Lady Octopus (Carolyn Trainer) 4*

Pylgrim

@WhiteBomber said:
I can't tell if KGB is being sarcastic or not.

• Green has to be thrown twice before you can even throw black (looks like her only way to create tiles) plus the tick is, yeah.
• Blue isn't fortified, so I don't think you even need MThor to get a lovely stun off on the opposing team (or accidentally get stunned yourself).
• And the pink.. has anyone ever seen a 3turn repeater even go off once? I don't know that I have.

I promise I'm not trying to be negative and KGB I think is probably great! On 2nd readthrough that's just my initial thoughts. I like the concept of all 3 abilities, but they all seem pretty rough. Hopefully I'm wrong though and she ascends like a boss.

Fully agree, at least talking about the character in a vaccum. The first power costs 16 AP in two different colours to deal 6k team damage, plus some tiny damage/bonuses on the way there. The second ability also costs 16 because not getting the tile fortified basically reads as "spend AP to stun the allies for 2 turns and you don't even get a bonus from it like PunMax".

By the time I started reading the third ability I was surprised and disappointed to find out it was not an AP producing passive taking into account how colour and AP intensive her other abilities are. Anyway, 8 AP for an ability that is only decent depending on the opponent using special tiles ain't too hot. Sure, it gets huge against Polaris, but Polaris has already killed her before she got the 8 AP for this ability, and probably the rest of the team as well.

The worst thing, though, is that we're getting Carolyn instead of Olivia from Spider-verse.

dianetics

I'm not impressed. She looks like a niche use character at best?
In the 4* tier I am sure she will be fine against certain enemies like Carnage.
As a 5 she could soft counter Wong as long as you can cast the power AND stay in the fight. It is not quite as effective I am not quite sure where to use this kit in the current game I am playing.
In PvE it may have some mild use against mindless ones...but I think I'd rather take Morbius.

If I was a betting man I would say she is one that will get lost in the shuffle of the 4 star tier.

BriMan2222

@bluewolf said:

@maqbaq said:
I do realize that this is absolutely insignificant to the game itself, but as a Marvel reader I must react

This is NOT Miles Morales: Spider-Man #27 (2018) Variant cover:

It's from Amazing Spider-Man v1 #406 (1995)

The variant cover from MM#27 looks like this:

It's Lady Ock allright (and Miles), but she's wearing her new costume.

So maybe/probably the new costume will be coming as a purchase bundle….

Sounds likely. Seems like every new character has a costume deal these days.

bluewolf

So far as I can recall, every 2, 4, and 5 release since Jubillee (the 5) has had a costume offer a few days after release.

If they don’t have a different look they can always do Chibi.

Pantera236

@bluewolf said:
So far as I can recall, every 2, 4, and 5 release since Jubillee (the 5) has had a costume offer a few days after release.

If they don’t have a different look they can always do Chibi.

Or Mortal Kombat color swap lol.

BriMan2222

@bluewolf said:
So far as I can recall, every 2, 4, and 5 release since Jubillee (the 5) has had a costume offer a few days after release.

If they don’t have a different look they can always do Chibi.

They don't even have to do that much work. Spider girls costume was just the red part is blue now.

WhiteBomber

@KGB said:

@WhiteBomber said:
I can't tell if KGB is being sarcastic or not.

• Green has to be thrown twice before you can even throw black (looks like her only way to create tiles) plus the tick is, yeah.
• Blue isn't fortified, so I don't think you even need MThor to get a lovely stun off on the opposing team (or accidentally get stunned yourself).
• And the pink.. has anyone ever seen a 3turn repeater even go off once? I don't know that I have.

I promise I'm not trying to be negative and KGB I think is probably great! On 2nd readthrough that's just my initial thoughts. I like the concept of all 3 abilities, but they all seem pretty rough. Hopefully I'm wrong though and she ascends like a boss.

My question is now that supports are all over PvP does MThor matter as much. It's not hard to get a support that fortifies a CD.

Sure, you can absolutely point to a lot of things that can be countered. But at the same time in PvE or PvE she does a lot of very good things that do a lot for a team especially with the right team mates.

KGB

No, MThor doesn't matter as much, however I'm sure if she was there this lady becomes even more moot. My opinion from the get go is that MThor does NOT need to be there for this character to not accomplish anything.

More context on my perspective:

Green: You need 8 of it for it to actually do anything at all. Assuming you've made it that far, those tentacle tiles can also be matched away, then you need another 8 black for the payout. Even then, this would only be relevant damage on a 5star ascension.

Blue: Unless you throw this twice, it's super high risk. I wish this game didn't intentionally put these tiles in a way the enemy matches them all the time, but it is what it is. If there is a numbered tile on the board and it's not fortified, it's not long for this world. THEN, assuming you did throw it and it stays on the board for 3 turns, 55% damage??? So you have to be doing other things also while this is on the board to see value, but Aunt may is like 3x as good without the risk or need for using AP in probably the strongest color in the game.

Pink: 8ap on a an ability that will never fire, or, lets say you're lucky enough it fires once it creates one negligible tile of each type (also unfortified) and in a meta that is not geared towards SAPs. If you wanted to counter or buff saps there are at least every other characters who do it better?

Again, all perspective and maybe this is only my experience, but especially with supports enabled, a match generally lasts no more than 6-8 turns before you are established enough to start ending the fight (and I feel that's being generous, we know it can be much faster). So to gather enough AP with this character to then start doing her super slow minimal things, doesn't seem like she would ever get picked over any others. Unless of course you are just trying to have some slow fun (which I do probably more than most), unfortunately fun doesn't equate to tier.

I also totally hope I'm wrong, as a 4star she is definitely useless, but that's 90% of 4stars, it is still possible she ascends well. I respect others opinions though, just one mans thoughts on a character I haven't played yet.

JoeHandle

For clarity's sake, the feeder chart should show that 4* Doc Ock No Way Home still feeds 5* Doctor Octopus Classic.

5* Electro now has 2 primary feeders (see: Scorpion), good for her! .... tho someday I suspect Scorpion will feed someone else.

entrailbucket

As always, reserving judgement on this one till I get the chance to play with her.

@WhiteBomber I don't think any of what you're saying is necessarily wrong. We can (and probably should) evaluate characters in the context of the metagame, and this current metagame is very, very strong and very, very fast. To break into that tier, a character needs to be pretty crazily powerful.

Then there's another tier of analysis that's more like "can I cobble together some pile of jank with this guy that can do something fun and win a few fights?" I mostly live in this mode now, because the answer to the first question tends to not be very interesting.

Tpsimoes

@rainkingucd said:

@Tpsimoes said:

@S0kun said:

@ThisisClemFandango said:
Her first power goes green and then black?

Yup. Green > Black is intended.

@Hellblazer666 said:
I thought we were done with Spider-verse characters for the rest of the year? Lady Ock is a spider-verse villian? Again why so many spider-man characters and villains.

Kaine was the last Spider-Man character, but I believe Lady Ock is the last Spider-verse new character outside of a few character rebalances later this year.

For those who will notice re: No Feeder info... We'll have feeder updates, but we've decided to wait until launch day to release feeder info due to potential last minute changes that have happened in the past.

@S0kun are you sure? In-game is showing green > green.

If you click on the L2 power level for ...and more dangerous! it changes to black.

Thanks,
I always do that... but if you click first
Armed any Level (5 has example) and then arrow... the color in second power (and more dangerous) stays green
So, that's an UI BUG!

KGB

@WhiteBomber said:

@KGB said:

@WhiteBomber said:
I can't tell if KGB is being sarcastic or not.

• Green has to be thrown twice before you can even throw black (looks like her only way to create tiles) plus the tick is, yeah.
• Blue isn't fortified, so I don't think you even need MThor to get a lovely stun off on the opposing team (or accidentally get stunned yourself).
• And the pink.. has anyone ever seen a 3turn repeater even go off once? I don't know that I have.

I promise I'm not trying to be negative and KGB I think is probably great! On 2nd readthrough that's just my initial thoughts. I like the concept of all 3 abilities, but they all seem pretty rough. Hopefully I'm wrong though and she ascends like a boss.

My question is now that supports are all over PvP does MThor matter as much. It's not hard to get a support that fortifies a CD.

Sure, you can absolutely point to a lot of things that can be countered. But at the same time in PvE or PvE she does a lot of very good things that do a lot for a team especially with the right team mates.

KGB

No, MThor doesn't matter as much, however I'm sure if she was there this lady becomes even more moot. My opinion from the get go is that MThor does NOT need to be there for this character to not accomplish anything.

More context on my perspective:

Green: You need 8 of it for it to actually do anything at all. Assuming you've made it that far, those tentacle tiles can also be matched away, then you need another 8 black for the payout. Even then, this would only be relevant damage on a 5star ascension.

Blue: Unless you throw this twice, it's super high risk. I wish this game didn't intentionally put these tiles in a way the enemy matches them all the time, but it is what it is. If there is a numbered tile on the board and it's not fortified, it's not long for this world. THEN, assuming you did throw it and it stays on the board for 3 turns, 55% damage??? So you have to be doing other things also while this is on the board to see value, but Aunt may is like 3x as good without the risk or need for using AP in probably the strongest color in the game.

Green: Don't you only need 4 Green? The initial cast is 4 Green to create 2 tentacle tiles. At that point her passive starts doing the damage ticks. You only need to cast again if you want to get to the 2nd part of her power.

Blue: It stays 5 turns at 5 covers, not 3. It increases damage and provides damage reduction of 55%. Are you reading it as only increasing power damage? It doesn't say so I am hoping it increases all damage (power + match) and the same on the defensive side (55% reduction of match and power damage). I agree that the lack of fortification is a huge liability. But now that supports are in PvP you will surely equip one that auto fortifies count downs.

KGB

S0kun

Lady Octopus (Carolyn Trainer) 4* should now be recruitable via shards and it looks like issues experienced by players was related to data pushes not being synced. If you're still experiencing this issue, please contact CS.
Also side note: If these types of issues happen the evening before a character release, please wait until the morning of launch (Pacific Time) to try again cause it's likely data push related.

WhiteBomber

@KGB said:

@WhiteBomber said:

@KGB said:

@WhiteBomber said:
I can't tell if KGB is being sarcastic or not.

• Green has to be thrown twice before you can even throw black (looks like her only way to create tiles) plus the tick is, yeah.
• Blue isn't fortified, so I don't think you even need MThor to get a lovely stun off on the opposing team (or accidentally get stunned yourself).
• And the pink.. has anyone ever seen a 3turn repeater even go off once? I don't know that I have.

I promise I'm not trying to be negative and KGB I think is probably great! On 2nd readthrough that's just my initial thoughts. I like the concept of all 3 abilities, but they all seem pretty rough. Hopefully I'm wrong though and she ascends like a boss.

My question is now that supports are all over PvP does MThor matter as much. It's not hard to get a support that fortifies a CD.

Sure, you can absolutely point to a lot of things that can be countered. But at the same time in PvE or PvE she does a lot of very good things that do a lot for a team especially with the right team mates.

KGB

No, MThor doesn't matter as much, however I'm sure if she was there this lady becomes even more moot. My opinion from the get go is that MThor does NOT need to be there for this character to not accomplish anything.

More context on my perspective:

Green: You need 8 of it for it to actually do anything at all. Assuming you've made it that far, those tentacle tiles can also be matched away, then you need another 8 black for the payout. Even then, this would only be relevant damage on a 5star ascension.

Blue: Unless you throw this twice, it's super high risk. I wish this game didn't intentionally put these tiles in a way the enemy matches them all the time, but it is what it is. If there is a numbered tile on the board and it's not fortified, it's not long for this world. THEN, assuming you did throw it and it stays on the board for 3 turns, 55% damage??? So you have to be doing other things also while this is on the board to see value, but Aunt may is like 3x as good without the risk or need for using AP in probably the strongest color in the game.

Green: Don't you only need 4 Green? The initial cast is 4 Green to create 2 tentacle tiles. At that point her passive starts doing the damage ticks. You only need to cast again if you want to get to the 2nd part of her power.

Blue: It stays 5 turns at 5 covers, not 3. It increases damage and provides damage reduction of 55%. Are you reading it as only increasing power damage? It doesn't say so I am hoping it increases all damage (power + match) and the same on the defensive side (55% reduction of match and power damage). I agree that the lack of fortification is a huge liability. But now that supports are in PvP you will surely equip one that auto fortifies count downs.

KGB

You definitely can throw that green only once if you want that grand total of 811 tick damage (and that's max champ 4star), even with damage boosters this is a long shot from being good. Hell, if anything the defensive portion of it is better "370: Take 1045 less damage." That part at least has potential to hopefully scale well in to 5star (I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible).

I am well aware of the defensive portion of the blue, I just didn't think it was even worth mentioning given the overall value and risk of it. If I'm not worried about the defense of Colossus, I'm sure not going to care about the 55% that stuns most of my team for 2 turns and again, costs 6 of one of the most valuable colors. That defense and offense (in my opinion) would have to be at least 90% to be a bit more considerable. At least fortify it for free... As for it being 5 turns instead of 3, just more likely it's going to get matched away or destroyed. Luckily that won't matter, because the match will have already been over multiple turns earlier.

In regards to "cobbling together jank or niche teams", that is what I live for. Anyone who has read my posts should see a large portion of them are about making less good characters viable in creative ways. I have a 1Note dedicated to these niche teams and I regularly place lower in tournaments trying to use them. When I am giving an opinion on a character though, it should only be in context to the current state of the game and character. I DO believe this character could ascend well and I do believe there could be a weird team out there for her, however, I don't think that team will be considered a very good team, and I do believe other characters will do it better AND likely in a more fun way.

I think Dark and Cat are perfect examples of this, they aren't strong on paper or in most scenarios, but with the right friends in the right scenarios they sure as hell shine. LadyPus on the other hand, I FEEL is just going struggle significantly more to even fit in to that category, this is also why I think her strongest ability is "affiliation = technologist". Put her with Locke and 4star Ock and you might be able to have some fun (but mostly because 4 Ock is super fun and underrated).

entrailbucket

Eh. Her passive can give you a whole ton of extra random hits that get boosted by either strike tiles or power boosters. Yes, the base damage is low, and yes, if you aren't running another Ock you'll need to cast her power, but if you're stacking an Okoye or Apocalypse or Wong boost on every one it'll be good. That's at least one neat thing to do.

WhiteBomber

I feel like we're just grasping at any old reason for her to be used at this point. So for the sake of continued debate:

(Disclaimer: I am not saying she needs to better than or even as good as any of these characters, this is strictly more thought context in response to the debate).

Here are just the first characters from my roster I scroll through that also do the buffable "tick" damage.

• Phyla
• Chasm
• DeathLocke
• Omega
• Magic
• Switch
• Ihulk
• Medusa
• Polaris
• Negasonic
• Gorr

Arguably, every one one of these characters does it better or at minimum, more free. Most of them are also part of some pretty fun teams.

It's hard to say for sure, but I have a feeling her green might even be her best ability, so that doesn't bode well. Some other minor data that drives my thinking is that Okoye is mostly dead (at least I struggle to make her sense over so many others and I NEVER have to play against her) and Apoc would also take too long to get that buff going (too many things need to fall in to place for that value to start, the match is already over).

So, if the argument is you could probably have some fun doing things worse than all of these characters (and more), and likely lose if it's PVP, I can accept that. I personally would still tier her quite low though.

I am going to look like a damn fool if she somehow ends up being amazing, but that would be great for the design team.

Jinx

I still have no access to this character

Drlex

@S0kun said:

Lady Octopus (Carolyn Trainer) 4* should now be recruitable via shards and it looks like issues experienced by players was related to data pushes not being synced. If you're still experiencing this issue, please contact CS.
Also side note: If these types of issues happen the evening before a character release, please wait until the morning of launch (Pacific Time) to try again cause it's likely data push related.

Mine is not, and I have reached out to CS. Just letting you know.

Drlex

Nevermind it is working now.

JoeHandle

Has anyone played the character yet? So much theorycrafting!

But hey, that's a good chunk of the remaining life on the forum so I'll join in.

She looks ... meh. OK.

First two powers are interesting, useful but not amazing. OK / useful powers for when you have to use this character, but not anything to pick this character over all other options for. The kind of things that are more meaningful in longer matches ... what the cutting edge crowd is trying to avoid. The buffing on the blue is nice but ... other characters do it better and do it passively and don't risk stunning their friends or require protecting a CD.

The third power initially sounds AMAZING ... until thought through. It doesn't negate or reverse an enemy advantages, it calls and raises. It will answer a blazing offense with a blazing-er offense, a stiff defense with a stiffer defense. Could lead to quick Pyrrhic victories or very looooong matches. The first effect on this power is only a bit stronger than the hole you are in is deep.

But the blanket tile buffing could be useful with existing tile meta teams. Not become anyone's go-to, unless they don't have the current meta options, but a useful ability to complement certain pick-2 teams whenever this character is required.

Interesting to use when required and maybe even fun. And a fun new option for all your "Sinister Three teams" ... never imagined this game would have so many Doc Octopi ....

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:

@revskip said:
I mean go back and look at the 1st page of that Kaine thread.

"Wasted ISO and milestone shards due to this debacle. This is really unacceptable and seems intentional, especially as it is the 2nd time they have misled on retros in a short period of time (Dr Doom being the other one recently). Very anti-user and disrespectful to your player base."

"I was bamboozled. My alliance reported retro rewards had been handed out and saw I got nothing despite my India being 320. Then i come here to find out we was lied to."

Reddit was not much better with the thread discussing it getting locked due to people getting too spicy.

Line was even worse in some rooms. While I can't see what CS was getting I don't think it's a stretch to think that was even worse since folks tend to act their worst with customer service folk.

It really is a lose/lose for the devs. If they give out info ahead of time and anything changes people pitch a fit. If they don't give out info people are upset about the lack of communication. I'm not sure what the answer is but I think in this case not announcing ahead of time is the right move. I am one of the people who enjoys knowing ahead of time so I can double dip when things like this are announced but I get why they can't without getting dragged.

So you don't think people had the right to be upset by getting the wrong information?
I wasn't, but I understand people spending resources and then being unhappy with the result when the information was not correct.
People should be able to vent their frustration openly and clearly to the devs so the developers learn from their mistakes.
Not everyone is going to be nice about it. But there's no reason to hold water for the devs here, I am sure they are all adults.

We know their release schedule is more or less set in stone months ahead of time, so you should expect more from them not less.

They did listen to the feedback though. Players said they were upset because the information they were given was wrong. The devs listened, and decided to stop giving out information, so it wouldn't be wrong ever again.