who really would want a 133 Lthor cluttering up their window . . .
  • Vanapak wrote:
    LThor basically only need 12 Yellow to feed into his Green, which will most likely win most fights once you get it.

    The OP was not about general "win" the game but to win it in a handful of turns. Yes, LT's yellow will put you good halfway to victory, but the other half then may take another 3 minutes. Those using LT pretty well know that after COTS you're mostly ran out of fuel and have to defeat the remnants from scratch (similar problem with BP). A regular team to defeat has 7+6+6k hp as baseline, you calculated with something different. Sentry nukes all of that with the y+g combo if it can fully execute.
  • JessyC01 wrote:
    Absolutely, but it doesn't need to be anything that dramatic. As previously mentioned, I like the idea of increasing the cost of his green and yellow, or just reducing damage.

    Unfortunately that would eviscerate the otherwise very interesting character. (One not fitting at all to my play and roleplay styles, but I would consider it a real miss to see him crippled, especially as the real problem is boosts and general attack/defense imbalance)
  • Teke184 wrote:
    Lycra wrote:
    LoreNYC wrote:
    So, Need to be nerfed? Probably. Likelihood that he be nerfed? Very. Does it matter in the end? No Because they'll just release another sentry with piss-poor pre-release testing. But the feeling that he's OP would diminish if he couldn't start every match 90% on his way to getting off his abilities.

    It'll matter to Flo98. Sentry's the only play that muppet's got.

    I'm still wondering exactly what the appeal is to running a roster with only 3 chars (Lacken, Sentry, Fury), plus whatever scrubs he gets from a win such as modern Storm.

    Has Ice ever come out and confirmed that manipulating roster size and/or total number of levels screws with MMR significantly?

    Even if it does, the last thing Flo would want is a low MMR. Coz then he'll have to fight lots of matches before seeing Kakko (off whom he shield hops). Besides, his MMR should be sky high regardless. Ain't no tanking gonna be done with 3 toons! icon_lol.gif
  • Xeonic-IceXeonic-Ice Posts: 176
    The speed of sentry is not sustainable without boosting and buying health packs. You can boost your way to those quick 1 min matches but that only lasts a short time because you WILL need to heal your team.

    With a boosted Punisher/OBW team, I can win matches almost as fast without any of the downside and come out fully healed.

    I even lost a match with a boosted Sentry from OBW getting 2 purple matches, stealing my AP, then using anti grav after I placed World Rupture countdowns on the board.
  • Xeonic-Ice wrote:
    The speed of sentry is not sustainable without boosting and buying health packs. You can boost your way to those quick 1 min matches but that only lasts a short time because you WILL need to heal your team.

    With a boosted Punisher/OBW team, I can win matches almost as fast without any of the downside and come out fully healed.

    I even lost a match with a boosted Sentry from OBW getting 2 purple matches, stealing my AP, then using anti grav after I placed World Rupture countdowns on the board.


    Daken heals, the free character is full every battle, so the über-wallet that is Flo always boosts and buys health packs. The only way they know how to play is PAY HARD! (Definitely not play smart or play hard unless your game is paying a ton of money to be at vegas with 0 chance of winning at vegas) It's too bad that they stopping buying points at 1500 or they might have juicy 2nd place trophy on their wall of temporary internal fame.

    Of course the board has fu*ked everyone once or twice in a million matches so you can get a first turn bad-luck cascade wipe but atleast when you have unlimited health packs, all you lose is points. . . Or do you?
  • danikalildanikalil Age Unconfirmed Posts: 502
    This is being discussed in a MPQ FB page too Marvel Puzzle Quest - Players Group . A player posted this video there:
    Chuck Barry: How to win with Sentry in under a minute.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0b-iAzq84..
  • JamieMadroxJamieMadrox Posts: 1,798 Chairperson of the Boards
    danikalil wrote:
    This is being discussed in a MPQ FB page too Marvel Puzzle Quest - Players Group . A player posted this video there:
    Chuck Barry: How to win with Sentry in under a minute.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0b-iAzq84..
    The video was posted on YouTube by Bugpop from S.H.I.E.L.D.
  • TheHueyFreemanTheHueyFreeman Age Unconfirmed Posts: 472 Mover and Shaker
    Bugpop wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Bugpop wrote:
    It doesnt take a whole lot to frustrate sentry's world rupture. The exploit is to rush in before opponent can mount a proper defense.

    I would like to propose a possible solution to many of the frustrations of exploits. The defending team recieves less damage by a percentage of their value. A 25 point team recieves 25 percent less damage. A 50 point team recieves 50 percent less damage.

    Think about how that would change the metagame.

    There are very few viable characters in PvP that can defend effectively against World Rupture. It's pretty much Daken and Magneto and that's it. Daken is the only viable PvP character that can put a large number of special tiles, and Magneto is the only character with a board clearing move that costs less than World Rupture. Sure a Thunder Strike or Thunderous Clap will probably clear up World Rupture too, but both moves are more expensive than World Rapture to use so it's hardly a reliable defense.

    And I don't think it's necessary to have a strong defense against World Rupture as long as you can't abuse strike tiles with it.

    Casting team's strike tiles increase damage dealt to casting team. (Hulk should be angry with sentry, not enemy team)

    If you made strike tiles affect the caster, anger could trigger an infinite loop that always ends the match in the player's favor. D3 would never let something so unbalanced pass.
  • Sentry's only broken due to how strike tiles interact with World Rupture. Without that, he could be considered as a standard P2W character like Thor and it's not clear to me whether it's intended for characters to be as powerful as Thor exist.

    Sentry is still broken overall. He's just especially broken with boosts. You can still do exactly the same thing without boosts, and sure it takes 2 more matches of each color but it doesn't change the fact that his team kill moves have a base cost of 7/8 which is far easier to reach than say 14 for Call the Storm or 12 for Rage of the Panther, and neither can kill a high end team in one shot. Also check out Bugpop's video showing how all the tiles are frozen in place when you use Intimidation to pop them, which ensures there's no chance of destroying your own Sacrifice which is the only significant weakness to this strategy.

    At any rate if Sentry needs additional nerf he should simply have all his ability scaled back, namely less damage to himself and less damage to the enemy team.
  • WilliamK99 wrote:
    JessyC01 wrote:
    Absolutely, but it doesn't need to be anything that dramatic. As previously mentioned, I like the idea of increasing the cost of his green and yellow, or just reducing damage.

    The problem with these devs is they go straight for the jugular, crippling characters that only needed minor adjustments...I have no confidence that they will do anything but destroy sentry... Those calling for a nerf just remember this when the next released character is OPed then nerfed, and then the next, and the next after that....

    quoted for truth. I havent really wanted to put money into this game (and havent) since the spiderman nerf. Mag will be terrible as well I'm sure. I understand why this thread was created. But I would much prefer we all discuss characters that need positive adjustments rather than the ones that need to be destroyed all the time.
  • I agree with the shield costs but I think they need to vary up PVP and have set rules for particular events like no shield use PVP, restricted rosters, time challenges and different game modes with interacting environments. Would mean more variety at the top and will allow those with the right teams and skill to shine. If I am honest the guys who spend huge sums of HP are insane and their scores don't actually reflect any skill apart from the coordination of shield hopping. If I wanted to burn starks I would hit 3000. I always have a HP limit and I always have to break even come the end of the week. this one shield hop routine and then selling your covers makes no sense to me but I get that itch of wanting to be the best.
  • Professa DProfessa D Age Unconfirmed Posts: 111
    danikalil wrote:
    This is being discussed in a MPQ FB page too Marvel Puzzle Quest - Players Group . A player posted this video there:
    Chuck Barry: How to win with Sentry in under a minute.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0b-iAzq84..

    Wow, just...wow. I mean I understood logically how this sequence worked in theory but watching it happen and down such a high HP team really drives the point home that something is a bit...off. Definitely skews the PvP mechanics and metagame for sure.
  • Lycra wrote:
    Teke184 wrote:
    Lycra wrote:
    LoreNYC wrote:
    So, Need to be nerfed? Probably. Likelihood that he be nerfed? Very. Does it matter in the end? No Because they'll just release another sentry with piss-poor pre-release testing. But the feeling that he's OP would diminish if he couldn't start every match 90% on his way to getting off his abilities.

    It'll matter to Flo98. Sentry's the only play that muppet's got.

    I'm still wondering exactly what the appeal is to running a roster with only 3 chars (Lacken, Sentry, Fury), plus whatever scrubs he gets from a win such as modern Storm.

    Has Ice ever come out and confirmed that manipulating roster size and/or total number of levels screws with MMR significantly?

    Even if it does, the last thing Flo would want is a low MMR. Coz then he'll have to fight lots of matches before seeing Kakko (off whom he shield hops). Besides, his MMR should be sky high regardless. Ain't no tanking gonna be done with 3 toons! icon_lol.gif


    you know, maybe it's just me but has anyone ever actually been hit by flo!?! I always see him in nodes randomly when i catch him for the 30 seconds he unshields but He has never attacked me....Who is he beating up to get up that high?
  • JamieMadroxJamieMadrox Posts: 1,798 Chairperson of the Boards
    sms4002 wrote:
    you know, maybe it's just me but has anyone ever actually been hit by flo!?! I always see him in nodes randomly when i catch him for the 30 seconds he unshields but He has never attacked me....Who is he beating up to get up that high?
    The running theory is that they only hit each other (X-Men) and climb the ranks that way. Nobody really wants to hit them so they can go as high as they want uncontested.
  • Xeonic-IceXeonic-Ice Posts: 176
    Professa D wrote:
    danikalil wrote:
    This is being discussed in a MPQ FB page too Marvel Puzzle Quest - Players Group . A player posted this video there:
    Chuck Barry: How to win with Sentry in under a minute.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0b-iAzq84..

    Wow, just...wow. I mean I understood logically how this sequence worked in theory but watching it happen and down such a high HP team really drives the point home that something is a bit...off. Definitely skews the PvP mechanics and metagame for sure.

    While that video showcases everything going perfectly, it's by no means the norm. You need to be fully boosted, but that opens you up to OBW wrecking your day because you now have blue/purple she can steal. Also, each time you let World Rupture go off, your team loses roughly 1k hp, and Sentry loses 2k hp. So even if you have Daken self healing and use the throwaway featured hero, you're going to burn through health packs to keep Sentry going. I wiped a number of times climbing the leaderboards for Webslinger using Sentry/Hood/Spidey.

    Don't get me wrong, Sentry is very powerful and can be fast for sure, but there are many ways to lose with him if you don't get a good board or if you're careless for even a single turn. I don't believe he needs to be nerfed because the upkeep is high. He's fantastic to get those quick boosted matches in before the swarm of endless attacks come pouring in, but not sustainable without spending lots of HP. Sentry is at least interesting to play with his unstable power levels.

    If boosts weren't able to be purchased, and instead only earned, it might be a better solution than nerfing Sentry. But Demiurge likely won't do that because it generates revenue.
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