Nerf.... some people (split from Cover Swap thread)

Borstock

@BriMan2222 said:

show previous quotes

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also **they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.
**
Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

BriMan2222

@Borstock said:

show previous quotes

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

Borstock

@BriMan2222 said:

show previous quotes

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

I have. And my placement there is always better. Because I don't have to score 2600 points to t50.

I invite you to join my slice, but NOT coordinating with the Line room or Discord or whatever. See how well you do on your own.

BriMan2222

@Borstock said:

show previous quotes

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

I have. And my placement there is always better. Because I don't have to score 2600 points to t50.

I invite you to join my slice, but NOT coordinating with the Line room or Discord or whatever. See how well you do on your own.

Have you read anything I've said???? I've stated several times that I do and have done that. Slice 4 is where us slice 2 people go when we want a break from real pvp.

Yeah, it's not real hard to climb to 1200 and # and then shield hop for 200 points per hop on cupcakes. You don't need to be in the room, just pay attention to when the people at the top start to un shield and que them up with their grill teams.

Borstock

@BriMan2222 said:

show previous quotes

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

I have. And my placement there is always better. Because I don't have to score 2600 points to t50.

I invite you to join my slice, but NOT coordinating with the Line room or Discord or whatever. See how well you do on your own.

Have you read anything I've said???? I've stated several times that I do and have done that. Slice 4 is where is slice 2 people go when we want a break from real pvp.

Yeah, it's not real hard to climb to 1200 and # and then shield hop for 200 points per hop on cupcakes. You don't need to be in the room, just pay attention to when the people at the top start to un shield and que them up.

I've read everything you said. And I disagree with most of it.

Fighting against people who are teaming is harder for placement than a free for all.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

Re: Juggernaut - this is what I'm seeing a lot this PvP. I might actually attack this team because they aren't taking support AP. This team is out, floating.

That's not that bad. It's not great (why exactly does Nova have so much health?), but they're not going to wreck you turn 1. Also I'd much rather fight one with Eros Arrow equipped than Implanted Bomb.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:

show previous quotes

@Borstock said:

Re: Juggernaut - this is what I'm seeing a lot this PvP. I might actually attack this team because they aren't taking support AP. This team is out, floating.

That's not that bad. It's not great (why exactly does Nova have so much health?), but they're not going to wreck you turn 1. Also I'd much rather fight one with Eros Arrow equipped than Implanted Bomb.

Like I said.... I might actually attack that one. It was just an example of the kind of Juggernaut I see. I don't agree with this user's choice of supports.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

show previous quotes

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

I have. And my placement there is always better. Because I don't have to score 2600 points to t50.

I invite you to join my slice, but NOT coordinating with the Line room or Discord or whatever. See how well you do on your own.

Have you read anything I've said???? I've stated several times that I do and have done that. Slice 4 is where is slice 2 people go when we want a break from real pvp.

Yeah, it's not real hard to climb to 1200 and # and then shield hop for 200 points per hop on cupcakes. You don't need to be in the room, just pay attention to when the people at the top start to un shield and que them up.

I've read everything you said. And I disagree with most of it.

Fighting against people who are teaming is harder for placement than a free for all.

I've been liking both of your posts because I think you both make some valid points. If you're not coordinating at all in an s1 or s4 I bet it can be pretty unpleasant.

S2 isn't how it used to be (we never focused on building points but we used to coordinate our attacks much better, and generally try a lot harder), but the overall lack of points is going to paint a huge target on anyone that crosses 1000 or so.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:

show previous quotes

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

I have. And my placement there is always better. Because I don't have to score 2600 points to t50.

I invite you to join my slice, but NOT coordinating with the Line room or Discord or whatever. See how well you do on your own.

Have you read anything I've said???? I've stated several times that I do and have done that. Slice 4 is where is slice 2 people go when we want a break from real pvp.

Yeah, it's not real hard to climb to 1200 and # and then shield hop for 200 points per hop on cupcakes. You don't need to be in the room, just pay attention to when the people at the top start to un shield and que them up.

I've read everything you said. And I disagree with most of it.

Fighting against people who are teaming is harder for placement than a free for all.

I've been liking both of your posts because I think you both make some valid points. If you're not coordinating at all in an s1 or s4 I bet it can be pretty unpleasant.

S2 isn't how it used to be (we never focused on building points but we used to coordinate our attacks much better, and generally try a lot harder), but the overall lack of points is going to paint a huge target on anyone that crosses 1000 or so.

Yeah, but 1000 has gotten me t10 in that slice.

BriMan2222

@Borstock said:

show previous quotes

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

I have. And my placement there is always better. Because I don't have to score 2600 points to t50.

I invite you to join my slice, but NOT coordinating with the Line room or Discord or whatever. See how well you do on your own.

Have you read anything I've said???? I've stated several times that I do and have done that. Slice 4 is where is slice 2 people go when we want a break from real pvp.

Yeah, it's not real hard to climb to 1200 and # and then shield hop for 200 points per hop on cupcakes. You don't need to be in the room, just pay attention to when the people at the top start to un shield and que them up.

I've read everything you said. And I disagree with most of it.

Fighting against people who are teaming is harder for placement than a free for all.

Cool. It seems like you'd rather be dismissive and abrasive towards anyone with a different point of view than engage in an actual discussion, so I'll just bow out before this devolves further. For what it's worth, I've tried really hard not to return all the snark that's been thrown at me and keep to factual discussion of my own experiences.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

show previous quotes

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

Re: Juggernaut - this is what I'm seeing a lot this PvP. I might actually attack this team because they aren't taking support AP. This team is out, floating.

That's not that bad. It's not great (why exactly does Nova have so much health?), but they're not going to wreck you turn 1. Also I'd much rather fight one with Eros Arrow equipped than Implanted Bomb.

Like I said.... I might actually attack that one. It was just an example of the kind of Juggernaut I see. I don't agree with this user's choice of supports.

No, I see what you mean. The real problem with Juggernaut is his health, though. It's a different issue than Spidey. How do you feel about Yelena? I actually use her the most out of any of them.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

show previous quotes

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

I did see havok, you know who ran him? The big whales that have everyone at 550. You didn't see him everywhere because who has a 550 havok? Only the biggest whales.

Who has 550 1a5? Anyone with 20 dollars. They aren't so much better than regular 5 stars, they're just much more attainable.

I fight plenty of whales. I scored 4400 in last PvP and came in 16th place. If you think for one second I wasn't fighting whales, you're incorrect.

I saw 1 Havok. One. He was part of someone's seal team.

Well I can tell you the biggest whales in slice 2 who comes in first place each and every event was running havok all boost week, and they don't play seal teams.

Often the big guys in slice 2 are playing teams that the masses aren't, and most times those teams end up being much deadlier.

I fought hoards of 1a5 spider man teams last week and didn't even come close to losing to a single one of them

Well, good for you. I play in a real slice.

I play in a slice where everyone is playing against each other and you play in one of the ones where everybody holds hands and cooperates, but you're in a " real one"..

I don't, actually. I play in a slice where everyone gangs up on me because I don't participate in the coordination. So, I have coordinated attacks against me all the time. But, please, tell me more about how your experience is harder when you're in a far weaker slice that apparently doesn't team up on you.

Who said no one teams up on me? I have to # and then hop to 1200 and I can't stay out for more than like 2 minutes if I don't want to wind up being minus 200 points while I hit someone for 30.

How exactly is my slice weaker? There's like 7 guys that all have nearly everyone at 550 and stay out all event to hit the heck out of anyone that tries to climb.

I've played in slice 1 and slice. It's not hard to shield hop for 3 or for 70 point teams in one hop over and over again until you reach over 2000 points. This slice are where I go to vacation on easy mode.

I scored 4400 and came in SIXTEENTH. That's how your slice is weaker.

So needing more points to get good placement is weaker? No, artificially pumping up scores through coordination doesn't make your slice stronger, it makes it weaker.

Try playing in one where there are no 70 point cupcake teams and you have to actually fight real teams for 25 or 30 points.

Are you seriously asking if it's a disadvantage to have people actively coordinating their efforts against you? Where someone can say to a room full of whales "hey, Borstock is out, who's here to hit him."

Also they don't even have to hit me. They can just coordinate to a point total I can't reach.

Your slice is a cake walk by comparison.

Then come play there then. I'm sure you'll receive an extremely warm welcome and you can tell us all how easy it was. You'll get far better placement with with far less points too. Seems like the obvious solution is to just come join us where it's oh so easy peasy.

I have. And my placement there is always better. Because I don't have to score 2600 points to t50.

I invite you to join my slice, but NOT coordinating with the Line room or Discord or whatever. See how well you do on your own.

Have you read anything I've said???? I've stated several times that I do and have done that. Slice 4 is where is slice 2 people go when we want a break from real pvp.

Yeah, it's not real hard to climb to 1200 and # and then shield hop for 200 points per hop on cupcakes. You don't need to be in the room, just pay attention to when the people at the top start to un shield and que them up.

I've read everything you said. And I disagree with most of it.

Fighting against people who are teaming is harder for placement than a free for all.

I've been liking both of your posts because I think you both make some valid points. If you're not coordinating at all in an s1 or s4 I bet it can be pretty unpleasant.

S2 isn't how it used to be (we never focused on building points but we used to coordinate our attacks much better, and generally try a lot harder), but the overall lack of points is going to paint a huge target on anyone that crosses 1000 or so.

Yeah, but 1000 has gotten me t10 in that slice.

Yep, if you catch the ultra-rare 3rd CL10 bracket that's almost a guarantee. In the first two it's less common. But also, it can be tough to get to 1000 sometimes!

Scofie

I find the above conversation really interesting. Two players of seemingly similar roster strength finding experiences of both slices very different. It was loosely tangential to the topic, so I'll not split it out.

As for the 672 Jugg, I took down one with the Time Stone earlier, along with a 672 Storm with Krakoa. I used 5* Nova with Leapfrog and 4Deadpool5 with Power Stone. No problem at all. Much easier than I'd thought it might be.

Daredevil217

To me this back and forth just reads “who’s the bigger victim”. I play almost exactly the same as Borstock. I don’t coordinate. I don’t pay attention to what other players are doing. I play in 1 or 4 because I only care about progression and I’ll never get a stone. I’m not in any rooms. Do people coordinate attacks against me? I don’t know because I’m not in those rooms. I assume people attack me because I play at suboptimal times and am one of the only players worth points. I assume that because I’ve hit the same team over and over because it’s the only one out worth 20 points and everyone else is worth 5. It’s never personal for me because I’m not even looking at the names of who I hit. So I don’t play victim and assume people are out to get me. If it’s a bloodbath I play for 50 wins. Other times I can cruise to 1200 unshielded getting hit like once. I take the good with the bad and don’t really complain. I’ve been banned from line rooms for hitting the wrong person. I told him it wasn’t personal but he was IRATE. I just kept it moving.

TLDR: I play the exact same slices and non-coordinated way Borstock does and have never found it difficult.

As for Spidey/Juggs a character being really good at 672 is not a cause for a nerf IMO but I’m pretty anti-nerf in general unless it’s a Bishop situation where I can’t play the game. Most characters, including the dreaded MThor and Polaris have solutions. Who ever said they didn’t come close to losing to a Spidey team, I agree. Offensively he’s goated on his boost weeks (which is why I like playing him) but he’s a joke defensively. Very easy to take down because he lacks any passives. He’s just health and low cost nukes which most new characters are now. People just don’t have them at 672 so play the ones they do have.

entrailbucket

As soon as someone suggests a nerf it immediately gets flipped into "salty player can't figure out how to beat a totally reasonable team, demands other people's fun be taken away," but the actual complaint here is pretty nuanced and specific.

It's about the interaction between cheap random boardshake powers, free AP supports, and additional random boardshake via supports. There are several ways to address that specific situation short of "nerf Spidey and Juggernaut into the ground." Getting randomly cascaded to death turn 1 isn't very fun, and probably shouldn't happen.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:
It's about the interaction between cheap random boardshake powers, free AP supports, and additional random boardshake via supports. There are several ways to address that specific situation short of "nerf Spidey and Juggernaut into the ground." Getting randomly cascaded to death turn 1 isn't very fun, and probably shouldn't happen.

The easiest one that would annoy the least number of players is to just change it so that AI supports CAN NEVER acquire AP. Player supports would continue to function normally but the AI just would never be able to start with AP from supports. Problem solved.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

show previous quotes

@entrailbucket said:
It's about the interaction between cheap random boardshake powers, free AP supports, and additional random boardshake via supports. There are several ways to address that specific situation short of "nerf Spidey and Juggernaut into the ground." Getting randomly cascaded to death turn 1 isn't very fun, and probably shouldn't happen.

The easiest one that would annoy the least number of players is to just change it so that AI supports CAN NEVER acquire AP. Player supports would continue to function normally but the AI just would never be able to start with AP from supports. Problem solved.

KGB

That strikes me as a bigger move than what's strictly needed to address this problem, but maybe it's something they end up having to do.

In the very very early days, the first set of devs created a bunch of extremely cheap boardshake powers that all had to get nerfed eventually, and eventually they just ended up removing anything below a certain cost. That was done to prevent boosting your way into a consistent turn 0 win. With supports the threshold is much higher though, which makes everything much tougher to balance.

It's also complicated by the fact that there's two 6ap supports in green, purple, and yellow, only one in black and red, and none in blue.