Marvel Puzzle Quest: Character Rebalances - Batch #1

bluewolf

@skittledaddy said:
When are the rest of the nerfs coming?
Or was that story just a ruse to hide the witch hunt of my Queen Polaris getting bludgeoned into D-tier?

Some kind of update would be helpful but my working assumption for now is they’ll make changes as seasons begin, since that’s how they usually do things with rebalancing.

Blackstone

@skittledaddy said:
When are the rest of the nerfs coming?
Or was that story just a ruse to hide the witch hunt of my Queen Polaris getting bludgeoned into D-tier?

Flat Earthers
Sovereign Citizens
Those who think 1X1=2
Those who think the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her "into D-tier"

All fine examples of how emotion, bias, and lack of critical thinking skills can lead one to make illogical claims with absolutely no objective data to support those claims.

entrailbucket

@Blackstone said:

@skittledaddy said:
When are the rest of the nerfs coming?
Or was that story just a ruse to hide the witch hunt of my Queen Polaris getting bludgeoned into D-tier?

Flat Earthers
Sovereign Citizens
Those who think 1X1=2
Those who think the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her "into D-tier"

All fine examples of how emotion, bias, and lack of critical thinking skills can lead one to make illogical claims with absolutely no objective data to support those claims.

Hey, it depends on how one constructs the tiers!

Back when Okoye/Hulk dominated the metagame and we didn't have weekly boosts yet, I used to say there were two tiers:

A tier: Okoye, Hulk
F tier: everyone else

Since you'd never use any of the other characters, their relative rankings didn't actually matter. Why bother debating Banner vs BSS vs Doc Ock if they're all permanent benchwarmers?

So maybe this particular ranker only has two tiers -- A and D.

Blackstone

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:

@skittledaddy said:
When are the rest of the nerfs coming?
Or was that story just a ruse to hide the witch hunt of my Queen Polaris getting bludgeoned into D-tier?

Flat Earthers
Sovereign Citizens
Those who think 1X1=2
Those who think the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her "into D-tier"

All fine examples of how emotion, bias, and lack of critical thinking skills can lead one to make illogical claims with absolutely no objective data to support those claims.

Hey, it depends on how one constructs the tiers!

Back when Okoye/Hulk dominated the metagame and we didn't have weekly boosts yet, I used to say there were two tiers:

A tier: Okoye, Hulk
F tier: everyone else

Since you'd never use any of the other characters, their relative rankings didn't actually matter. Why bother debating Banner vs BSS vs Doc Ock if they're all permanent benchwarmers?

So maybe this particular ranker only has two tiers -- A and D.

If you feel the need to create a dataset that will support a predetermined outcome (one that isn't based on facts but can seem that way if you squint at it hard enough) you could have a point.

But we do have weekly boosts now, and even daily quests that favor Polaris specifically, and Polaris was not, and still is not, a "permanent benchwarmer" before and after her change.

Even those that don't generally need her to win (both of us, for example, have rosters that don't rely on her) could absolutely make use of her if we did use her for any reason.

If she's D tier for you now, she was already D tier for you before the change.

If you relied heavily on her before the change, you can still use her in every way you did previously and get positive results.

Getting to the point I made in my previous comment though:

If she's D tier for you, it wasn't the nerf that put her there.

Regardless of how any individual decides to construct their tiers it's wholly unfair to state the the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her into D tier.

entrailbucket

@Blackstone said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:

@skittledaddy said:
When are the rest of the nerfs coming?
Or was that story just a ruse to hide the witch hunt of my Queen Polaris getting bludgeoned into D-tier?

Flat Earthers
Sovereign Citizens
Those who think 1X1=2
Those who think the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her "into D-tier"

All fine examples of how emotion, bias, and lack of critical thinking skills can lead one to make illogical claims with absolutely no objective data to support those claims.

Hey, it depends on how one constructs the tiers!

Back when Okoye/Hulk dominated the metagame and we didn't have weekly boosts yet, I used to say there were two tiers:

A tier: Okoye, Hulk
F tier: everyone else

Since you'd never use any of the other characters, their relative rankings didn't actually matter. Why bother debating Banner vs BSS vs Doc Ock if they're all permanent benchwarmers?

So maybe this particular ranker only has two tiers -- A and D.

If you feel the need to create a dataset that will support a predetermined outcome (one that isn't based on facts but can seem that way if you squint at it hard enough) you could have a point.

But we do have weekly boosts now, and even daily quests that favor Polaris specifically, and Polaris was not, and still is not, a "permanent benchwarmer" before and after her change.

Even those that don't generally need her to win (both of us, for example, have rosters that don't rely on her) could absolutely make use of her if we did use her for any reason.

If she's D tier for you now, she was already D tier for you before the change.

If you relied heavily on her before the change, you can still use her in every way you did previously and get positive results.

Getting to the point I made in my previous comment though:

If she's D tier for you, it wasn't the nerf that put her there.

Regardless of how any individual decides to construct their tiers it's wholly unfair to state the the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her into D tier.

Exactly! (I wasn't saying they were right, just taking a shot at how they probably arrived at that conclusion!)

Pantera236

Those that think 1x1=2, nobody believes that but Terrance Howard right? RIGHT?!?!

Blackstone

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:

@skittledaddy said:
When are the rest of the nerfs coming?
Or was that story just a ruse to hide the witch hunt of my Queen Polaris getting bludgeoned into D-tier?

Flat Earthers
Sovereign Citizens
Those who think 1X1=2
Those who think the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her "into D-tier"

All fine examples of how emotion, bias, and lack of critical thinking skills can lead one to make illogical claims with absolutely no objective data to support those claims.

Hey, it depends on how one constructs the tiers!

Back when Okoye/Hulk dominated the metagame and we didn't have weekly boosts yet, I used to say there were two tiers:

A tier: Okoye, Hulk
F tier: everyone else

Since you'd never use any of the other characters, their relative rankings didn't actually matter. Why bother debating Banner vs BSS vs Doc Ock if they're all permanent benchwarmers?

So maybe this particular ranker only has two tiers -- A and D.

If you feel the need to create a dataset that will support a predetermined outcome (one that isn't based on facts but can seem that way if you squint at it hard enough) you could have a point.

But we do have weekly boosts now, and even daily quests that favor Polaris specifically, and Polaris was not, and still is not, a "permanent benchwarmer" before and after her change.

Even those that don't generally need her to win (both of us, for example, have rosters that don't rely on her) could absolutely make use of her if we did use her for any reason.

If she's D tier for you now, she was already D tier for you before the change.

If you relied heavily on her before the change, you can still use her in every way you did previously and get positive results.

Getting to the point I made in my previous comment though:

If she's D tier for you, it wasn't the nerf that put her there.

Regardless of how any individual decides to construct their tiers it's wholly unfair to state the the Polaris nerf "bludgeoned" her into D tier.

Exactly! (I wasn't saying they were right, just taking a shot at how they probably arrived at that conclusion!)

Fair enough.

Ed_Dragonrider

@Grantosium said:

Possibly we've moved the conversation on now, but I thought I'd try recording with my lowest Hawkeye duplicate that could carry a support and my two lowest 3 star duplicates.

I actually did it twice and was successful both times. The first run was actually quicker, just under 2 minutes, but the microphone was on and I don't want to subject the world to unnecessary breathing and screen tapping noises.

https://youtube.com/shorts/jGxpw543ywQ?si=RBpiVjb2iWVtJcAW

Obviously it's very dependent on the Quantum Realm support firing but I've found it's very rare to need to pass the turn ever if you start with 5 purple AP. If you genuinely had to clear the whole day's PvE with this you'd probably wipe every time Quantum Realm doesn't fire, which is about 1/3 of the time. So for 30 node clears you'd expect it to take 10-13 health packs on average for Hawkeye, assuming it doesn't matter who you take as the 2nd and 3rd characters.

This looked very promising, so I tried it on a Tower node, with lvl 560 or so enemies. It took me 14 minutes!! for 1a3 HE to finally whittle down the enemy team.

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or my supports don't have something unlocked, but how is your HE in the video doing larger and larger damage? By the end I think he one-shots a 235k healthpool. Mine always remained like 2k with additional damage being done to the non-fronting characters...

WhiteBomber

The supports are key to the big damage, you must have Lucky at level 3.

The point is to start with a strike tile (level 1 AI) then Level 3 Lucky will buff that tile (ALOT) each time you match your strongest color.

So, make sure you do not match away your starting strike tile, then aim for your strongest color as often as possible (even if its not the best match) and the strike tile buff will get crazy.

It's aaaawfully similar to this team

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KfMA0RCdbkg

Grantosium

Yes, it's the same idea as with Meteor. The point I was making was that everyone has a 1 star Hawkeye even if they're a newish player.

In terms of optimum partners for the team, I'm still working on that. You could go all in and have Meteor and Namor. Would let you run Hawkeye as 4/4/5 (instead of the 5/3/5 I've gravitated towards) alongside Meteor as you'll actually want the black tiles to remain for her to match and Namor spends that black well.

Personally, I'm enjoying 4 star Magik as a partner to Hawkeye. The buff she gives the strike tile is relatively small but it gets multiplied up by Lucky so it makes a difference. More notably the strike tile being fortified every time you fire a power does some idiot proofing on your tile selection.

It does also help if the character holding Low Level AI is a 5 star as the starting strike tile begins with a higher number so it'll save you one or two moves. Ideally you want one with purple as their top colour, red works fairly well too.

Bustapup

@Borstock said:
Shang isn't even THAT fast against teams with a defense buff. I literally can't remember the last time I lost to a Shang-Chi team. (yes, I know that's them on defense and not really what eb is talking about)

You give Shang fantasticar with may and you can lose on turn one lol

Bustapup

God I f****** hate this game sometimes! The PvP featured character events are completely pointless if you don't have the boosted characters maxed. Every single round all I'm seeing is level 600+ jugg with a maxed out implanted bomb of 550 Juggs and Sam. There's literally nothing I can do to win

entrailbucket

@Bustapup said:
God I f****** hate this game sometimes! The PvP featured character events are completely pointless if you don't have the boosted characters maxed. Every single round all I'm seeing is level 600+ jugg with a maxed out implanted bomb of 550 Juggs and Sam. There's literally nothing I can do to win

Seems like a good reason to level up everyone! You never know who'll be boosted in any given week.

BriMan2222

@Bustapup said:
God I f****** hate this game sometimes! The PvP featured character events are completely pointless if you don't have the boosted characters maxed. Every single round all I'm seeing is level 600+ jugg with a maxed out implanted bomb of 550 Juggs and Sam. There's literally nothing I can do to win

I'm easily crushing any of those teams with coulson boosted to lvl 642 and multiple man or my own 672 juggernaut and 2a5 nightcrawler boosted to 650.

I know most people won't have a lvl 500+ coulson, but getting the 1 stars and 2 stars to 550 isn't really that tough with how many you get from tokens and can grind in sim.

Ed_Dragonrider

@Grantosium said:
Yes, it's the same idea as with Meteor. The point I was making was that everyone has a 1 star Hawkeye even if they're a newish player.

In terms of optimum partners for the team, I'm still working on that. You could go all in and have Meteor and Namor. Would let you run Hawkeye as 4/4/5 (instead of the 5/3/5 I've gravitated towards) alongside Meteor as you'll actually want the black tiles to remain for her to match and Namor spends that black well.

Personally, I'm enjoying 4 star Magik as a partner to Hawkeye. The buff she gives the strike tile is relatively small but it gets multiplied up by Lucky so it makes a difference. More notably the strike tile being fortified every time you fire a power does some idiot proofing on your tile selection.

It does also help if the character holding Low Level AI is a 5 star as the starting strike tile begins with a higher number so it'll save you one or two moves. Ideally you want one with purple as their top colour, red works fairly well too.

Thanks guys, I've put the low lvl AI on 5Agatha, Namor has the quantum realm and 1a3HE has lucky. With extra purple brought along in case QR doesn't happen, this team got me through Shield Sim to 800points in just 17 wins.
If the other team has a team damage dealer and QR doesn't happen it's immediate game over, but otherwise Agatha can usually survive an extra turn or two and I was able to win.
Is there a limit on how high the strike tile can be buffed? It never seemed to get higher than 42k for me.

Grantosium

@Ed_Dragonrider said:
Thanks guys, I've put the low lvl AI on 5Agatha, Namor has the quantum realm and 1a3HE has lucky. With extra purple brought along in case QR doesn't happen, this team got me through Shield Sim to 800points in just 17 wins.
If the other team has a team damage dealer and QR doesn't happen it's immediate game over, but otherwise Agatha can usually survive an extra turn or two and I was able to win.
Is there a limit on how high the strike tile can be buffed? It never seemed to get higher than 42k for me.

Glad to hear of your success. I think there is a limit at which the boosted strike tile should stop working. It's way past a million though. You've probably just won already before it gets there.

Imagine Agatha's blue sometimes gets the purple going turn 1 or 2 if QR fails to fire!

Bustapup

@BriMan2222 said:

@Bustapup said:
God I f****** hate this game sometimes! The PvP featured character events are completely pointless if you don't have the boosted characters maxed. Every single round all I'm seeing is level 600+ jugg with a maxed out implanted bomb of 550 Juggs and Sam. There's literally nothing I can do to win

I'm easily crushing any of those teams with coulson boosted to lvl 642 and multiple man or my own 672 juggernaut and 2a5 nightcrawler boosted to 650.

I know most people won't have a lvl 500+ coulson, but getting the 1 stars and 2 stars to 550 isn't really that tough with how many you get from tokens and can grind in sim.

Yup I'm trying to level everyone up but in the meantime I just have to suffer. My roster is powerful enough that I constantly face level 500+ enemy teams but not powerful enough to compete when I don't have an answer to the boosted characters

entrailbucket

@Bustapup said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Bustapup said:
God I f****** hate this game sometimes! The PvP featured character events are completely pointless if you don't have the boosted characters maxed. Every single round all I'm seeing is level 600+ jugg with a maxed out implanted bomb of 550 Juggs and Sam. There's literally nothing I can do to win

I'm easily crushing any of those teams with coulson boosted to lvl 642 and multiple man or my own 672 juggernaut and 2a5 nightcrawler boosted to 650.

I know most people won't have a lvl 500+ coulson, but getting the 1 stars and 2 stars to 550 isn't really that tough with how many you get from tokens and can grind in sim.

Yup I'm trying to level everyone up but in the meantime I just have to suffer. My roster is powerful enough that I constantly face level 500+ enemy teams but not powerful enough to compete when I don't have an answer to the boosted characters

If it's any consolation, almost everybody has been in a similar situation. I was, and I'm pretty sure @BriMan2222 was (and maybe still is sometimes!).

Figuring out ways to win these fights makes you a better player, and all those skills will serve you well when you have a roster that's strong enough -- and you will have a roster that's strong enough, if you keep at it!