Marvel Puzzle Quest: Character Rebalances - Batch #1

Bustapup

@WhiteBomber said:
Everyone already knows who the next people are to be nerfed. They said it before, they also said there shouldn't be any surprise characters (and there aren't, yet).

Here is you list of next to be nerfed (in no specific order):

1. MThor
2. IronMay
3. Maybe ShangChi

If they're smart, they'll add Sam5 to that list also (it's not Juggernauts fault).

I refuse to believe people don't see how far out of balance any these characters are. So, I will just assume everyone is more just frustrated about their investments, which is valid, they never should have let them go this long unchecked, and they have a rough history with balancing.

MThor absolutely needs to be nerfed as she is just universally a pain in the **** on ANY team she's in and can solo carry.

I'm not sure about Shang Chi for 2 main reasons

1. Without fantasticar his threat is immediately reduced

2. There are enough characters that can counter him. Ascended Juggs/Shaw and 5* Colossus can all withstand his match damage long enough to K.O him and with protect tiles thrown in, you can quickly get to a position where he just isn't doing any damage at all.

May I'm unsure of as well. Again, without leapfrog or something that protects her you can easily take her out of the fight. The problem she has is that too many supports allow the characters she's boosting to immediately pop off on turn one and kill you or do so much damage you can't realistically recover (Omega Red, Nova, M'Baku/Namor combo etc).

In fact so many characters are what they are because of specific supports which is why I think they've ruined the game completely and created huge issues but that's a WHOOOOOOLE other rant. I'm so bored of seeing Franky teams that start the match with like 12 green AP because even characters that could usually counter her turn one are useless (I use Killgrave's blue and Sunspots Purple to stop her using green straight away when I can)

May's kit is great for obvious reasons but without protection she can be dealt with so I'm not SURE she should be nerfed .... Maybe her 5* utility needs to be reduced?

Bustapup

@Seph1roth5 said:

@WhiteBomber said:
Everyone already knows who the next people are to be nerfed. They said it before, they also said there shouldn't be any surprise characters (and there aren't, yet).

Here is you list of next to be nerfed (in no specific order):

1. MThor
2. IronMay
3. Maybe ShangChi

If they're smart, they'll add Sam5 to that list also (it's not Juggernauts fault).

I refuse to believe people don't see how far out of balance any these characters are. So, I will just assume everyone is more just frustrated about their investments, which is valid, they never should have let them go this long unchecked, and they have a rough history with balancing.

I think a lot of people agree that SC is very strong, but not very worrisome. The computer uses his powers stupidly, so he's usually not great on defense. I used to use him all the time when I was new to scl10, but since then...very rarely. If they have numbers that he's being used a lot it's more people with crummier rosters lol, or new people that have been told (rightly) by everyone to make him their first 5* champ.

Also, I think juggs is definitely the bigger problem in the juggs/sam combo. Yeah omega and others can do aoe damage reliably, but juggs can do it multiple times a turn. And he's so damn beefy you kind of have to take down Sam first and hope it's not too late. With other teams, you can take out the aoe person (or OR's CD) first.

To take on Sam/Juggs, the core pairing I use is Electro and an ascended HagAtha (if you have her).

For your third slot, I go with Colossus to soak the early hits, or Captain Britain to either nuke the whole enemy team with her purple or use her yellow to take Juggs out of the fight.

Electro and HagAtha are great together against Juggs or any AoE. With all that yellow, HagAtha can immediately overwrite Sam's strike tiles with Protect tiles, which then get buffed every single turn. If you use a partner like BRB, those Protect tiles are getting buffed straight away.

My main issue with this enemy team is usually supports. If Juggs has the Thanos-copter and gets a cascade on the first turn, I'm usually toast anyway

I would much rather they remove all supports from the game entirely before they start nerfing all these characters or at least give players game modes where they are banned. I only really enjoy SHIELD SIM and it would be 10x better without supports.

entrailbucket

@Bustapup said:

@WhiteBomber said:
Everyone already knows who the next people are to be nerfed. They said it before, they also said there shouldn't be any surprise characters (and there aren't, yet).

Here is you list of next to be nerfed (in no specific order):

1. MThor
2. IronMay
3. Maybe ShangChi

If they're smart, they'll add Sam5 to that list also (it's not Juggernauts fault).

I refuse to believe people don't see how far out of balance any these characters are. So, I will just assume everyone is more just frustrated about their investments, which is valid, they never should have let them go this long unchecked, and they have a rough history with balancing.

MThor absolutely needs to be nerfed as she is just universally a pain in the **** on ANY team she's in and can solo carry.

I'm not sure about Shang Chi for 2 main reasons

1. Without fantasticar his threat is immediately reduced

2. There are enough characters that can counter him. Ascended Juggs/Shaw and 5* Colossus can all withstand his match damage long enough to K.O him and with protect tiles thrown in, you can quickly get to a position where he just isn't doing any damage at all.

May I'm unsure of as well. Again, without leapfrog or something that protects her you can easily take her out of the fight. The problem she has is that too many supports allow the characters she's boosting to immediately pop off on turn one and kill you or do so much damage you can't realistically recover (Omega Red, Nova, M'Baku/Namor combo etc).

In fact so many characters are what they are because of specific supports which is why I think they've ruined the game completely and created huge issues but that's a WHOOOOOOLE other rant. I'm so bored of seeing Franky teams that start the match with like 12 green AP because even characters that could usually counter her turn one are useless (I use Killgrave's blue and Sunspots Purple to stop her using green straight away when I can)

May's kit is great for obvious reasons but without protection she can be dealt with so I'm not SURE she should be nerfed .... Maybe her 5* utility needs to be reduced?

I think they have to do something to May before big Galactuses start running around. Right now her health boost is permanent, so the fact that she has low HP doesn't matter -- killing her doesn't do anything. With her around it'd be trivial to push his HP over a million, and he keeps the same damage reduction power.

The fix I proposed would take care of her ascension problems too, in one shot. They should change her so that her buff % varies based on the tier of character she's buffing, not her own tier.

As for Shang-Chi, I believe they're now targeting characters that are too strong on offense, which is something they used to do all the time and something that most other games do too.

Borstock

Shang isn't even THAT fast against teams with a defense buff. I literally can't remember the last time I lost to a Shang-Chi team. (yes, I know that's them on defense and not really what eb is talking about)

ArchusMonk

@Borstock said:
Shang isn't even THAT fast against teams with a defense buff. I literally can't remember the last time I lost to a Shang-Chi team. (yes, I know that's them on defense and not really what eb is talking about)

How about the last time you got red from a Shang team? Maybe that’s a better question. I can’t remember when that would have been for me. I also can’t remember the last time I’ve used Shang in PVP or PvE, so I wouldn’t even notice a nerf personally.

cooperbigdaddy

@Gymp28 said:

@cooperbigdaddy said:
I understand some folks don't want to see the same folks in PVP all the time, but I feel like increasing difficulty on PVE at the same time of taking away powerful characters make it feel like "You are supposed to lose" all over again.

But I think my biggest complaint is now I'm scared to open packs because my faves might be nerfed into oblivion, wasting my pulls.

If you’re worried about this, why don’t you favourite someone else who hasn’t been floated as a potential nerf target, and continue opening packs?
There are lots of good options that will help you beat the new SCL10.
What does your current roster look like? (what stage of the game are you at?)
Happy to offer some suggestions, or you can check out the ascension thread?
Frankly it looks like the combo of Red Skull, Zemo and Zola will be pretty beefy once RS hits LLs

I'm currently with all 4s championed, working on dupes of Polaris/Juggs/R&G. I have all 5s rostered, many at 13 covers and the potential to get enough shards (with tokens) to bring any 5* to 13 covers.

Also, I think I'm coming off angrier than I am, I just was excited for my first ascension (Polaris) soon, but I guess I'll still focus on her since she's not nerfed to absolute death.

WhiteBomber

For the sake of better understanding one of the large reasons behind these nerfs (we seem to keep ignoring), lets maybe answer some questions:

Below is a list of the 5stars (not even considering other star levels) that share Red and Pink with Shang Chi.

• How many of the characters below do you choose or see chosen in PVP?
• Which of the characters below would you regularly choose over Shang in PVE?
• Which of these characters can come close to Shang's damage, healing or value per turn?

1. Yelena Belova (Black Widow)
2. Wong (Sorcerer Supreme)
3. Winter Soldier (Thunderbolts)
4. Sunspot (Roberto Da Costa)
5. Spider-Gwen (Gwenom)
6. Miles Morales (Carnage Symbiote)
7. Magik (Phoenix Five)
8. Kitty Pryde (Uncanny X-Men)
9. Killmonger (Erik Stevens)
10. Jubilee (Phoenix Force)
11. Jeffrey (Symbiote)
12. Jean Grey (Phoenix)
13. Hit-Monkey (E.D.I. Suit)
14. Hawkeye (Clint Barton)
15. Gorgon (X of Swords)
16. Gambit (Classic)
17. Emma Frost (Phoenix Five)
18. Elsa Bloodstone (Space Hunter)
19. Elektra (Woman Without Fear)
20. Deadpool (Hotpool)
21. Captain America (Infinity War)
22. Black Widow (Natasha Romanoff)

Some of these characters of course have passive values outside damage and healing, but none of them come anywhere near Shang's value, ESPECIALLY when you consider his solo value. The characters above that do have some decent value, are usually off the back of other teammates or part of niche strategies.

So, saying "you can beat him easily on defense" or "he isn't the fastest right now" are only 2 points of consideration for balance, and 2 that don't cover their main point of introducing more variety / strategy. The vast majority of the time, those noted above also are not faster, nor better on defense, and the only reason he isn't one of the fastest right now, or you see him less, is because they have introduced new characters who are even more out of balance than him.

This is only a tiny list of characters from the game that are largely invalidated by Shang, but the reality is, that list is far larger because he is so good he supersedes choosing a rainbow team.

Before you consider saying "well, just buff all of the other characters to his value" seriously consider the amount of work it would take to get the 97ish percent of characters there, and the amount that would go wrong in the process.

KGB

@WhiteBomber

The problem is with 500 characters and only 6 colors on the board (ignoring TUs) and X number of unique powers (not sure what X is, but say 30-40 unique powers), eventually you'll run into a lot of duplicate abilities on same colors (eg Red - Trap tiles). Once that happens (and it only gets worse with each new release), the game is stagnant in that there is nothing to differentiate 2 characters beyond X damage for Y AP and making everyone exactly the same is boring for a different reason (ie why have 2 more or less exact same characters).

The other thing about the list of characters is that outside of a VERY few players (talking .0001%), most rosters are not equally balanced. So nerfing Shang whom someone has at 550 in order to make that list of characters more balanced doesn't help unless THEY ALSO have those same characters at 550. In other words if they have that list of characters in say the 480 range, they won't get played when that player has a 550 Shang even if he gets nerfed. That's because obviously a 550 > 480. So all that happens is you make a WHOLE lot of the player bases life worse (nerfing their 550) and those characters still never get used because of the unbalanced roster issue (which is why I expect Polaris to continue to see heavy use because so many will have 550d her or 370d her in 4 star land far ahead of any other 4).

I mean if this was voted on, the player base would overwhelmingly vote NO (like 99% or better I bet). And from a money standpoint (the games true purpose as EB always reminds us) it doesn't generate any more money at all (the only way it could would be if they let you spend $1-2 to say transfer Shangs levels to another 5 star character - sans champ rewards and they've never given any indication they'd do that).

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:
@WhiteBomber

The problem is with 500 characters and only 6 colors on the board (ignoring TUs) and X number of unique powers (not sure what X is, but say 30-40 unique powers), eventually you'll run into a lot of duplicate abilities on same colors (eg Red - Trap tiles). Once that happens (and it only gets worse with each new release), the game is stagnant in that there is nothing to differentiate 2 characters beyond X damage for Y AP and making everyone exactly the same is boring for a different reason (ie why have 2 more or less exact same characters).

The other thing about the list of characters is that outside of a VERY few players (talking .0001%), most rosters are not equally balanced. So nerfing Shang whom someone has at 550 in order to make that list of characters more balanced doesn't help unless THEY ALSO have those same characters at 550. In other words if they have that list of characters in say the 480 range, they won't get played when that player has a 550 Shang even if he gets nerfed. That's because obviously a 550 > 480. So all that happens is you make a WHOLE lot of the player bases life worse (nerfing their 550) and those characters still never get used because of the unbalanced roster issue (which is why I expect Polaris to continue to see heavy use because so many will have 550d her or 370d her in 4 star land far ahead of any other 4).

I mean if this was voted on, the player base would overwhelmingly vote NO (like 99% or better I bet). And from a money standpoint (the games true purpose as EB always reminds us) it doesn't generate any more money at all (the only way it could would be if they let you spend $1-2 to say transfer Shangs levels to another 5 star character - sans champ rewards and they've never given any indication they'd do that).

KGB

Sure, and because the devs haven't bothered with character balance in a million years, the "smart" players only level up the overpowered characters, then use them for everything. And if your business model is selling new characters...well, who's buying a new guy unless they're better than the ones they already have?

The only way to break the cycle is to start regularly doing balance updates, such that you never know which one of the 500 characters you'll need that week.

"But everybody will quit!!!"

I mean, if the game is dead, that's the same as everyone quitting anyway, so what's the difference?

entrailbucket

And for the 100,000th time: balance is NOT "all the characters are exactly the same power level."

That's impossible, for one, and nobody wants it anyway. No one has ever suggested making all the characters 100% equal.

Balance is "all the 5* characters are in roughly the same tier." Balance is "you can champion Cable as your first 5* and matchmaking will be fine, because Cable can beat 450 m'Thor." Balance is "a character who's boosted to 550 is always better than a character who's unboosted at 450."

This isn't complicated stuff.

Edit: and true, exactly-equal balance isn't even necessary anymore, because we have the boost list! If you have all the characters at 450, that means you have 4 550s every single week!

If you have everyone at 480, that means you've got 4 lvl600 characters every week. If m'Thor at 550 is your best character over 4 lvl600 guys, that is insane. Why wouldn't we want that changed?

KGB

@entrailbucket said:
And for the 100,000th time: balance is NOT "all the characters are exactly the same power level."

That's impossible, for one, and nobody wants it anyway. No one has ever suggested making all the characters 100% equal.

Balance is "all the 5* characters are in roughly the same tier." Balance is "you can champion Cable as your first 5* and matchmaking will be fine, because Cable can beat 450 m'Thor."

This is probably as impossible as all characters being 100% equal. Especially with 500+ potential characters at the 5 star level, 400+ potential characters at the 4 star level etc.

The reason is obvious, you don't fight 1v1 battles (outside the weekly crash). Team mate synergy and supports matter too much to make any such discussion (you can champ a random 5 as your 1st and be fine) meaningful in any way. You can't champ a random 5 and be fine in PvP and you'll never be able to do so regardless of how much balancing they do (look at the buffs they just did that make 1HE into a winfinite and 2Moonstone into a 1 turn AOE and shortly they'll have to address that which takes times away from some other buff/nerf and they've just done like 7 characters out of 500).

Balance is "a character who's boosted to 550 is always better than a character who's unboosted at 450."

Technically if you achieved your first point (all characters roughly in the same tier), the game wouldn't need boosted characters (outside the essential).

KGB

P.S. Players are still going to collect all characters, even trash ones because they all generate the same rewards (minus feeder differences). So it doesn't affect the money bottom line if some are way more powerful. It only affects PvP teams you face.

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
And for the 100,000th time: balance is NOT "all the characters are exactly the same power level."

That's impossible, for one, and nobody wants it anyway. No one has ever suggested making all the characters 100% equal.

Balance is "all the 5* characters are in roughly the same tier." Balance is "you can champion Cable as your first 5* and matchmaking will be fine, because Cable can beat 450 m'Thor."

This is probably as impossible as all characters being 100% equal. Especially with 500+ potential characters at the 5 star level, 400+ potential characters at the 4 star level etc.

The reason is obvious, you don't fight 1v1 battles (outside the weekly crash). Team mate synergy and supports matter too much to make any such discussion (you can champ a random 5 as your 1st and be fine) meaningful in any way. You can't champ a random 5 and be fine in PvP and you'll never be able to do so regardless of how much balancing they do (look at the buffs they just did that make 1HE into a winfinite and 2Moonstone into a 1 turn AOE and shortly they'll have to address that which takes times away from some other buff/nerf and they've just done like 7 characters out of 500).

Balance is "a character who's boosted to 550 is always better than a character who's unboosted at 450."

Technically if you achieved your first point (all characters roughly in the same tier), the game wouldn't need boosted characters (outside the essential).

KGB

P.S. Players are still going to collect all characters, even trash ones because they all generate the same rewards (minus feeder differences). So it doesn't affect the money bottom line if some are way more powerful. It only affects PvP teams you face.

Seriously? You seriously think they can't put all the characters in a star tier at roughly the same...star tier? Why are there tiers at all then? Of course they can do that!

And I'm sorry, but they can ABSOLUTELY make it so championing Cable first isn't a PvP death sentence, and it's not even hard. Yes, synergy and supports matter, but like, come on. This isn't rocket science. Nerf the overpowered guys and buff the underpowered guys, then keep doing it until everybody is roughly in the 5* tier.

The game would still need boosted characters, even if it achieved rough balance. In that situation there would still be some characters with, like, a 5% or 10% edge, and competitive players would use them for everything. The boost list guarantees week to week variety. You could reduce it from 100 levels, though! The problem now is that it's not big enough -- the good characters are like 200 levels better than everyone else.

And...not all players are going to collect all the characters. And they're certainly not going to spend money on bad characters!

Borstock

@WhiteBomber

I would also like to point out that, when boosted, I would choose MANY of the characters on your list over a not boosted Shang-Chi. That's why boost weeks exist. Those, I think, are supposed to be the "regular character rebalances" that eb is talking about.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
And for the 100,000th time: balance is NOT "all the characters are exactly the same power level."

That's impossible, for one, and nobody wants it anyway. No one has ever suggested making all the characters 100% equal.

Balance is "all the 5* characters are in roughly the same tier." Balance is "you can champion Cable as your first 5* and matchmaking will be fine, because Cable can beat 450 m'Thor."

This is probably as impossible as all characters being 100% equal. Especially with 500+ potential characters at the 5 star level, 400+ potential characters at the 4 star level etc.

The reason is obvious, you don't fight 1v1 battles (outside the weekly crash). Team mate synergy and supports matter too much to make any such discussion (you can champ a random 5 as your 1st and be fine) meaningful in any way. You can't champ a random 5 and be fine in PvP and you'll never be able to do so regardless of how much balancing they do (look at the buffs they just did that make 1HE into a winfinite and 2Moonstone into a 1 turn AOE and shortly they'll have to address that which takes times away from some other buff/nerf and they've just done like 7 characters out of 500).

Balance is "a character who's boosted to 550 is always better than a character who's unboosted at 450."

Technically if you achieved your first point (all characters roughly in the same tier), the game wouldn't need boosted characters (outside the essential).

KGB

P.S. Players are still going to collect all characters, even trash ones because they all generate the same rewards (minus feeder differences). So it doesn't affect the money bottom line if some are way more powerful. It only affects PvP teams you face.

Seriously? You seriously think they can't put all the characters in a star tier at roughly the same...star tier? Why are there tiers at all then? Of course they can do that!

And I'm sorry, but they can ABSOLUTELY make it so championing Cable first isn't a PvP death sentence, and it's not even hard. Yes, synergy and supports matter, but like, come on. This isn't rocket science. Nerf the overpowered guys and buff the underpowered guys, then keep doing it until everybody is roughly in the 5* tier.

Aren't you the same guy who countless times has said they don't understand their own game because they don't play it? And now here you claim they can some how make 500 5 stars (that's the total number of characters in all tiers ascended to 5 star level) all roughly the same power in that tier?

Excuse me while I die laughing.

I mean they just buffed what, a handful of characters and doing that they accidentally made 1HE and 2Moonstone WAY OP so that they now need a nerf? Only 490 more to balance in the 5 star tier. If they do 10 a week (an absolute insane pace) it's only 49 weeks (roughly next anniversary) before they are finished by which time we'll probably have 30-40 new accidental OP characters that need nerfs while probably another 50-100 will still need buffs (as noted with 2 Cap who is no where close to even mediocre). If they do 10 every other week it's 98 weeks (roughly 2 years time), if they manage 10 a month (still a very fast pace) it's 4 years time.

There are simply too many characters now and its going to take too long. And oh by the way, that's just balancing out the 5 star tier, it says nothing about the 4 star and below tiers which also need to be kept balanced because as we know, about 1-2% of all players are playing there, the rest are in the lower tiers which also need to stay in balance (for example 3A4 Angel is still broken in that he has L450 level health and damage - my 304 has 70K health and his blue/green powers do 40 and 25K damage).

And...not all players are going to collect all the characters. And they're certainly not going to spend money on bad characters!

This is much easier to solve. Stop making meta characters 'essential' and stop boosting meta characters (ie they know what's meta at least by what's most played). If your handful of characters were never boosted and never essential you'd have to roster the rest to play PvE and PvP. See, I solved it in 30 seconds.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
And for the 100,000th time: balance is NOT "all the characters are exactly the same power level."

That's impossible, for one, and nobody wants it anyway. No one has ever suggested making all the characters 100% equal.

Balance is "all the 5* characters are in roughly the same tier." Balance is "you can champion Cable as your first 5* and matchmaking will be fine, because Cable can beat 450 m'Thor."

This is probably as impossible as all characters being 100% equal. Especially with 500+ potential characters at the 5 star level, 400+ potential characters at the 4 star level etc.

The reason is obvious, you don't fight 1v1 battles (outside the weekly crash). Team mate synergy and supports matter too much to make any such discussion (you can champ a random 5 as your 1st and be fine) meaningful in any way. You can't champ a random 5 and be fine in PvP and you'll never be able to do so regardless of how much balancing they do (look at the buffs they just did that make 1HE into a winfinite and 2Moonstone into a 1 turn AOE and shortly they'll have to address that which takes times away from some other buff/nerf and they've just done like 7 characters out of 500).

Balance is "a character who's boosted to 550 is always better than a character who's unboosted at 450."

Technically if you achieved your first point (all characters roughly in the same tier), the game wouldn't need boosted characters (outside the essential).

KGB

P.S. Players are still going to collect all characters, even trash ones because they all generate the same rewards (minus feeder differences). So it doesn't affect the money bottom line if some are way more powerful. It only affects PvP teams you face.

Seriously? You seriously think they can't put all the characters in a star tier at roughly the same...star tier? Why are there tiers at all then? Of course they can do that!

And I'm sorry, but they can ABSOLUTELY make it so championing Cable first isn't a PvP death sentence, and it's not even hard. Yes, synergy and supports matter, but like, come on. This isn't rocket science. Nerf the overpowered guys and buff the underpowered guys, then keep doing it until everybody is roughly in the 5* tier.

Aren't you the same guy who countless times has said they don't understand their own game because they don't play it? And now here you claim they can some how make 500 5 stars (that's the total number of characters in all tiers ascended to 5 star level) all roughly the same power in that tier?

Excuse me while I die laughing.

I mean they just buffed what, a handful of characters and doing that they accidentally made 1HE and 2Moonstone WAY OP so that they now need a nerf? Only 490 more to balance in the 5 star tier. If they do 10 a week (an absolute insane pace) it's only 49 weeks (roughly next anniversary) before they are finished by which time we'll probably have 30-40 new accidental OP characters that need nerfs while probably another 50-100 will still need buffs (as noted with 2 Cap who is no where close to even mediocre). If they do 10 every other week it's 98 weeks (roughly 2 years time), if they manage 10 a month (still a very fast pace) it's 4 years time.

There are simply too many characters now and its going to take too long. And oh by the way, that's just balancing out the 5 star tier, it says nothing about the 4 star and below tiers which also need to be kept balanced because as we know, about 1-2% of all players are playing there, the rest are in the lower tiers which also need to stay in balance (for example 3A4 Angel is still broken in that he has L450 level health and damage - my 304 has 70K health and his blue/green powers do 40 and 25K damage).

And...not all players are going to collect all the characters. And they're certainly not going to spend money on bad characters!

This is much easier to solve. Stop making meta characters 'essential' and stop boosting meta characters (ie they know what's meta at least by what's most played). If your handful of characters were never boosted and never essential you'd have to roster the rest to play PvE and PvP. See, I solved it in 30 seconds.

KGB

It's just not that complicated. You're still talking about perfect balance, and that is not what anyone is arguing for. I'm saying all the 5* should be 5*, not 5.5* or 4.5*.

For the 5* tier we are talking about maybe 10 or 15 total changes at this point, and that fixes it to the level I'm describing. They are not that far off right now at all. I could make a list of characters here but I don't think it's necessary, we all know. They have buffed a lot of the garbage characters to "usable when boosted" already (even though nobody noticed because they all only use the same 2 guys for everything).

Do those changes then watch what happens. Reevaluate regularly -- don't let problems faster for years.

Can this group of devs/designers get it right? Well, that's a different question, but I don't think either answer means they shouldn't try.

Seph1roth5

@entrailbucket said:

@Bustapup said:

@WhiteBomber said:
Everyone already knows who the next people are to be nerfed. They said it before, they also said there shouldn't be any surprise characters (and there aren't, yet).

Here is you list of next to be nerfed (in no specific order):

1. MThor
2. IronMay
3. Maybe ShangChi

If they're smart, they'll add Sam5 to that list also (it's not Juggernauts fault).

I refuse to believe people don't see how far out of balance any these characters are. So, I will just assume everyone is more just frustrated about their investments, which is valid, they never should have let them go this long unchecked, and they have a rough history with balancing.

MThor absolutely needs to be nerfed as she is just universally a pain in the **** on ANY team she's in and can solo carry.

I'm not sure about Shang Chi for 2 main reasons

1. Without fantasticar his threat is immediately reduced

2. There are enough characters that can counter him. Ascended Juggs/Shaw and 5* Colossus can all withstand his match damage long enough to K.O him and with protect tiles thrown in, you can quickly get to a position where he just isn't doing any damage at all.

May I'm unsure of as well. Again, without leapfrog or something that protects her you can easily take her out of the fight. The problem she has is that too many supports allow the characters she's boosting to immediately pop off on turn one and kill you or do so much damage you can't realistically recover (Omega Red, Nova, M'Baku/Namor combo etc).

In fact so many characters are what they are because of specific supports which is why I think they've ruined the game completely and created huge issues but that's a WHOOOOOOLE other rant. I'm so bored of seeing Franky teams that start the match with like 12 green AP because even characters that could usually counter her turn one are useless (I use Killgrave's blue and Sunspots Purple to stop her using green straight away when I can)

May's kit is great for obvious reasons but without protection she can be dealt with so I'm not SURE she should be nerfed .... Maybe her 5* utility needs to be reduced?

I think they have to do something to May before big Galactuses start running around. Right now her health boost is permanent, so the fact that she has low HP doesn't matter -- killing her doesn't do anything. With her around it'd be trivial to push his HP over a million, and he keeps the same damage reduction power.

The fix I proposed would take care of her ascension problems too, in one shot. They should change her so that her buff % varies based on the tier of character she's buffing, not her own tier.

As for Shang-Chi, I believe they're now targeting characters that are too strong on offense, which is something they used to do all the time and something that most other games do too.

Definitely. Would be great if her HP boost only worked while she was alive. But also galactus's threshold should be a % base not just a flat number. Because other stuff can raise your HP. High evo, and uh...maybe others?