Nerf.... some people (split from Cover Swap thread)

entrailbucket

@Chrynos1989 said:
I‘m with slidecage here (not the cursing part, the pure solo part).
At the moment Pve is just Pvp light

They've really got it entirely backwards -- the player vs enemy mode is cutthroat and extremely competitive, and the player vs player mode is friendly and cooperative.

I said it in another thread, but I really think it's down to the rewards on offer in each mode. PvE placement rewards are really good and PvP placement rewards are terrible, so of course players will compete harder in the mode that incentivizes competition.

WhiteBomber

"Player Versus Environment". Sassy mode deactivated.

slidecage

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
Sick of people **** saying I want this person nerf cause they are too powerful and I dint have them and it's not fair. But you better not even think of touching the overpowered person I'm using or all hell is going to break loose

Simple way is make pve pure solo

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that.

Every character has ways to kill them in PvP. Some are just slower to fight, or harder to beat, or RNG can beat you with them. I think it's down to what you find fun to play against. I don't mind fighting MThor and if I fall against the cascade onslaught then so be it. For others that kills their fun and I absolutely understand: if you detest losing and play a lot of PvP then you'll hate it because she is everywhere! I hate fighting Colossus, OR, Chasm teams personally. If every skip gave me variations of that team, I'd hate it too.

On Golden May, I think the point is that competitive PvE is now a case of those that use her win and those that don't, can't win. It also can't get any quicker so the future of the game is unlikely to change. I don't use her and I can't get T10 in a later bracket in my optimal slice. One day, I might try and see what happens but it's not fun for me to not match 3 in a "match 3" game. Some people will play that way to win and not enjoy it, and others will love clearing the game in 15 minutes per day to get the top prizes.

In summary, it's not so much a case of sour grapes over individual characters, more a comment over the practical impacts on playing the game for fun where the opponents you face have such an impact on your enjoyment.

lets take this farer lets ban MVP cause i cant affored 10 bucks per month
Lets ban all offers in the store since i dont have cash to buy them people buying these offers gives them an advantage

lets ban i opened up a lot of LL and CP to get my Golden may to 508 do i use them... just on boss events cause i really dont care about pvp or pve placment

phone died on me so didnt get to the point

make PVE solo progression with no rankings

They really need to neft the engine cause its not fair when i try to take 2 red stones with a green and it will not count as a match 3

they neft may then i will never spend another cent on this game lol what am i talking about not spending cash now Really though maybe 5 years ago when i wanted top 50 i would **** but now im happy to take top 500 in pve and top 150 in pvp

real life is just getting to be the same in a way.. i put up pokemon and sportscards in stores. in the last 3 weeks i heard people say

IF im not allowed to buy the pokemon cards when they come in im not going to be coming to this store anymore..

As soon as they leave the manager calls them a dumbass and dont give a damn about them cause there are 100s more coming in that will spend money .. im sure this company is thinking the same way

revskip

@slidecage said:
Sick of people **** saying I want this person nerf cause they are too powerful and I dint have them and it's not fair. But you better not even think of touching the overpowered person I'm using or all hell is going to break loose

Simple way is make pve pure solo

I have Mighty Thor at 550. I want her nerfed not because I don't have her but because she invalidates wide swaths of other characters from being used when she is in play. Does your character make SAPs? Can't use them. Make traps? Can't use them. Make countdowns? Can't use them. Make repeaters, even fortified repeaters? Can't use them. Any character that straight up kills that many different types of characters needs to be brought back in line. Healthy game play is a bunch of different play types being viable. She invalidates all of that by her very presence. She's not unbeatable at all but absolutely not balanced.

I'd be fine with a Aunt May nerf too, again have her at 550 and she speeds things way up for PvE but she is pretty much necessary for placement and that's not healthy either.

Buffs are awesome and they should keep happening. Bring the bottom guys to the mean. But also bring the top guys back to the mean. Don't nerf them into oblivion but bring them back to the middle so that multiple play styles are available. When it is rock versus paper versus scissor it is a lot more fun that when it is just rock.

LavaManLee

Nerfing is such a slippery slope. People paid actual money to chase certain characters and you risk some wrath by nerfing too much. Personally, I'm never in favor in nerfing when it's a game where you have to pay for characters. If you want to buff, great. But don't nerf.

BriMan2222

@LavaManLee said:
Nerfing is such a slippery slope. People paid actual money to chase certain characters and you risk some wrath by nerfing too much. Personally, I'm never in favor in nerfing when it's a game where you have to pay for characters. If you want to buff, great. But don't nerf.

Nerfs are a healthy part of a balanced game imo. I played another mobile game that never ever nerfed, and the result was more and more OP characters. Each new release the characters got stronger and the newest characters were so much better than anyone else that you had to either pay a boat load or grind like crazy to be able to stay competitive.

I'd much rather a balanced game than play one like that again.

LavaManLee

And I personally would not want that. Again, people pay actual money for those characters. Nerfing, again this might just be me, has to be the last resort.

entrailbucket

There are plenty of other games where players pay money for stuff and then that stuff is made less effective (or straight up banned). In fact, I'd struggle to think of a single successful (multiplayer, competitive) game that doesn't make changes like this. In other communities, changes like that are often celebrated, because they make gameplay more diverse and fun, allowing more viable strategies to exist.

I really don't know why the MPQ community is the way it is about this stuff, but it's extremely weird.

entrailbucket

Actually, I take it back -- I do know why the MPQ community is weird about this stuff. We've got sort of a fundamental disagreement about what the game is, and it's reflected in the attitude towards character changes.

If MPQ is a roster building game, and the match-3 stuff is just a way to build your characters, then the actual match-3 stuff is kind of irrelevant. You just want to get it over with so you can get to the stuff you really like, and you actually prefer to use the same overpowered characters forever because they allow you to do that.

If MPQ is a match-3 game, the gameplay matters, and overpowered characters make the gameplay boring and stagnant.

I suppose most people won't be strictly to one side or the other, but maybe we can try to at least understand each other's perspectives.

One more thing -- the "roster building" people vastly outnumber the "match-3" people in the veteran/high level community, because the game (and its metagame) stagnated for so long under the last set of devs. Most of the folks who really enjoyed the gameplay over the roster building aspects got bored and gave up over the years.

WhiteBomber

@entrailbucket said:
One more thing -- the "roster building" people vastly outnumber the "match-3" people in the veteran/high level community, because the game (and its metagame) stagnated for so long under the last set of devs. Most of the folks who really enjoyed the gameplay over the roster building aspects got bored and gave up over the years.

But then we came back! In hopes that they added actual live PvP... turns out, they did not. At least the new characters made it fun enough to keep playing though.

Chasm was a pretty successful rebalance, and still quite relevant. Anything is possible; some might say, not even that difficult to do. Luckily nothing is so OP right now that it's ruining the game (though I'm sure some will say it is).

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:

@entrailbucket said:
One more thing -- the "roster building" people vastly outnumber the "match-3" people in the veteran/high level community, because the game (and its metagame) stagnated for so long under the last set of devs. Most of the folks who really enjoyed the gameplay over the roster building aspects got bored and gave up over the years.

But then we came back! In hopes that they added actual live PvP... turns out, they did not. At least the new characters made it fun enough to keep playing though.

Chasm was a pretty successful rebalance, and still quite relevant. Anything is possible; some might say, not even that difficult to do. Luckily nothing is so OP right now that it's ruining the game (though I'm sure some will say it is).

A few have come back and I'm glad they did!

We're still outnumbered though.

Borstock

I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

Daredevil217

I’m sure that will go over well with the many many people who have them as their only 550s. None of those guys are nerf-worthy.

Borstock

@Daredevil217 said:
I’m sure that will go over well with the many many people who have them as their only 550s. None of those guys are nerf-worthy.

They're very nerf worthy. They're not politically sound nerfs, but which ones are? The entitlement at that level is absurd. You're telling me they'll all stop playing if Spectacular Strategy costs 8 AP?

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

@Daredevil217 said:
I’m sure that will go over well with the many many people who have them as their only 550s. None of those guys are nerf-worthy.

They're very nerf worthy. They're not politically sound nerfs, but which ones are? The entitlement at that level is absurd. You're telling me they'll all stop playing if Spectacular Strategy costs 8 AP?

Are you seeing people run them with the free AP supports? I never see this -- I rarely see the 1* at all, and when I do they're not running these anymore.

Does leapfrog work? Headbutt can't hit though it, but I guess Spidey can cascade you through it.

BriMan2222

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

Scofie

I wonder if ascended characters should have their own boost cycle (i.e. not tied to their original rarity but to the new one) but that becomes incredibly complex to manage.

The other option is to have one new cycle for ascended characters on a relatively equal basis. So your 1* Juggs is boosted every few weeks, but the ascended versions at any other ☆ level is every 10 weeks, along with 10% of various tiers of other characters.

FWIW, I don't mind the 1ascended5s (and I didn't buy any of them). Sure it's a pain fighting them when they're boosted with good supports but I'd echo the sentiment that it's not the they're too good, it's that they're good too often.

DAZ0273

Like Scofie I will fight the 1a5s but the very regular boost for the 1* is clearly an unintended perk and is little different to cover swaps previously getting the new character boost, probably players who bought them have got their value from them now and they should be put on a longer loop like the other 5*.

Borstock

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:
I'm not reading 5 pages.

I'm tired of losing to 672 one star characters like Spidey and Juggs who can just immediately nuke your entire team. Those characters desperately need to be nerfed at higher levels.

In the last event where he was boosted, a lvl 672 havok could do that too. There are a lot of characters that can do that at 672. A 672 being able to wreck your team isn't an indication they need to be nerfed. Look instead at the characters that don't need to be boosted to 672 to wreck your team.

If this argument had merit, I would've seen Havok. I didn't. He was nowhere to be found. But EVERY high end team last PvP was running the Spider. And now, the big ones are running Juggs. They aren't even shielding. They're floating. Out.

Let me be clear, I dealt with them. I scored over 4k in the last PvP, finished top 25, and I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about placement. I'm complaining about the freaking Spectacular Strategy on turn 1 that either does or basically does end the match. It's dumb. Always has been. If Rhodey's critical nuke and May's boost can be nerfed at the 5* level, there's no good reason why these 1* characters shouldn't at least have these cheap powers that werent designed for this level also nerfed.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@Daredevil217 said:
I’m sure that will go over well with the many many people who have them as their only 550s. None of those guys are nerf-worthy.

They're very nerf worthy. They're not politically sound nerfs, but which ones are? The entitlement at that level is absurd. You're telling me they'll all stop playing if Spectacular Strategy costs 8 AP?

Are you seeing people run them with the free AP supports? I never see this -- I rarely see the 1* at all, and when I do they're not running these anymore.

Does leapfrog work? Headbutt can't hit though it, but I guess Spidey can cascade you through it.

When boosted, after my initial climb, every single team I saw last PvP ran Spidey. After my initial climb today, every top team I saw had Juggs.

Leapfrog does help. So does Chasm, if you have someone to team him with. I do. But even then, the other team also usually brings Fantasticar and purple supports. So, turn 0, they have 12 purple, throw the nuke. If the crits don't kill the invisible tile, the car usually does. If the car doesn't get it, the second Spectacular Strategy on turn 2 does it. And usually all this means they get to fire it a third time on turn 3. I also see people who bring their own Leapfrog as an alt support.