Handling of Jubilee Ascension Retro Rewards

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  • Carnage1484
    Carnage1484 Posts: 12 Just Dropped In
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    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 5 May 2024, 14:46
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    This really is a matter of using an existing system vs implementing a brand new system. The latter will take weeks, maybe even months, and will come at the expense of other product enhancements that they're already working on (possibly new everything depending on how big and/or compartmented their coding team is, but at the very least at the expense of new UI enhancements, back end code, that sort of thing.) They went with adapting the current system, which works imperfectly, but it presents an alternative to flooding CS with tickets.

    The "break even" point is 455 (20 covers on the dupe or level 290) -- that's where you get everything you would have if you hadn't ascended them first. I'm curious to see if CS would award rewards for people at less than that "break even" point. I'd be the best way to handle it -- it still involves CS but at a fraction of the rate it would have been...

    This begs the question - has anyone who sent in a CS ticket gotten an answer yet?

  • Godzillafan67
    Godzillafan67 Posts: 551 Critical Contributor
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    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    Why? The only people I can see skipping the double maxing are those with a max and working on the dupe when the retro rewards are announced to happen soon. The contingent that exist in this scenario are likely a small part of the player base, and simplifying a process while making a vocal minority happy sounds like a win to me.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,298 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    Why wouldn't they want that?

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,080 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Godzillafan67 said:

    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    Why? The only people I can see skipping the double maxing are those with a max and working on the dupe when the retro rewards are announced to happen soon. The contingent that exist in this scenario are likely a small part of the player base, and simplifying a process while making a vocal minority happy sounds like a win to me.

    I doubt many players are going the double max route on 4 stars. It will take years to get a dup to 370 (yes you can bonus 1 there faster but overall you can't do that for 150+ characters). Sure the rewards are good in the last 20 or so levels but is it worth waiting 2-3 more years to ascend? Especially if you are already in 5 star land those non ascended 4s are just wasting roster space since they are unusable (as EB has pointed out many times).

    KGB

  • St_Bernadus
    St_Bernadus Posts: 624 Critical Contributor
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    @GrimSkald said:

    This begs the question - has anyone who sent in a CS ticket gotten an answer yet?

    I put in mine on Thursday, no answer so far. Expecting tomorrow.

  • St_Bernadus
    St_Bernadus Posts: 624 Critical Contributor
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    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:

    @S0kun said:
    You're gonna need to be more specific.

    Mod note: Merged from another thread.

    I'm curious why a decision was made to over-reward max-max ascenders and late-ascenders, and to actively penalize early ascenders by giving no retro rewards for a base level 450 ascended 5*?

    Eh, I very much doubt that anybody actually made that decision. I think they didn't expect to have to worry about this at all, so the entire retro thing just got slapped together, and nobody thought about consequences or incentives.

    Anyway the number of players caught in the middle here (I have a champion Jubilee 5* -- my 4* was lvl480) is probably pretty low, and I imagine they'll do something for you via CS.

    I wonder if they will and exactly what they'd reward.

    6 covers (2500 shards + 1 cover) seems a no brainer if CS is going to do anything (which isn't at all clear since they implemented the system they have to avoid CS doing things).

    But at least one of the posters here said he ascended a 370+280 and expects a 7th cover from the 280. But they have no way of knowing whether he ascended a 370+270 and then added 10 more covers or did the 370+280. It would seem unlikely that person would get the 7th cover.

    KGB

    I take the point but they gave retro rewards to everyone with a 455 and above Jubilee as if they just ascended them, so why shouldn't those below get that?

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 235 Tile Toppler
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    They should go back to the original plan and treat each ascended character as a new character and not award retro rewards. I miss the simpler times.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @St_Bernadus said:

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:

    @S0kun said:
    You're gonna need to be more specific.

    Mod note: Merged from another thread.

    I'm curious why a decision was made to over-reward max-max ascenders and late-ascenders, and to actively penalize early ascenders by giving no retro rewards for a base level 450 ascended 5*?

    Eh, I very much doubt that anybody actually made that decision. I think they didn't expect to have to worry about this at all, so the entire retro thing just got slapped together, and nobody thought about consequences or incentives.

    Anyway the number of players caught in the middle here (I have a champion Jubilee 5* -- my 4* was lvl480) is probably pretty low, and I imagine they'll do something for you via CS.

    I wonder if they will and exactly what they'd reward.

    6 covers (2500 shards + 1 cover) seems a no brainer if CS is going to do anything (which isn't at all clear since they implemented the system they have to avoid CS doing things).

    But at least one of the posters here said he ascended a 370+280 and expects a 7th cover from the 280. But they have no way of knowing whether he ascended a 370+270 and then added 10 more covers or did the 370+280. It would seem unlikely that person would get the 7th cover.

    KGB

    I take the point but they gave retro rewards to everyone with a 455 and above Jubilee as if they just ascended them, so why shouldn't those below get that?

    They can't through the current system, it's literally impossible, so hopefully they can close up that gap through CS tickets. Is that what you meant?

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,761 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 5 May 2024, 19:44
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    That they can’t is their problem, not ours. They implemented the system and stated it wasn’t to be a penalty to use that system. To be honest the only fair way as someone stated is to award as though they are dual 370 and have people use the system instead of sitting on characters for years.

    I’m equally as happy though if they upgrade shards through tickets.

  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,274 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Btw, I'm opening tokens and what not, its been 4 days, my ascended Jubilee is still at 451... this is ridiculous, you aint gaining even 4 levels on an ascended 4* unless you have a hoard (at 15 shards per LT, you need to open 26 LT's to get 1 cover... good luck doing this in a week).

    Maybe if the special retro rewards stayed 2 or 3 weeks maybe, 1 week is dumb.

  • Godzillafan67
    Godzillafan67 Posts: 551 Critical Contributor
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    @KGB said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:

    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    Why? The only people I can see skipping the double maxing are those with a max and working on the dupe when the retro rewards are announced to happen soon. The contingent that exist in this scenario are likely a small part of the player base, and simplifying a process while making a vocal minority happy sounds like a win to me.

    I doubt many players are going the double max route on 4 stars. It will take years to get a dup to 370 (yes you can bonus 1 there faster but overall you can't do that for 150+ characters). Sure the rewards are good in the last 20 or so levels but is it worth waiting 2-3 more years to ascend? Especially if you are already in 5 star land those non ascended 4s are just wasting roster space since they are unusable (as EB has pointed out many times).

    KGB

    I was specifically responding to Carnage1484 where the argument seemed exclusive to a particular subset of players. I agree that many players will ascend once the early best rewards are earned (or immediately) so that they can start playing with 5-star magic; I'm merely proposing a solution that is simple and fully encapsulates all ascension scenarios. I believe that EB has also pointed out that the digital rewards don't cost the developers anything outside of opportunity cost and potential post sales, which awarding extra covers to this group would not likely be an issue.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,298 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Yeah, this problem appears to be specific to a subset of folks who got caught in the middle -- if you ascended 4* Jubilee at launch like I did, she's probably high enough in level that you got all the retro stuff. If you didn't ascend her at all, well, you got the old regular retro whatever.

    The gap would be players who ascended her quite recently or haven't levelled her up very much, and I bet that's a pretty small group. I do think they'll do something for them via CS because of that.

    I don't think any of these consequences are intended, and really, their ad hoc solution has managed to leave out a pretty small group, so it was actually pretty successful.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,349 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    I might be a minority but I double max. I have no interest in getting my 4*s to Ascend until I have two at 370. Just my play style but it works for me.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @LavaManLee said:

    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    I might be a minority but I double max. I have no interest in getting my 4*s to Ascend until I have two at 370. Just my play style but it works for me.

    Same. Unless I feel that I absolutely need a particular 4 star as a 5 star (so far hasn't happened,) I'm just going to wait until I get them both at 370. The rewards are exponentially better, particularly since you gain all the rewards for the second 4 star and the retro levels for the 5 star. Even without this, 4* covers are actually more efficient on 4s rather than 4|5s (the 4:1 ratio is killer,) so you can make an argument that unless you're going to use the 4|5 just start a new 4.

    I doubt we're in the minority.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @GrimSkald said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    I might be a minority but I double max. I have no interest in getting my 4*s to Ascend until I have two at 370. Just my play style but it works for me.

    Same. Unless I feel that I absolutely need a particular 4 star as a 5 star (so far hasn't happened,) I'm just going to wait until I get them both at 370. The rewards are exponentially better, particularly since you gain all the rewards for the second 4 star and the retro levels for the 5 star. Even without this, 4* covers are actually more efficient on 4s rather than 4|5s (the 4:1 ratio is killer,) so you can make an argument that unless you're going to use the 4|5 just start a new 4.

    I doubt we're in the minority.

    Depends what you class as a "minority", lol! Anybody who has the capability to max two 4's is definitely not an average player!

  • St_Bernadus
    St_Bernadus Posts: 624 Critical Contributor
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    @GrimSkald said:

    @St_Bernadus said:

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:

    @S0kun said:
    You're gonna need to be more specific.

    Mod note: Merged from another thread.

    I'm curious why a decision was made to over-reward max-max ascenders and late-ascenders, and to actively penalize early ascenders by giving no retro rewards for a base level 450 ascended 5*?

    Eh, I very much doubt that anybody actually made that decision. I think they didn't expect to have to worry about this at all, so the entire retro thing just got slapped together, and nobody thought about consequences or incentives.

    Anyway the number of players caught in the middle here (I have a champion Jubilee 5* -- my 4* was lvl480) is probably pretty low, and I imagine they'll do something for you via CS.

    I wonder if they will and exactly what they'd reward.

    6 covers (2500 shards + 1 cover) seems a no brainer if CS is going to do anything (which isn't at all clear since they implemented the system they have to avoid CS doing things).

    But at least one of the posters here said he ascended a 370+280 and expects a 7th cover from the 280. But they have no way of knowing whether he ascended a 370+270 and then added 10 more covers or did the 370+280. It would seem unlikely that person would get the 7th cover.

    KGB

    I take the point but they gave retro rewards to everyone with a 455 and above Jubilee as if they just ascended them, so why shouldn't those below get that?

    They can't through the current system, it's literally impossible, so hopefully they can close up that gap through CS tickets. Is that what you meant?

    I do hope they can close the gap through CS, yes.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,298 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @LavaManLee said:

    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    I might be a minority but I double max. I have no interest in getting my 4*s to Ascend until I have two at 370. Just my play style but it works for me.

    How many 4* have you ascended so far?

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    I might be a minority but I double max. I have no interest in getting my 4*s to Ascend until I have two at 370. Just my play style but it works for me.

    How many 4* have you ascended so far?

    I just checked, looks like I've ascended 45 4*s. Virtually all of them were max/max -- when they were giving quadruple rewards by mistake early on I ascended a few who were over 300 (I count 8,) but other than that it's just been max/max

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,349 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Carnage1484 said:

    @Godzillafan67 said:
    A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

    Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

    I might be a minority but I double max. I have no interest in getting my 4*s to Ascend until I have two at 370. Just my play style but it works for me.

    How many 4* have you ascended so far?

    1. And the funny thing is that I play none of them in PVE or PVP. They just sit there.