New Character - Sidewinder (Seth Voelker) 4*

LavaManLee

@Timemachinego said:

@LavaManLee said:
Sidewinder also makes the FU node pretty trivial. Yes, you have to match vs winning on Turn 0 but pairing him with 4Juggs/M'Baku makes it a quick three/four match trivial event. Bring some Team Up Boosts and it is over fast.

That's no quicker than Kanging the CN, so it's almost exactly on the PVE curve. I think it's interesting that some of our newest additions have done things that could drastically speed up PVP. I know at this point our expectations are that BC accidentally made an OP PVE character but maybe they do actually want to speed up PVP? For what purposes, I'm not sure, these things are always top heavy...

I'll ask the question: what is Kanging it?

Borstock

@LavaManLee said:
Sidewinder also makes the FU node pretty trivial. Yes, you have to match vs winning on Turn 0 but pairing him with 4Juggs/M'Baku makes it a quick three/four match trivial event. Bring some Team Up Boosts and it is over fast.

Ca> @BriMan2222 said:

@Codex said:
I > @Borstock said:

PvP, I repeat, is awful now. This guy is just gonna make it even worse.

I agree with this!! This guy feels toxic and I am already skipping teams with him on it in pvp. Maybe, he becomes tolerable if no supports in shield sim. But so many people are running leap frog on all their teams that I just don't want to deal with them together.

Kang/Veil. Between Veil's passive sending enemies away and enemy sidewinder sending his own team mates away you'll win even faster than Kang/veil would normally win. Bonus points for leapfrog sending an enemy away.

Not one bit of that is at all interesting to me. I didn't say PvP is unplayable. I said its awful now. A totally unenjoyable experience and characters like this one are why.

Borstock

@LavaManLee said:

@Timemachinego said:

@LavaManLee said:
Sidewinder also makes the FU node pretty trivial. Yes, you have to match vs winning on Turn 0 but pairing him with 4Juggs/M'Baku makes it a quick three/four match trivial event. Bring some Team Up Boosts and it is over fast.

That's no quicker than Kanging the CN, so it's almost exactly on the PVE curve. I think it's interesting that some of our newest additions have done things that could drastically speed up PVP. I know at this point our expectations are that BC accidentally made an OP PVE character but maybe they do actually want to speed up PVP? For what purposes, I'm not sure, these things are always top heavy...

I'll ask the question: what is Kanging it?

Generate a lot of blue quickly and send the entire other team away, I believe.

BriMan2222

@Borstock said:

@LavaManLee said:
Sidewinder also makes the FU node pretty trivial. Yes, you have to match vs winning on Turn 0 but pairing him with 4Juggs/M'Baku makes it a quick three/four match trivial event. Bring some Team Up Boosts and it is over fast.

Ca> @BriMan2222 said:

@Codex said:
I > @Borstock said:

PvP, I repeat, is awful now. This guy is just gonna make it even worse.

I agree with this!! This guy feels toxic and I am already skipping teams with him on it in pvp. Maybe, he becomes tolerable if no supports in shield sim. But so many people are running leap frog on all their teams that I just don't want to deal with them together.

Kang/Veil. Between Veil's passive sending enemies away and enemy sidewinder sending his own team mates away you'll win even faster than Kang/veil would normally win. Bonus points for leapfrog sending an enemy away.

Not one bit of that is at all interesting to me. I didn't say PvP is unplayable. I said its awful now. A totally unenjoyable experience and characters like this one are why.

I was replying to @codex comment and offering a solution to skipping sidewinder teams. Not sure how you thought this was directed at you...

Borstock

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@LavaManLee said:
Sidewinder also makes the FU node pretty trivial. Yes, you have to match vs winning on Turn 0 but pairing him with 4Juggs/M'Baku makes it a quick three/four match trivial event. Bring some Team Up Boosts and it is over fast.

Ca> @BriMan2222 said:

@Codex said:
I > @Borstock said:

PvP, I repeat, is awful now. This guy is just gonna make it even worse.

I agree with this!! This guy feels toxic and I am already skipping teams with him on it in pvp. Maybe, he becomes tolerable if no supports in shield sim. But so many people are running leap frog on all their teams that I just don't want to deal with them together.

Kang/Veil. Between Veil's passive sending enemies away and enemy sidewinder sending his own team mates away you'll win even faster than Kang/veil would normally win. Bonus points for leapfrog sending an enemy away.

Not one bit of that is at all interesting to me. I didn't say PvP is unplayable. I said its awful now. A totally unenjoyable experience and characters like this one are why.

I was replying to @codex and offering a solution to skipping sidewinder teams. Not sure how you thought this was directed at you...

I didn't think it was directed at me. I used it to further illustrate what is awful about PvP. Even the counters suck.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@LavaManLee said:
Sidewinder also makes the FU node pretty trivial. Yes, you have to match vs winning on Turn 0 but pairing him with 4Juggs/M'Baku makes it a quick three/four match trivial event. Bring some Team Up Boosts and it is over fast.

Ca> @BriMan2222 said:

@Codex said:
I > @Borstock said:

PvP, I repeat, is awful now. This guy is just gonna make it even worse.

I agree with this!! This guy feels toxic and I am already skipping teams with him on it in pvp. Maybe, he becomes tolerable if no supports in shield sim. But so many people are running leap frog on all their teams that I just don't want to deal with them together.

Kang/Veil. Between Veil's passive sending enemies away and enemy sidewinder sending his own team mates away you'll win even faster than Kang/veil would normally win. Bonus points for leapfrog sending an enemy away.

Not one bit of that is at all interesting to me. I didn't say PvP is unplayable. I said its awful now. A totally unenjoyable experience and characters like this one are why.

I was replying to @codex and offering a solution to skipping sidewinder teams. Not sure how you thought this was directed at you...

I didn't think it was directed at me. I used it to further illustrate what is awful about PvP. Even the counters suck.

If you have that week's boosted characters at very high levels, they can still compete (for now).

If you don't, I have no idea what you'd do. "Play a regular MPQ match where you move the board, gather AP, and cast powers" is not really a thing.

trenchdigger

I'd like to know what happens to sidewinder's powers after ascension, to understand whether he is worth favouriting.

There used to be a forumite with some sort of hacked/sandbox account who would post videos of battles using the newly released character at 550 just days after release? I think that was pre ascension though, so quite a while ago.

Waddles_Pines

@trenchdigger said:
I'd like to know what happens to sidewinder's powers after ascension, to understand whether he is worth favouriting.

There used to be a forumite with some sort of hacked/sandbox account who would post videos of battles using the newly released character at 550 just days after release? I think that was pre ascension though, so quite a while ago.

I think the policy is you can't ascend until a season later (approx 4 weeks), expect to see numbers then.

KGB

@trenchdigger said:
I'd like to know what happens to sidewinder's powers after ascension, to understand whether he is worth favouriting.

There used to be a forumite with some sort of hacked/sandbox account who would post videos of battles using the newly released character at 550 just days after release? I think that was pre ascension though, so quite a while ago.

Why would you want to ascend him?

His most important passive requires his team mates to tank colors (you want him tanking nothing). His other passive doesn't get any better as a 5 than it would be as a 4. None of his active powers is going to get any meaningfully better damage wise as a 5 than it is as a 4.

If you are worried about low health as a 4, just put Leapfrog on him to give him even more ways to escape being one shot killed or match damaged to death.

KGB

trenchdigger

At 370 he only has 22k health which can easily be chipped away by anyone with AOE. Ascend him to say 475 and with 2 550s he wont be tanking anything, but downing him will be far less trivial. He only needs to stay alive for a turn or 2 his boost is so over powered.

KGB

The only place you are getting a pair of 550s as team mates is in Simulator (unless you've ascended your 3s to 550 already?).

If he only needs a turn or two then 22K health is fine. Both Leapfrog and his only Blue passive will burst heal damage to help against AOE chip damage (besides OR, who else with AOE gets used?).

I rather suspect we are all going to be disappointed at his ascended numbers as I bet that match damage boost goes WAY down from 1500%.

KGB

WhiteBomber

My guestimate would be 1500 to 150; just remove a zero, niiice and simple. Maybe 15 though, to be more on theme with some other ascensions...

entrailbucket

@KGB said:
The only place you are getting a pair of 550s as team mates is in Simulator (unless you've ascended your 3s to 550 already?).

If he only needs a turn or two then 22K health is fine. Both Leapfrog and his only Blue passive will burst heal damage to help against AOE chip damage (besides OR, who else with AOE gets used?).

I rather suspect we are all going to be disappointed at his ascended numbers as I bet that match damage boost goes WAY down from 1500%.

KGB

I'm going to bonus him and ascend him because I don't care, but it's getting pretty difficult to make an argument to ascend some of these guys now.

Previously it was an offense vs defense thing -- with 3* May, for example, trading a bigger buff for 5* health could be worth it, if you want her to survive for more than a turn on defense.

The problem now is that there are so many ways to keep these guys alive anyway via supports, plus the bigger buff now matters a ton on defense. There are Chasm defensive teams that can oneshot you before you even move the board, and they absolutely require the higher buff levels. It doesn't matter if Sidewinder has low health if the AI can beat you before you get a chance to hit him once.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:
The only place you are getting a pair of 550s as team mates is in Simulator (unless you've ascended your 3s to 550 already?).

If he only needs a turn or two then 22K health is fine. Both Leapfrog and his only Blue passive will burst heal damage to help against AOE chip damage (besides OR, who else with AOE gets used?).

I rather suspect we are all going to be disappointed at his ascended numbers as I bet that match damage boost goes WAY down from 1500%.

KGB

There are Chasm defensive teams that can oneshot you before you even move the board, and they absolutely require the higher buff levels. It doesn't matter if Sidewinder has low health if the AI can beat you before you get a chance to hit him once.

Doesn't Sidewinder help with this? In a pick 3 you can run him with Moonknight/Surfer and have 2 stun immune characters that cover 5 of the 6 colors for match damage fun. Sidewinder means it no longer matters that they are useless characters power wise, they just need his match damage boost to be god tier. Even in pick 2 you can run Sidewinder/Surfer or Sidewinder/Moonknight against Chasm.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:
The only place you are getting a pair of 550s as team mates is in Simulator (unless you've ascended your 3s to 550 already?).

If he only needs a turn or two then 22K health is fine. Both Leapfrog and his only Blue passive will burst heal damage to help against AOE chip damage (besides OR, who else with AOE gets used?).

I rather suspect we are all going to be disappointed at his ascended numbers as I bet that match damage boost goes WAY down from 1500%.

KGB

There are Chasm defensive teams that can oneshot you before you even move the board, and they absolutely require the higher buff levels. It doesn't matter if Sidewinder has low health if the AI can beat you before you get a chance to hit him once.

Doesn't Sidewinder help with this? In a pick 3 you can run him with Moonknight/Surfer and have 2 stun immune characters that cover 5 of the 6 colors for match damage fun. Sidewinder means it no longer matters that they are useless characters power wise, they just need his match damage boost to be god tier. Even in pick 2 you can run Sidewinder/Surfer or Sidewinder/Moonknight against Chasm.

KGB

I'm not sure.

The problem with Surfer and Moon Knight was that they're good against Chasm but bad against almost everyone else. I don't know if the Sidewinder bonus bridges that gap.

Timemachinego

@Borstock said:

Generate a lot of blue quickly and send the entire other team away, I believe.

It's not even quite that anymore, after Darkveil. Used to be you'd gen 27 blue with 3* Iron Man's yellow and 5*HE's passive, which took a few turns, wasn't fast to resolve and was moderately vulnerable to enemies; now you just let Deathlok rack up some blue for your final away and Darkveil will do most of the away'ing. There's also the Chasm variant I was told about recently, where Chasm's self-damage will trigger Darkveil (so you never need Kang to directly do anything), but I had it fail a number of times on me in ways I couldn't figure out so I benched it.

Borstock

Might as well bring back Bishop, WorthyCap, and Gambit. If you can't win turn 1, you aren't winning.

Tac

Idk why people draw the line here. Pandora's box has been opened with imay, OF COURSE they would print upgrade from her numbers soon or later

dianetics

@Tac said:
Idk why people draw the line here. Pandora's box has been opened with imay, OF COURSE they would print upgrade from her numbers soon or later

This isn't the line. It is more or less the breaking point / tipping point / straw that broke the camels back...however you want to say it.

entrailbucket

@Tac said:
Idk why people draw the line here. Pandora's box has been opened with imay, OF COURSE they would print upgrade from her numbers soon or later

It was easy to look at her and see a one-off, because there really wasn't anybody else doing that sort of thing that well. Getting more probably means she's not that.