one 550 screws up your entire pvp

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
Probably the only thing that needs looking at with the 1* is the regularity of how often they are boosted. There is a disproportionate advantage there that other equivalent 5* don't get normally.

I'm not sure they'd still be worth $20 if that was the case. You'd upset a lot of folks who spent money.

Didn't a lot of folk spend money on other 5* too? Probably a lot more than 20 bucks. 20 bucks should not be worth a never ending advantage.

Is it really a never ending advantage, though? These don't make you unbeatable at all. They're probably "worth" more than $20 if you compare to other stuff the game sells, but I don't think they're so strong that they need to be nerfed (and reducing their boost rotation is absolutely a nerf).

Besides, the same "advantage" is available to everyone -- you just have to fork over the equivalent of a few cups of coffee!

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
Probably the only thing that needs looking at with the 1* is the regularity of how often they are boosted. There is a disproportionate advantage there that other equivalent 5* don't get normally.

I'm not sure they'd still be worth $20 if that was the case. You'd upset a lot of folks who spent money.

Didn't a lot of folk spend money on other 5* too? Probably a lot more than 20 bucks. 20 bucks should not be worth a never ending advantage.

Is it really a never ending advantage, though? These don't make you unbeatable at all. They're probably "worth" more than $20 if you compare to other stuff the game sells, but I don't think they're so strong that they need to be nerfed (and reducing their boost rotation is absolutely a nerf).

Besides, the same "advantage" is available to everyone -- you just have to fork over the equivalent of a few cups of coffee!

I mean I don't really have much of a dog in this fight so I have zero hills to die on but I am still not understanding why once they become a 5* character they should be treated any differently than the other 5*? Likewise the Ascended 4s don't get any advantage in terms of regular boosting. Also if they are no big deal about beating them then surely it is no big deal if they get their boost rotation lessoned? Also aren't you the guy who always wants diverse teams to fight against? Isn't this the opposite of that if players are overly reliant on boosted 1a5 because it happens so often? Should we boost Jane, Omega or any of the other meta at the same rate?

It can't be both ways. Or maybe it can? I dunno.

At the end of the day though this is how it is so hey ho.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
Probably the only thing that needs looking at with the 1* is the regularity of how often they are boosted. There is a disproportionate advantage there that other equivalent 5* don't get normally.

I'm not sure they'd still be worth $20 if that was the case. You'd upset a lot of folks who spent money.

Didn't a lot of folk spend money on other 5* too? Probably a lot more than 20 bucks. 20 bucks should not be worth a never ending advantage.

Is it really a never ending advantage, though? These don't make you unbeatable at all. They're probably "worth" more than $20 if you compare to other stuff the game sells, but I don't think they're so strong that they need to be nerfed (and reducing their boost rotation is absolutely a nerf).

Besides, the same "advantage" is available to everyone -- you just have to fork over the equivalent of a few cups of coffee!

I mean I don't really have much of a dog in this fight so I have zero hills to die on but I am still not understanding why once they become a 5* character they should be treated any differently than the other 5*? Likewise the Ascended 4s don't get any advantage in terms of regular boosting. Also if they are no big deal about beating them then surely it is no big deal if they get their boost rotation lessoned? Also aren't you the guy who always wants diverse teams to fight against? Isn't this the opposite of that if players are overly reliant on boosted 1a5 because it happens so often? Should we boost Jane, Omega or any of the other meta at the same rate?

It can't be both ways. Or maybe it can? I dunno.

At the end of the day though this is how it is so hey ho.

Dunno. I don't actually see them all that often. I'm far, FAR more likely to see a wall of m'Thor (or May Parker this last month) than a wall of 1* Juggernaut or Yelena or whatever.

But I'm fighting the top .0001% of all players -- most of whom spend $0 ever and hoard/swap for a few 550 "meta" guys and nobody else.

I've been playing (and spending money!) for the better part of 11 years. Everyone tells me that the hoarders deserve to beat me because they're smarter or plan better or whatever, and that "punching up" is universally good. So I think it's pretty hilarious that their hard work and planning can be totally invalidated by some noob who spent $20.

Most players love the idea of "punching up" when they're doing the punching. When someone is punching up at them...well, that's not fair!

Daredevil217

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
Probably the only thing that needs looking at with the 1* is the regularity of how often they are boosted. There is a disproportionate advantage there that other equivalent 5* don't get normally.

I'm not sure they'd still be worth $20 if that was the case. You'd upset a lot of folks who spent money.

Didn't a lot of folk spend money on other 5* too? Probably a lot more than 20 bucks. 20 bucks should not be worth a never ending advantage.

Is it really a never ending advantage, though? These don't make you unbeatable at all. They're probably "worth" more than $20 if you compare to other stuff the game sells, but I don't think they're so strong that they need to be nerfed (and reducing their boost rotation is absolutely a nerf).

Besides, the same "advantage" is available to everyone -- you just have to fork over the equivalent of a few cups of coffee!

I mean I don't really have much of a dog in this fight so I have zero hills to die on but I am still not understanding why once they become a 5* character they should be treated any differently than the other 5*? Likewise the Ascended 4s don't get any advantage in terms of regular boosting. Also if they are no big deal about beating them then surely it is no big deal if they get their boost rotation lessoned? Also aren't you the guy who always wants diverse teams to fight against? Isn't this the opposite of that if players are overly reliant on boosted 1a5 because it happens so often? Should we boost Jane, Omega or any of the other meta at the same rate?

It can't be both ways. Or maybe it can? I dunno.

At the end of the day though this is how it is so hey ho.

There’s two sides to the coin. Yea they are trivial to beat- that’s the defensive side. But they should be able to beat anything trivially when boosted on the offensive side as well and that’s where the value lies for a lot of newer players who have these characters as their highest toons. For these newer players who aren’t using these offers solely as “reward factories” they’re buying them because of the fact that they are boosted so frequently and it allows them to compete. I personally love the fact that they are boosted so often because it creates more chum in the oceans of PVP and gives me something easy to wail on. I’d say aside from Thor/Shang nothing says easy win like a 1a5 duo (sans Juggs and that’s just because of health and a low AP nuke).

I have zero issues with these new players getting this particular fast-track to 5 land because they still won’t be able to compete AS well as someone with these 1a5s plus the metas plus the right supports.

Daredevil217

By the way, to me, the easiest solution is to create more 1 stars (Daredevil Yellow please!). It dilutes the pool making them boosted less, it makes 550ing them harder slowing down noobs progressing to the end game too fast and most importantly, it creates a money piñata they can can crack open whenever they need a revenue boost since people LOVE to buy these 20 dollar offers. More boosted 1s I say!

entrailbucket

If these folks can't compete right now because they haven't got the right supports, there's an easy fix for that -- start selling $20 Leapfrogs and Eros Arrows!

I'd 100% support this. It would change nothing for me (99% of my opponents are using them already), would make them a bunch of money, and would annoy all the freeloaders who hoarded support tokens or whatever for theirs. Win/win/win!

Besides, we need to make it so new players can punch up, right? It takes way too long to be competitive in this game? This would fix so many problems in one shot!

DAZ0273

I wouldn't have an issue with more 1's I don't think although not more Juggernaut level health wise!

bluewolf

Presumably one issue with boost frequency for 1s is they can't make the game distinguish between the same character but different tiers. And I would assume there's a fair amount of work that would need be done to modify the boost list to some how distinguish between different tiers of the same character. It's probably all or nothing without doing a thing that isn't already built in.

Further, I could see more bugs popping up that would create headaches for the devs if they decided to pursue this.

At the end of the day everyone is playing under the same conditions. The people who saved all their tokens to 550 a group can also spend $20 to buy and build on a 1-5 spidey and probably already did.

It's a live service game and no advantage is permanent, and it's better to open up high end play to more players than not (it keeps them interested and excited) even if the 1-5s open up issues around MMR and needing to use them all the time if you're a pretty low tier player before you buy them.

Option B for a lot of newer players with the dilution is focusing hard on specific natural 5 characters, building them up, then being kind of stuck with whatever levels you end up with (low level champs) because you probably need to move on to the next one to broaden your ability to compete in a game with 100+ 5s and a boost list that is on a 25+ week cycle. Maaayyybe eventually you save enough pulls to 550 some toons but that basically means running like the handful of baby champs forever to eke out whatever points you can in PVP (or use check rooms etc, if you're willing to spend lots of HP). It would be a very long tedious period of time, I would think.

Adding more 1s would slow down new players as well as vets (if that was an option they wanted to explore because altering the number of boosted weeks, or boosted per week, was too tricky) and the game absolutely shouldn't make that tier more diluted as well as pour new 2s in. What you want is a new player to feel like they can make rapid progress in the game and get hooked and a very small tier is crucial to that. (This assumes new players are a thing the game wants.)

The game is full of catch-22s and corners they've painted themselves into after 11 years as they try to simultaneously make newer players feel welcome and keep veteran players engaged, and all of them feel like roster progress is continuing and they can either keep an advantage or gain some on other players. Every solution creates new problems.

JoeHandle

@slidecage said:
top ones
juggie 550
venom 541
STORM 523
black wid 518
aunt may 499

used to fight teams around 520 to 550 now every team is 600+

used to get 4500pts in pve now lucky to get 2000 since cant find teams to beat

1Venom has been boosted all month, so your 541 Venom should be boosted to ~660

Boost list hasn't changed in weeks, probably skewing your perspective / memory.

Pair Iron May (assuming you have her ascended to 4*.....) with your 1Venom, have fun.

Also, with that many 1>5s (you know, the things you complain about availability-wise....) well over lvl 500 ... one or more of them will be boosted at all times ... so yeah, you're always going to see lvl 600+ teams ... because you have a lvl 600+ roster!

BTW, 1>5 Iron Man on offer as of 8min ago, $20 as usual, you've got 2.5 days.

entrailbucket

Where I take issue is the tendency of some folks to paint spending money as a shortcut or cheat, something that shouldn't be allowed, something that invalidates others' hard work. Some players feel like they've really worked hard, grinding for years to get where they are, and someone shouldn't be able to compete with them by dropping $20.

In any other kind of game it absolutely is that! But this game is different, and it's always been different. This game sells stuff that helps you compete, and they've never lied about that or tried to hide it. It's there the very first day you log in. Yes, they are incredibly generous these days, and players who don't spend anything can get ahead. But it hasn't always been that way, and there are no guarantees it'll be that way forever.

When 5* first showed up, I'd already been playing and competing for a long time. We had a ton of new whales pop up in the first year or so who dropped 5 figures+ into the game and instantly ran everything -- and they deserved to! If you spend that kind of money you should win everything forever. They kept the game going, and are a big reason why I'm still able to play it and have fun today. Those noobs spending $20 aren't cheating or whatever -- they are the ONLY reason you're able to play for free at all. Without them the game doesn't exist.

Daredevil217

@JoeHandle said:

@slidecage said:
top ones
juggie 550
venom 541
STORM 523
black wid 518
aunt may 499

used to fight teams around 520 to 550 now every team is 600+

used to get 4500pts in pve now lucky to get 2000 since cant find teams to beat

1Venom has been boosted all month, so your 541 Venom should be boosted to ~660

Boost list hasn't changed in weeks, probably skewing your perspective / memory.

Pair Iron May (assuming you have her ascended to 4*.....) with your 1Venom, have fun.

Also, with that many 1>5s (you know, the things you complain about availability-wise....) well over lvl 500 ... one or more of them will be boosted at all times ... so yeah, you're always going to see lvl 600+ teams ... because you have a lvl 600+ roster!

BTW, 1>5 Iron Man on offer as of 8min ago, $20 as usual, you've got 2.5 days.

I don’t think having boosted toons matters in terms of who you see, but someone can fact check me on that. If I’m in 550 land (I have 10 of them currently, so I’d say I am for MMR purposes) and none of them are boosted, I don’t think the game hides me from rosters who also have 10 550s and all of them are boosted. So I see a mix of everything from dual 550 to dual max-boosted and everything in between.

I was so happy to see that Iron Man offer and bought instantly. He was one of two I didn’t buy initially. Only awaiting Hawkeye now. Once I get him I’ll probably mass open standards until Juggs and Spidey are 550’d then hoard standards just in case they do release another 1*.

JoeHandle

@Daredevil217 said:

@JoeHandle said:

@slidecage said:
top ones
juggie 550
venom 541
STORM 523
black wid 518
aunt may 499

used to fight teams around 520 to 550 now every team is 600+

used to get 4500pts in pve now lucky to get 2000 since cant find teams to beat

1Venom has been boosted all month, so your 541 Venom should be boosted to ~660

Boost list hasn't changed in weeks, probably skewing your perspective / memory.

Pair Iron May (assuming you have her ascended to 4*.....) with your 1Venom, have fun.

Also, with that many 1>5s (you know, the things you complain about availability-wise....) well over lvl 500 ... one or more of them will be boosted at all times ... so yeah, you're always going to see lvl 600+ teams ... because you have a lvl 600+ roster!

BTW, 1>5 Iron Man on offer as of 8min ago, $20 as usual, you've got 2.5 days.

I don’t think having boosted toons matters in terms of who you see....

It doesn't, not IME anyway, becasue it effectively doesn't matter. Slide has a 550 and several near 550, so he sees other rosters that have 550s. Rosters with higher level 5s see each other. When those rosters' lvl 500+ chars are boosted, they are lvl 600+. When Slide's high 1>5s are boosted, they are lvl 600+. When theirs are boosted and yours aren't ... that gets rough.

However [un]clear I was[n't], the point I was trying to make was that he is seeing his peers. In his OP he seemed to be asserting he was seeing stronger rosters than he "should have". It is rough that only one of his 5s are among those boosted for a SOLID MONTH!