Winter Wonderland Vault is live

bluewolf

If anyone spends money they get a pass for a lot of nefarious activity. Facts.

The % of folks who spend is a tiny fraction and keep the game running so boxing them so they can’t spend because they messed with timers is bad for business.

Anyway obviously they can’t plug the hole. The game was set up to minimize server traffic which probably helps keep costs minimal which is why it’s still here despite everything.

It’s not worth getting mad about. Enjoy it or not based on your experience. They aren’t about to overhaul the game at this point.

DAZ0273

@bluewolf said:
If anyone spends money they get a pass for a lot of nefarious activity. Facts.

The % of folks who spend is a tiny fraction and keep the game running so boxing them so they can’t spend because they messed with timers is bad for business.

Anyway obviously they can’t plug the hole. The game was set up to minimize server traffic which probably helps keep costs minimal which is why it’s still here despite everything.

It’s not worth getting mad about. Enjoy it or not based on your experience. They aren’t about to overhaul the game at this point.

So you are saying nobody but this select tiny percentage ever spends anything on the game? And this tiny percentage controls the Devs with such financial leverage that they are literally allowed to cheat with no consequences?

Reminds me of that line from The Wedding Singer: "And as we let out first class passengers do pretty much whatever they like". Well just remember - if you tolerate this, then Adam Sandler will be next.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
If anyone spends money they get a pass for a lot of nefarious activity. Facts.

The % of folks who spend is a tiny fraction and keep the game running so boxing them so they can’t spend because they messed with timers is bad for business.

Anyway obviously they can’t plug the hole. The game was set up to minimize server traffic which probably helps keep costs minimal which is why it’s still here despite everything.

It’s not worth getting mad about. Enjoy it or not based on your experience. They aren’t about to overhaul the game at this point.

This hasn't been my experience at all. They won't talk about cheating or punishments and they are pretty inconsistent about all of it, but I've known cheaters who spent (often A LOT) and were sandboxed/rolled back etc.

Do you have specific examples of cases where players did the same thing and were punished or not punished based on spending?

bluewolf

Do I have specific examples? Not off hand. But there are people who are known to have done stuff with time traveling and still are here.

Note I was specifically talking about sandboxing and not rolling back. They may or may not roll a significant spender back but I don’t think they’ll be sandboxed at this point. At most they would get a warning.

I suppose if someone actually hacked the game and gave themselves a ton of 6* shards they might box them. I’m not sure what’s involved in time traveling exactly but I suspect it’s a bit less involved than altering the resources for the account since basically you’re telling the game you can get the daily deal again instead of waiting to the next day.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
Do I have specific examples? Not off hand. But there are people who are known to have done stuff with time traveling and still are here.

Note I was specifically talking about sandboxing and not rolling back. They may or may not roll a significant spender back but I don’t think they’ll be sandboxed at this point. At most they would get a warning.

I suppose if someone actually hacked the game and gave themselves a ton of 6* shards they might box them. I’m not sure what’s involved in time traveling exactly but I suspect it’s a bit less involved than altering the resources for the account since basically you’re telling the game you can get the daily deal again instead of waiting to the next day.

Massive aside -- rollbacks are often a more significant punishment than sandboxing, since the rolled-back player sticks around with (oftentimes a MUCH) weaker roster. Eating a rollback from "everybody is 550" to "I have some 450s now" usually causes the player to quit anyway, because they can't win stuff anymore. (Yes, this has happened, and OMG it's the best).

Even less significant rollbacks are preferable to sandboxing for me, because they still allow for (repeated, often hilarious) revenge. You guys might not care about winning, but players who are cheating to win certainly do! When they lose all their good stuff, we get to beat them up. They usually don't stick around long after that.

When a player is sandboxed they're just gone forever, and we can't do anything to them anymore. Forcing them to quit is much more satisfying.

Anyway, unless you know of specific players who did the same thing and got different punishments, I don't know how you can claim that they're treating spenders differently.

Codex

Kudos for whomever discovered the time traveling "bug". Is this another benefit of unity or has it being going on before unity?

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:
Do I have specific examples? Not off hand. But there are people who are known to have done stuff with time traveling and still are here.

Note I was specifically talking about sandboxing and not rolling back. They may or may not roll a significant spender back but I don’t think they’ll be sandboxed at this point. At most they would get a warning.

I suppose if someone actually hacked the game and gave themselves a ton of 6* shards they might box them. I’m not sure what’s involved in time traveling exactly but I suspect it’s a bit less involved than altering the resources for the account since basically you’re telling the game you can get the daily deal again instead of waiting to the next day.

Massive aside -- rollbacks are often a more significant punishment than sandboxing, since the rolled-back player sticks around with (oftentimes a MUCH) weaker roster. Eating a rollback from "everybody is 550" to "I have some 450s now" usually causes the player to quit anyway, because they can't win stuff anymore. (Yes, this has happened, and OMG it's the best).

Even less significant rollbacks are preferable to sandboxing for me, because they still allow for (repeated, often hilarious) revenge. You guys might not care about winning, but players who are cheating to win certainly do! When they lose all their good stuff, we get to beat them up. They usually don't stick around long after that.

When a player is sandboxed they're just gone forever, and we can't do anything to them anymore. Forcing them to quit is much more satisfying.

Anyway, unless you know of specific players who did the same thing and got different punishments, I don't know how you can claim that they're treating spenders differently.

They should use the player names of sandboxed players and make them into seed team inserts! That way they can be collectively punished by the rest of the player base over and over again! 😁

DAZ0273

@Codex said:
Kudos for whomever discovered the time traveling "bug". Is this another benefit of unity or has it being going on before unity?

@Chrynos1989 references 10th Anniversary so presumably not new. I blame Metal Gear Solid 3, time travel shenanigans became popular there (not for me though, I bagged The End legit 😎)

entrailbucket

@Codex said:
Kudos for whomever discovered the time traveling "bug". Is this another benefit of unity or has it being going on before unity?

Yeah, so it's not like these people are hacker supergeniuses. Mod edit - cheat tactic removed. It's been a thing forever.

bluewolf

There are other players who know about the people who cheated and got a slap on the wrist. In every case they are obviously spenders. I am just not able to name them because honestly I don’t care.

It’s just good business to keep the people who spend actual money on your goods that have no use outside your walled garden and cost you nothing to make “more of” around.

bluewolf

In any case the vault came back as a non-resetting one so you can only buy it once. You have 10 days so you can buy 10 packs and a single each day for the daily deal and clear it if you want, and you have 5700 hp to spare.

DAZ0273

@bluewolf said:
There are other players who know about the people who cheated and got a slap on the wrist. In every case they are obviously spenders. I am just not able to name them because honestly I don’t care.

It’s just good business to keep the people who spend actual money on your goods that have no use outside your walled garden and cost you nothing to make “more of” around.

I could not be understanding this but you seem to be describing bribery/ financial leverage and you are an accomplice?!?! Lol, what is this, a Mafia movie?!?!? 😄

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
There are other players who know about the people who cheated and got a slap on the wrist. In every case they are obviously spenders. I am just not able to name them because honestly I don’t care.

It’s just good business to keep the people who spend actual money on your goods that have no use outside your walled garden and cost you nothing to make “more of” around.

I don't disagree that people who spend money should be treated differently, but this idea that "spenders do whatever they want and nothing happens" isn't true and hasn't ever been true.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:
Do I have specific examples? Not off hand. But there are people who are known to have done stuff with time traveling and still are here.

Note I was specifically talking about sandboxing and not rolling back. They may or may not roll a significant spender back but I don’t think they’ll be sandboxed at this point. At most they would get a warning.

I suppose if someone actually hacked the game and gave themselves a ton of 6* shards they might box them. I’m not sure what’s involved in time traveling exactly but I suspect it’s a bit less involved than altering the resources for the account since basically you’re telling the game you can get the daily deal again instead of waiting to the next day.

Massive aside -- rollbacks are often a more significant punishment than sandboxing, since the rolled-back player sticks around with (oftentimes a MUCH) weaker roster. Eating a rollback from "everybody is 550" to "I have some 450s now" usually causes the player to quit anyway, because they can't win stuff anymore. (Yes, this has happened, and OMG it's the best).

Even less significant rollbacks are preferable to sandboxing for me, because they still allow for (repeated, often hilarious) revenge. You guys might not care about winning, but players who are cheating to win certainly do! When they lose all their good stuff, we get to beat them up. They usually don't stick around long after that.

When a player is sandboxed they're just gone forever, and we can't do anything to them anymore. Forcing them to quit is much more satisfying.

Anyway, unless you know of specific players who did the same thing and got different punishments, I don't know how you can claim that they're treating spenders differently.

They should use the player names of sandboxed players and make them into seed team inserts! That way they can be collectively punished by the rest of the player base over and over again! 😁

I know it's impossible for you guys to imagine, but there are players who actually care about winning stuff, and the players who cheat often really, really care about winning stuff. That's why they're cheating!

So punishing them by removing their ability to win stuff is a real thing, and turning their roster into a punching bag is a way worse punishment than just banning them outright.

Scofie

Can we please not spell out how the cheaters have cheated. I'm sure this is "common knowledge" amongst some, but let's not share it any wider, eh?

Oh yeah, it's also against the forum rules. So.... stop.

bluewolf

I mean I'm not saying there isn't a line that can be crossed but other players know about multiple instances over the years where a rollback occurred or a warning was issued.

I think if you get boxed the most common situation is that you are an account that hasn't spent, or spent little, and have fairly minimal community engagement if any, and went over the top with a vault or whatever.

I mean sure if you maybe spent on VIP or a costume last month and then you went in and gave yourself 1 million hp to clear the first WW vault and got Cosmic Spidey they would probably box you regardless.

If you do something less egregious and spend a good amount regularly they will probably negotiate with you.

I think it also depends on how deep under the hood you went, like when they threatened people with rollbacks for the token farming in July, no one got rolled back that we are aware of.

It's a very old video game, and looking at recent alliance counts we are down thousands of players from pre-Unity, and they want to keep highly engaged spenders in the game if they can. It's as simple as that.

entrailbucket

@Scofie said:
Can we please not spell out how the cheaters have cheated. I'm sure this is "common knowledge" amongst some, but let's not share it any wider, eh?

Oh yeah, it's also against the forum rules. So.... stop.

Sorry. This is one where it's just really hard to talk about it at all without talking about the exploit.

JoeHandle

@Codex said:
Kudos for whomever discovered the time traveling "bug". Is this another benefit of unity or has it being going on before unity?

Time shifting is a basic exploit tactic. Universal in networked/distributed games. Has been applied to MPQ in various ways since it launched.

Scofie

We'll call it the time travel exploit and be done with it. 🙂

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
I mean I'm not saying there isn't a line that can be crossed but other players know about multiple instances over the years where a rollback occurred or a warning was issued.

I think if you get boxed the most common situation is that you are an account that hasn't spent, or spent little, and have fairly minimal community engagement if any, and went over the top with a vault or whatever.

I mean sure if you maybe spent on VIP or a costume last month and then you went in and gave yourself 1 million hp to clear the first WW vault and got Cosmic Spidey they would probably box you regardless.

If you do something less egregious and spend a good amount regularly they will probably negotiate with you.

I think it also depends on how deep under the hood you went, like when they threatened people with rollbacks for the token farming in July, no one got rolled back that we are aware of.

It's a very old video game, and looking at recent alliance counts we are down thousands of players from pre-Unity, and they want to keep highly engaged spenders in the game if they can. It's as simple as that.

If you think rollbacks are a "slap on the wrist," then that's just wrong. Again, like, I know it's impossible to imagine anyone caring about winning stuff, but they're cheating because they care about winning! Being rolled back months or years is a big deal.

It's also worth noting that if you eat a rollback to, say, last year, any actual money you spent during that time is just gone forever. You don't get a refund and that progress disappears.

It's often a significantly worse punishment for these players than just a ban or sandboxing would be.