Dev Update #6 - MPQ Unity Launch Pt 3

WilliamK1983

You mean let's give ourselves time to test it out for them.

Tpsimoes

@Krazy said:

@Chrynos1989 said:

@bluewolf said:
It would be awesome if the devs had some clear communication around expectations we should have around auto/forced updates and things.

It would be awesome if we had any kind of communication at all… and only if it was the devs telling me through @S0kun that I‘m an annoying pest for bothering them so much…

I am quoting @S0kun (taken form Discord)

"It's definitely on our radar. One of the potential improvements is lowering the frame rate like some have suggested. R326 is going to lower PC to 60fps and mobile to 30fps. Not sure if that will actually fix things while we investigate further, but we'll see."

Let's give them time to test it out.

Like it was this Unity Engine Deployment? 🤣

KGB

@Krazy said:
I am quoting @S0kun (taken form Discord)

"It's definitely on our radar. One of the potential improvements is lowering the frame rate like some have suggested. R326 is going to lower PC to 60fps and mobile to 30fps. Not sure if that will actually fix things while we investigate further, but we'll see."

It seems doubtful it's going to help much on the lag. The reason is I don't see lag due to frame rate issues (animation like my daily resupply dropping works just fine). Virtually all the lag is due to user input (changing menus, moving tiles, scrolling roster etc) which says the problem is reloading assets and post processing on those assets needed to build menus/game board/roster screens etc. Instead of caching they are rebuilding endlessly. Frame rate won't help that.

KGB

DonnieBrooke

I apologize if this issue was already noted in the 53 pages of this topic, but has anyone mentioned the issue of when the opposing team makes a match, if there are no matches available, then the system is rotating the board during their turn(after the last match) giving them extra matches?

I have seen this happen about 3 times since Unity update, but I do not often see board rotation due to lack of matches.

For OS information, I see a lot of people advising newer devices don't suffer the same issues. I am on a Samsung Galaxy S21 Android version 15. I am not experiencing the crashes everyone else is, but the lag is crazy. Touch also seems extremely sensitive as I hit one button and its like the button hits twice. Its caused me to join several PvP matches without setting a proper line up. Something else I noticed is 3* Doom seems to get put on my team often but I rarely used him before. Not sure why that keeps happening.

KGB

@DonnieBrooke said:
I apologize if this issue was already noted in the 53 pages of this topic, but has anyone mentioned the issue of when the opposing team makes a match, if there are no matches available, then the system is rotating the board during their turn(after the last match) giving them extra matches?

I have seen this happen about 3 times since Unity update, but I do not often see board rotation due to lack of matches.

This issue has been posted in the Bug Forum. At least 2 of us reporting seeing it happen.

Once I saw it happen when I still had an available match I was about to make and suddenly the board reshuffled and I got a free match.

KGB

bluewolf

Today I discovered that at least on iOS (presumably all platforms), the game is doing something new: it is pinging the servers while you're in a match, and if you lose a connection (turn on airplane mode for example) you get the "Comm link disrupted" message. Previously the game only pinged the servers at specific times and never during a match itself. So you would complete the match, then it would ping the server to notify the game of your results etc.

So, the game seems to have increased its data usage for some reason (perhaps collecting anonymized user location data for purposes of selling user lists to advertisers? who knows) but at any rate obviously higher data use by the app/more pings will result in more battery drain etc.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
Today I discovered that at least on iOS (presumably all platforms), the game is doing something new: it is pinging the servers while you're in a match, and if you lose a connection (turn on airplane mode for example) you get the "Comm link disrupted" message. Previously the game only pinged the servers at specific times and never during a match itself. So you would complete the match, then it would ping the server to notify the game of your results etc.

So, the game seems to have increased its data usage for some reason (perhaps collecting anonymized user location data for purposes of selling user lists to advertisers? who knows) but at any rate obviously higher data use by the app/more pings will result in more battery drain etc.

They can't get location data unless you give them permission, but I don't remember if they ask for that.

It's actually not a terrible idea to call home during a match -- they had to do some weird workarounds in the past to fix some airplane mode exploits.

I doubt that's the reason this is happening now, though, they probably screwed something else up.

KGB

@dianetics said:

@bluewolf said:
Today I discovered that at least on iOS (presumably all platforms), the game is doing something new: it is pinging the servers while you're in a match, and if you lose a connection (turn on airplane mode for example) you get the "Comm link disrupted" message. Previously the game only pinged the servers at specific times and never during a match itself. So you would complete the match, then it would ping the server to notify the game of your results etc.

It's not pinging servers. It is exchanging and or streaming data. This never happened during matches before (besides loading assets).
There are points in the match (especially the beginning) where it seems like match data is being resolved server side and not client side.

If you have the ability to throttle your data and record it (wireshark) you can actually watch the game slow down as the data stream piles up.

When a lot of things resolve at the beginning of the match (passive powers, team ups, and things being thrown on the board) if there is not enough bandwidth the game will crawl and potentially freeze.

This is a catastrophically bad decision. It ties performance to your internet connection. I am 99% on WiFi (home or work) and still I see a lag on every menu. I've played a few matches on cellular (AT&T) and it's no different lag wise. On the old app, I could tell the difference between WiFi and cellular when it was pushing post battle rewards. Since I can't now it says their servers are overwhelmed and/or putting everything server side was a terrible idea.

They should not be streaming ANYTHING from the server at all. The only thing that should be sent is rewards / token results. Everything else should be client side.

This also explains why battery use is off the charts. It's very expensive power wise to send data over Wifi/cellular (even Ethernet cards on PCs increase your power pull from your power supply). I can't believe anyone whose ever developed anything for Mobile would OK this design decision...

KGB

Zarqa

This is a big thing for me. I play during commute that doesn’t always have full cell reception. It’s a huge quality of game loss if it changes from checking servers in between games (I can stare out the window until it’s back) or during games (real time disruption)

DonnieBrooke

@KGB said:

@DonnieBrooke said:
I apologize if this issue was already noted in the 53 pages of this topic, but has anyone mentioned the issue of when the opposing team makes a match, if there are no matches available, then the system is rotating the board during their turn(after the last match) giving them extra matches?

I have seen this happen about 3 times since Unity update, but I do not often see board rotation due to lack of matches.

This issue has been posted in the Bug Forum. At least 2 of us reporting seeing it happen.

Once I saw it happen when I still had an available match I was about to make and suddenly the board reshuffled and I got a free match.

KGB

Thank you for confirmation!

I also saw the board reshuffle earlier while there were clear matches available. I have seen that happen twice today. No one had any supports or abilities that would have caused the unexplained shuffle either.

Kross

@scottee said:
Sounds like the game is optimized for the newest phones (iphone 16, pixel 9 pro), but everyone else is getting lag and crashes.

So If I have an iPhone 16 I should update? I have been avoiding updating since it showed up in my available updates list.

entrailbucket

@Kross said:

@scottee said:
Sounds like the game is optimized for the newest phones (iphone 16, pixel 9 pro), but everyone else is getting lag and crashes.

So If I have an iPhone 16 I should update? I have been avoiding updating since it showed up in my available updates list.

I'm on a pretty new Pixel and have been totally fine.

LavaManLee

@Kross said:

@scottee said:
Sounds like the game is optimized for the newest phones (iphone 16, pixel 9 pro), but everyone else is getting lag and crashes.

So If I have an iPhone 16 I should update? I have been avoiding updating since it showed up in my available updates list.

I have an iPhone 16 and waited until the upgrade was forced on me. That was this AM. Game has been fun (beyond things that affect everyone like no saved teams). Battery drain is what it always has been and system is fast. Faster than old engine.

Scofie

@DonnieBrooke said:

@KGB said:

@DonnieBrooke said:
I apologize if this issue was already noted in the 53 pages of this topic, but has anyone mentioned the issue of when the opposing team makes a match, if there are no matches available, then the system is rotating the board during their turn(after the last match) giving them extra matches?

I have seen this happen about 3 times since Unity update, but I do not often see board rotation due to lack of matches.

This issue has been posted in the Bug Forum. At least 2 of us reporting seeing it happen.

Once I saw it happen when I still had an available match I was about to make and suddenly the board reshuffled and I got a free match.

KGB

Thank you for confirmation!

I also saw the board reshuffle earlier while there were clear matches available. I have seen that happen twice today. No one had any supports or abilities that would have caused the unexplained shuffle either.

Is this a new thing though? I noticed it happen occasionally from about 6 months or so ago.

DAZ0273

@KGB said:

@dianetics said:

@bluewolf said:
Today I discovered that at least on iOS (presumably all platforms), the game is doing something new: it is pinging the servers while you're in a match, and if you lose a connection (turn on airplane mode for example) you get the "Comm link disrupted" message. Previously the game only pinged the servers at specific times and never during a match itself. So you would complete the match, then it would ping the server to notify the game of your results etc.

It's not pinging servers. It is exchanging and or streaming data. This never happened during matches before (besides loading assets).
There are points in the match (especially the beginning) where it seems like match data is being resolved server side and not client side.

If you have the ability to throttle your data and record it (wireshark) you can actually watch the game slow down as the data stream piles up.

When a lot of things resolve at the beginning of the match (passive powers, team ups, and things being thrown on the board) if there is not enough bandwidth the game will crawl and potentially freeze.

This is a catastrophically bad decision. It ties performance to your internet connection. I am 99% on WiFi (home or work) and still I see a lag on every menu. I've played a few matches on cellular (AT&T) and it's no different lag wise. On the old app, I could tell the difference between WiFi and cellular when it was pushing post battle rewards. Since I can't now it says their servers are overwhelmed and/or putting everything server side was a terrible idea.

They should not be streaming ANYTHING from the server at all. The only thing that should be sent is rewards / token results. Everything else should be client side.

This also explains why battery use is off the charts. It's very expensive power wise to send data over Wifi/cellular (even Ethernet cards on PCs increase your power pull from your power supply). I can't believe anyone whose ever developed anything for Mobile would OK this design decision...

KGB

Could one of you knowledgeable gentleman put this as a question for IceIX in the other thread? If I think I understand what is being said then this explains a lot to me and why my tablet is struggling.

KGB

@dianetics said:

@KGB said:
Since I can't now it says their servers are overwhelmed and/or putting everything server side was a terrible idea.
They should not be streaming ANYTHING from the server at all. The only thing that should be sent is rewards / token results. Everything else should be client side.

I don't think everything is server side. But, it appears the beginning of the match is.
I used a vpn to pop around about 5 different servers and after pressing fight the beginning of the match took anywhere from 3 seconds to 5 minutes.
A good server would load immediately and the game was very fast and responsive. A bad server would stall on resolving the passive powers and support stuff at the very beginning of the match. The more stuff I added the longer it took.
Also, some stuff I had pre-cached had to be redownloaded if there were new assets that had to be downloaded as well.
It's all very weird stuff.

Very strange especially since the old app didn't require that. I know for sure it would pre-load teams in your PvP queue so that you could skip a few after being out of Wifi/cell range before you'd run out. You could also start and play 1 battle in this state too before you'd have to reconnect to the server to report the result / get your reward.

Clearly that's not the case now. That's worrisome because it means game performance depends on your local server. That will kill the PvE crowd. All we can hope is it's a bug where the game keeps downloading assets you already have on the device without realizing they are there.

KGB

JSP869

The latest update, at least on my S23 Ultra, runs smoother. Better than after the initial upgrade, but that's only better than the initial upgrade; it is still not as good as it was.

But I've also heard from other (chatted online, etc.) who've said the latest update has made things even worse for them. We're talking 20-30 seconds for a match to load, the board to fill up, etc. /grimace
They're also playing on mobile (not Steam, as they mentioned 'tapping' and not 'clicking') but I don't know what phone or tablet they were using.

On my side, again it's better. Not great, but better, and I'm happy to have my virtual buttons back, so my muscle memory is also thankful.

KGB

@JSP869 said:
The latest update, at least on my S23 Ultra, runs smoother. Better than after the initial upgrade, but that's only better than the initial upgrade; it is still not as good as it was.

But I've also heard from other (chatted online, etc.) who've said the latest update has made things even worse for them. We're talking 20-30 seconds for a match to load, the board to fill up, etc. /grimace

This happened to me on my S9+ after the update too. My initial battle froze after the gems fell and I had to wait almost a minute or more before it placed the SAP tiles and let the battle proceed. I was sure the game was frozen and minimized it a couple of times and came back in before it continued.

But once I played a couple battles everything was fine. My guess is there are a lot of assets to load after the update and that can take some time depending on your connection speed (cellular, Wifi, wired). So hopefully it's fine for them after a couple of battles.

KGB

UnityGamer

Here's something a little more meta-directed to Apple iPad devices only. If you swipe one finger down at the top right corner, you will see things like volume control, screen lock, a button to turn on/off Wifi, and your battery percentage. Do this while playing a battle, then tap anywhere outside of the settings to return to the game. Immediately the game will enter its pause menu (where you can adjust display and audio options or retreat battle). This has never happened before in the old engine. The original behavior was to just resume gameplay, no intermediate pause action. That's a glitch.

JoeHandle

@UnityGamer said:
Here's something a little more meta-directed to Apple iPad devices only. If you swipe one finger down at the top right corner, you will see things like volume control, screen lock, a button to turn on/off Wifi, and your battery percentage. Do this while playing a battle, then tap anywhere outside of the settings to return to the game. Immediately the game will enter its pause menu (where you can adjust display and audio options or retreat battle). This has never happened before in the old engine. The original behavior was to just resume gameplay, no intermediate pause action. That's a glitch.

Sounds like a feature to me. Utility is determined by user priorities.