New Character - Sidewinder (Seth Voelker) 4*

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:
He’s stupid and broken.
I feel like I am going to be forced to use him.
I can’t get away from 3may or 3namor and now this guy shows up.

To me it feels like…**** synergy and just ultra boost out the ****.
These characters are taking the fun out of the game.

For this guy I'd say it really depends on how exactly he interacts with other match damage boosts. I haven't tested yet to see how that all works.

In general I agree with you about these types of characters, but this seems to be what a lot of players do want.

dianetics

@entrailbucket said:
For this guy I'd say it really depends on how exactly he interacts with other match damage boosts. I haven't tested yet to see how that all works.

In general I agree with you about these types of characters, but this seems to be what a lot of players do want.

I think this is what player don't want. They will use them because they feel like they are forced to. The upside to a character like this is too high, and him being able to send stuff away is a mini bonus.
His boost invalidates the entire roster. Turn 1 match 3 team up ap and boom it is delete worthy boost.
It doesn't matter who you bring with him, he can bring them up.
So Col5 and 4uggernot (because they are match damage reducers) have ANOTHER partner to push down the rest of the roster.
This is flat out bad design.

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:

@entrailbucket said:
For this guy I'd say it really depends on how exactly he interacts with other match damage boosts. I haven't tested yet to see how that all works.

In general I agree with you about these types of characters, but this seems to be what a lot of players do want.

I think this is what player don't want. They will use them because they feel like they are forced to. The upside to a character like this is too high, and him being able to send stuff away is a mini bonus.
His boost invalidates the entire roster. Turn 1 match 3 team up ap and boom it is delete worthy boost.
It doesn't matter who you bring with him, he can bring them up.
So Col5 and 4uggernot (because they are match damage reducers) have ANOTHER partner to push down the rest of the roster.
This is flat out bad design.

I'm not the right person to make this argument, but I guarantee you will get massive pushback from lots of folks if you argue that anyone is too strong.

This is where the game is going and it's where a majority want it to go.

Blackstone

@dianetics said:

@entrailbucket said:
For this guy I'd say it really depends on how exactly he interacts with other match damage boosts. I haven't tested yet to see how that all works.

In general I agree with you about these types of characters, but this seems to be what a lot of players do want.

I think this is what player don't want. They will use them because they feel like they are forced to. The upside to a character like this is too high, and him being able to send stuff away is a mini bonus.
His boost invalidates the entire roster. Turn 1 match 3 team up ap and boom it is delete worthy boost.
It doesn't matter who you bring with him, he can bring them up.
So Col5 and 4uggernot (because they are match damage reducers) have ANOTHER partner to push down the rest of the roster.
This is flat out bad design.

I think I get where you're coming from.

Personally, despise not being able to use the characters I like... Which was the main reason I started playing. There are characters I feel connected to from a lifetime of reading comics, and I have those characters (the ones in game) but can rarely use them if I want to keep up.

I don't mind being forced to pick Namor 3 because he's strong... Because I expect him to be...But Aunt May in a silly iron man costume wielding a frying pan? And some low tier villain that looks like molecule man played an April fool's joke on Thing?

Meanwhile Doom, Magneto, (just the ones coming to mind at the moment) and many other powerful comics characters sit on the bench? Even if they have fun kits, using them is too slow compared to these over powered side characters given the power to delete enemies with barely a thought.

So when I need to climb, I can't pick my favorite characters, I'm forced to select whatever silly thing gets the job done fastest, and use them over and over and over...

If the game is headed to a place where every character can result in a one turn win, I don't know that a real argument can be made that is what players want. If the only goal is to speed run everything to get more rewards so you can do more of the same, what's the point?

Honestly, at this point, I'm just waiting on the Fixer/Techno to be added to the game with a passive that turns off the passives of other characters.

Or a new mode that doesn't require speed, but neither of those feel likely.

Regardless, different people are going to want different things. I don't think there's any real data to confirm what the majority wants... But the majority of those accustomed to sitting on top of their elite "win or you get kicked" alliances likely want want faster and faster ways to win and care little about trivial matters such as character or real choice. They just want faster ways to win.

Anyway, rant complete.

KGB

@Blackstone said:
I don't mind being forced to pick Namor 3 because he's strong... Because I expect him to be...But Aunt May in a silly iron man costume wielding a frying pan? And some low tier villain that looks like molecule man played an April fool's joke on Thing?

This is a common gripe for a lot of comic fans. The better (meta) characters in the game are not powerful entities in the comics. Not sure that can ever be rectified unless we get MPQ 2 which ain't gonna happen.

The best we could hope for is actual rebalances but there seems to be no interest from the long time community in doing that because of LONG ago nerfs being way over done so there is massive resistance to any kind of nerfs no matter how tiny or potentially good for the game.

Regardless, different people are going to want different things. I don't think there's any real data to confirm what the majority wants... But the majority of those accustomed to sitting on top of their elite "win or you get kicked" alliances likely want want faster and faster ways to win and care little about trivial matters such as character or real choice. They just want faster ways to win.

I suspect lots of players are quite happy just mashing a couple of buttons, winning and getting rewards.

I was watching my teenage daughter play Marvel Rivals last night on her PS5 with her boyfriend. He was complaining that all she liked to play was Squirrel Girl. The reason being she is considered the most OP character in that game because she doesn't need to aim or learn to do anything to win, she just releases squirrels that apparently randomly move around damaging opponents. Meanwhile he is learning and playing all the other characters for better or worse. She said she loved how Squirrel Girl plays and is happy winning like that. He isn't interested in the least in that game style. In a way that encompasses what goes on here in MPQ with some players just wanting the most OP thing to win in the easiest way possible to get rewards and others interested in trying out all the different characters and possibilities.

Note that he did say there are plans to nerf Squirrel Girl in that game. So unlike MPQ, Marvel Rivals at least plans to do nerfs to characters in a reasonable time frame.

Or a new mode that doesn't require speed, but neither of those feel likely.

We had this. It was called Quandary. It didn't go over well. They also tried a couple of very limited Heroic boss events and those didn't go over well either.

KGB

entrailbucket

@Blackstone said:

@dianetics said:

@entrailbucket said:
For this guy I'd say it really depends on how exactly he interacts with other match damage boosts. I haven't tested yet to see how that all works.

In general I agree with you about these types of characters, but this seems to be what a lot of players do want.

I think this is what player don't want. They will use them because they feel like they are forced to. The upside to a character like this is too high, and him being able to send stuff away is a mini bonus.
His boost invalidates the entire roster. Turn 1 match 3 team up ap and boom it is delete worthy boost.
It doesn't matter who you bring with him, he can bring them up.
So Col5 and 4uggernot (because they are match damage reducers) have ANOTHER partner to push down the rest of the roster.
This is flat out bad design.

If the game is headed to a place where every character can result in a one turn win, I don't know that a real argument can be made that is what players want. If the only goal is to speed run everything to get more rewards so you can do more of the same, what's the point?

This is exactly what those folks want. They want to "do their MPQ" for the day as quickly and easily as possible, and anything that enables that is unequivocally good. I also don't understand it -- why would anyone want a leisure activity to just be over as quickly as possible? -- but I can accept it. I don't understand lots of things people do.

Anyway I've been arguing with these people for years, and I'm shouted down every time for wanting to "take away their fun" or "telling them they're doing it wrong."

There is no point in arguing about it anymore -- this is what the most vocal veteran players want. Will it change when they get what they want, and every fight is over in one move? I sort of doubt it -- we've mostly been there for awhile now. I don't know how you do this as a "chore" every day and maintain interest, but they've been doing it this way for a long time and don't seem to be going anywhere.

For me, 5* character boosts rejuvenated the game. Every week I get to construct a new team, and that team is always at least as good as the overpowered unboosted characters. I end up fighting the same guys every time, and competitive PvE is not an option, but at least I can play with some variety and use more than two characters on my roster.

Blackstone

@KGB said:

@Blackstone said:
I don't mind being forced to pick Namor 3 because he's strong... Because I expect him to be...But Aunt May in a silly iron man costume wielding a frying pan? And some low tier villain that looks like molecule man played an April fool's joke on Thing?

This is a common gripe for a lot of comic fans. The better (meta) characters in the game are not powerful entities in the comics. Not sure that can ever be rectified unless we get MPQ 2 which ain't gonna happen.

The best we could hope for is actual rebalances but there seems to be no interest from the long time community in doing that because of LONG ago nerfs being way over done so there is massive resistance to any kind of nerfs no matter how tiny or potentially good for the game.

Regardless, different people are going to want different things. I don't think there's any real data to confirm what the majority wants... But the majority of those accustomed to sitting on top of their elite "win or you get kicked" alliances likely want want faster and faster ways to win and care little about trivial matters such as character or real choice. They just want faster ways to win.

I suspect lots of players are quite happy just mashing a couple of buttons, winning and getting rewards.

I was watching my teenage daughter play Marvel Rivals last night on her PS5 with her boyfriend. He was complaining that all she liked to play was Squirrel Girl. The reason being she is considered the most OP character in that game because she doesn't need to aim or learn to do anything to win, she just releases squirrels that apparently randomly move around damaging opponents. Meanwhile he is learning and playing all the other characters for better or worse. She said she loved how Squirrel Girl plays and is happy winning like that. He isn't interested in the least in that game style. In a way that encompasses what goes on here in MPQ with some players just wanting the most OP thing to win in the easiest way possible to get rewards and others interested in trying out all the different characters and possibilities.

Note that he did say there are plans to nerf Squirrel Girl in that game. So unlike MPQ, Marvel Rivals at least plans to do nerfs to characters in a reasonable time frame.

Or a new mode that doesn't require speed, but neither of those feel likely.

We had this. It was called Quandary. It didn't go over well. They also tried a couple of very limited Heroic boss events and those didn't go over well either.

KGB

I enjoyed quandary, but was definitely in the minority there.

I was mostly ranting about things that don't really matter, just my opinions.

I fully recognize others have different opinions and I just won't fit the target audience most things are aimed at.

Blackstone

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:

@dianetics said:

@entrailbucket said:
For this guy I'd say it really depends on how exactly he interacts with other match damage boosts. I haven't tested yet to see how that all works.

In general I agree with you about these types of characters, but this seems to be what a lot of players do want.

I think this is what player don't want. They will use them because they feel like they are forced to. The upside to a character like this is too high, and him being able to send stuff away is a mini bonus.
His boost invalidates the entire roster. Turn 1 match 3 team up ap and boom it is delete worthy boost.
It doesn't matter who you bring with him, he can bring them up.
So Col5 and 4uggernot (because they are match damage reducers) have ANOTHER partner to push down the rest of the roster.
This is flat out bad design.

If the game is headed to a place where every character can result in a one turn win, I don't know that a real argument can be made that is what players want. If the only goal is to speed run everything to get more rewards so you can do more of the same, what's the point?

This is exactly what those folks want. They want to "do their MPQ" for the day as quickly and easily as possible, and anything that enables that is unequivocally good. I also don't understand it -- why would anyone want a leisure activity to just be over as quickly as possible? -- but I can accept it. I don't understand lots of things people do.

Anyway I've been arguing with these people for years, and I'm shouted down every time for wanting to "take away their fun" or "telling them they're doing it wrong."

There is no point in arguing about it anymore -- this is what the most vocal veteran players want. Will it change when they get what they want, and every fight is over in one move? I sort of doubt it -- we've mostly been there for awhile now. I don't know how you do this as a "chore" every day and maintain interest, but they've been doing it this way for a long time and don't seem to be going anywhere.

For me, 5* character boosts rejuvenated the game. Every week I get to construct a new team, and that team is always at least as good as the overpowered unboosted characters. I end up fighting the same guys every time, and competitive PvE is not an option, but at least I can play with some variety and use more than two characters on my roster.

Yeah, it is what it is.

Which is why I stick to casual play. I'll play the must have teams when I really need something, but I don't otherwise bother with chasing placement.

Planning your whole day around getting the timing just right so you can frantically run through the nodes as quickly as possible sounds like the opposite of fun to me.

To reach their own, I guess.

Carnage1484

Also what's going on with his leg? His pants have a bordering on offensive crease

He didn’t come up with Sidewinder randomly…

entrailbucket

The actual problem with this guy is that he doesn't increase his own match damage, so no matter what his 5* numbers look like, he's going to be worse as a 5* (because he'll tank).

That is bad design (I'll ascend him anyway -- everybody to 550!).

fight4thedream

@Blackstone said:

@dianetics said:

@entrailbucket said:
For this guy I'd say it really depends on how exactly he interacts with other match damage boosts. I haven't tested yet to see how that all works.

In general I agree with you about these types of characters, but this seems to be what a lot of players do want.

I think this is what player don't want. They will use them because they feel like they are forced to. The upside to a character like this is too high, and him being able to send stuff away is a mini bonus.
His boost invalidates the entire roster. Turn 1 match 3 team up ap and boom it is delete worthy boost.
It doesn't matter who you bring with him, he can bring them up.
So Col5 and 4uggernot (because they are match damage reducers) have ANOTHER partner to push down the rest of the roster.
This is flat out bad design.

I think I get where you're coming from.

Personally, despise not being able to use the characters I like... Which was the main reason I started playing. There are characters I feel connected to from a lifetime of reading comics, and I have those characters (the ones in game) but can rarely use them if I want to keep up.

I don't mind being forced to pick Namor 3 because he's strong... Because I expect him to be...But Aunt May in a silly iron man costume wielding a frying pan? And some low tier villain that looks like molecule man played an April fool's joke on Thing?

Meanwhile Doom, Magneto, (just the ones coming to mind at the moment) and many other powerful comics characters sit on the bench? Even if they have fun kits, using them is too slow compared to these over powered side characters given the power to delete enemies with barely a thought.

So when I need to climb, I can't pick my favorite characters, I'm forced to select whatever silly thing gets the job done fastest, and use them over and over and over...

If the game is headed to a place where every character can result in a one turn win, I don't know that a real argument can be made that is what players want. If the only goal is to speed run everything to get more rewards so you can do more of the same, what's the point?

Honestly, at this point, I'm just waiting on the Fixer/Techno to be added to the game with a passive that turns off the passives of other characters.

Or a new mode that doesn't require speed, but neither of those feel likely.

Regardless, different people are going to want different things. I don't think there's any real data to confirm what the majority wants... But the majority of those accustomed to sitting on top of their elite "win or you get kicked" alliances likely want want faster and faster ways to win and care little about trivial matters such as character or real choice. They just want faster ways to win.

Anyway, rant complete.

I wish I could give this post more likes. Pretty much sums up how I feel about the current state of the game.

Waddles_Pines

I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

LavaManLee

@Waddles_Pines said:
I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

It would be ironic if that power would be a passive itself. :-)

I get where you are coming from. Something has to happen with passives and supports.

entrailbucket

@Waddles_Pines said:
I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

They can't do this. They've talked about it before.

The problem has to do with how complicated some powers have gotten. There are active powers that put a thing on the board, with a passive component that does something if the thing exists. There are also detrimental passives like 5* Riri, where they're using the passive to put a downside on something, and disabling it creates even more problems.

Folks have been talking about this character forever, and it made sense when the problematic passives were, like, 3* Iron Fist (yes, people thought that passive was an issue!), but we're so far beyond that sort of thing now that I cannot see this ever happening.

revskip

@entrailbucket said:

@Waddles_Pines said:
I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

They can't do this. They've talked about it before.

The problem has to do with how complicated some powers have gotten. There are active powers that put a thing on the board, with a passive component that does something if the thing exists. There are also detrimental passives like 5* Riri, where they're using the passive to put a downside on something, and disabling it creates even more problems.

Folks have been talking about this character forever, and it made sense when the problematic passives were, like, 3* Iron Fist (yes, people thought that passive was an issue!), but we're so far beyond that sort of thing now that I cannot see this ever happening.

That and the fact that such a character would immediately become THE META since it shuts down so many other things. It would be all but required in every match.

DAZ0273

We saw what happened with Chasm's turn 1 stun, a passive killing passive might just explode the game.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@Waddles_Pines said:
I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

They can't do this. They've talked about it before.

The problem has to do with how complicated some powers have gotten. There are active powers that put a thing on the board, with a passive component that does something if the thing exists. There are also detrimental passives like 5* Riri, where they're using the passive to put a downside on something, and disabling it creates even more problems.

Folks have been talking about this character forever, and it made sense when the problematic passives were, like, 3* Iron Fist (yes, people thought that passive was an issue!), but we're so far beyond that sort of thing now that I cannot see this ever happening.

Also consider the fact that a stun effectively disables passives for 99% of the cases. So a character who disabled passives is technically weaker than a character who can just straight out stun an opponent (assuming a character who disabled passives could only disable 1 other character at a time). This is why stun lock teams are so prized (Polaris/BrB, Riri/MThor etc).

In a roundabout way they could emulate disabling passives via stuns. So Leech could 'randomly stun one opponent each turn' type thing to disable the passive for 1 turn.

Supports and passives on them are something else entirely. It would be cool to create a character who could strip a support off another character for that battle. That kind of thing should be do-able.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Waddles_Pines said:
I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

They can't do this. They've talked about it before.

The problem has to do with how complicated some powers have gotten. There are active powers that put a thing on the board, with a passive component that does something if the thing exists. There are also detrimental passives like 5* Riri, where they're using the passive to put a downside on something, and disabling it creates even more problems.

Folks have been talking about this character forever, and it made sense when the problematic passives were, like, 3* Iron Fist (yes, people thought that passive was an issue!), but we're so far beyond that sort of thing now that I cannot see this ever happening.

Also consider the fact that a stun effectively disables passives for 99% of the cases. So a character who disabled passives is technically weaker than a character who can just straight out stun an opponent (assuming a character who disabled passives could only disable 1 other character at a time). This is why stun lock teams are so prized (Polaris/BrB, Riri/MThor etc).

In a roundabout way they could emulate disabling passives via stuns. So Leech could 'randomly stun one opponent each turn' type thing to disable the passive for 1 turn.

Supports and passives on them are something else entirely. It would be cool to create a character who could strip a support off another character for that battle. That kind of thing should be do-able.

KGB

And...like...the character you describe is super strong but would have zero actual impact on a bunch of these teams, unless he managed to hit Chasm turn 0.

Even a guy who turned off passives would be worthless as a counter, because I just bring Chasm and stun everyone turn 0, or boost/support some other stun guy, which turns off the anti passive guy anyway. It's functionally the same reason we'll never get a "Polaris killer" -- she has a cheap 4 turn stun, so she can just knock out anybody who's messing with her.

The only way to create viable counters for these guys is to start putting stun immunity on guys, but that's not enough by itself, or we'd all be running Silver Surfer. You need super strong defensive passives + stun immunity, and that creates an entirely new class of problems.

Imagine some guy who reduced all incoming damage to 1 and had stun/away/airborne immunity -- what am I even supposed to do against that?

The final possibility is a bridge I've wondered about for awhile...what if they created super powerful but extremely narrow characters that just instakilled one particular problematic guy as soon as you start the fight? Like give us a guy with a passive that says, "if Chasm/m'Thor /M'baku/whoever is on the enemy team, down him at battle start."

Short of something like that there are no counters anymore.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Waddles_Pines said:
I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

They can't do this. They've talked about it before.

The problem has to do with how complicated some powers have gotten. There are active powers that put a thing on the board, with a passive component that does something if the thing exists. There are also detrimental passives like 5* Riri, where they're using the passive to put a downside on something, and disabling it creates even more problems.

Folks have been talking about this character forever, and it made sense when the problematic passives were, like, 3* Iron Fist (yes, people thought that passive was an issue!), but we're so far beyond that sort of thing now that I cannot see this ever happening.

Also consider the fact that a stun effectively disables passives for 99% of the cases. So a character who disabled passives is technically weaker than a character who can just straight out stun an opponent (assuming a character who disabled passives could only disable 1 other character at a time). This is why stun lock teams are so prized (Polaris/BrB, Riri/MThor etc).

In a roundabout way they could emulate disabling passives via stuns. So Leech could 'randomly stun one opponent each turn' type thing to disable the passive for 1 turn.

Supports and passives on them are something else entirely. It would be cool to create a character who could strip a support off another character for that battle. That kind of thing should be do-able.

KGB

The final possibility is a bridge I've wondered about for awhile...what if they created super powerful but extremely narrow characters that just instakilled one particular problematic guy as soon as you start the fight? Like give us a guy with a passive that says, "if Chasm/m'Thor /M'baku/whoever is on the enemy team, down him at battle start."

I've wondered about the exact same thing (maybe it at least requires a match-4 to activate because if the defensive team had it you'd lose your mind if your character was downed instantly). I've been thinking it could be called 'arch-nemesis' and every character would have this as a tag with at least 1 arch nemesis. Then if you face your arch-nemesis you down them (or they down you) on a match-4. So say Wolverine-Sabretooth type thing.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Waddles_Pines said:
I feel like they gotta have a character like Leech in the works. Someone who disables passives...

They can't do this. They've talked about it before.

The problem has to do with how complicated some powers have gotten. There are active powers that put a thing on the board, with a passive component that does something if the thing exists. There are also detrimental passives like 5* Riri, where they're using the passive to put a downside on something, and disabling it creates even more problems.

Folks have been talking about this character forever, and it made sense when the problematic passives were, like, 3* Iron Fist (yes, people thought that passive was an issue!), but we're so far beyond that sort of thing now that I cannot see this ever happening.

Also consider the fact that a stun effectively disables passives for 99% of the cases. So a character who disabled passives is technically weaker than a character who can just straight out stun an opponent (assuming a character who disabled passives could only disable 1 other character at a time). This is why stun lock teams are so prized (Polaris/BrB, Riri/MThor etc).

In a roundabout way they could emulate disabling passives via stuns. So Leech could 'randomly stun one opponent each turn' type thing to disable the passive for 1 turn.

Supports and passives on them are something else entirely. It would be cool to create a character who could strip a support off another character for that battle. That kind of thing should be do-able.

KGB

The final possibility is a bridge I've wondered about for awhile...what if they created super powerful but extremely narrow characters that just instakilled one particular problematic guy as soon as you start the fight? Like give us a guy with a passive that says, "if Chasm/m'Thor /M'baku/whoever is on the enemy team, down him at battle start."

I've wondered about the exact same thing (maybe it at least requires a match-4 to activate because if the defensive team had it you'd lose your mind if your character was downed instantly). I've been thinking it could be called 'arch-nemesis' and every character would have this as a tag. If so if you face your arch-nemesis you down them (or they down you) on a match-4. So say Wolverine-Sabretooth type thing.

KGB

You couldn't do that (or rather, you could...it just wouldn't work as a counter!) because this current set of teams wins before you even move the board.