Handling of Jubilee Ascension Retro Rewards

ThaRoadWarrior

I gather this happened to Moondragon as well, but mine wasn't ascended so I didn't see it. When Jubilee's retro rewards went live, there appears to be a new mechanism for it that punishes early ascenders specifically for some reason.

It seems that retro rewards are replacing the first few champion levels on the ascended 5* now for about a week (people tell me), however, the reward tree is as follows:
Level 451: 1500 secondary character shards
Level 452: 1800 primary character shards
level 453: 700 primary shards
level 454: top color cover of primary character
level 455: top color cover of primary character
level 456: 165 secondary shards
level 457: 250 primary
level 458: 250 primary
level 459: 360 secondary
460: LT
461: 25 CP
462: 250 primary
463: 250 primary
464: 240 secondary
465: lt
466: 135 secondary
467: 600 primary
468: lt
469: 1000hp
470: 400 primary
471: 300 secondary
472: 250 primary
473: 250 primary

then from there it seems standard. Here are some ascension scenarios:
370 + 270, not yet ascended: 6 covers + whatever would have happened on secondary
370 + 270, already ascended to 450: no rewards
370 + 360, not yet ascended: 12 covers
370 + 360, previously ascended: 12 covers
370 + 360, ascended after this goes live: 24 covers

The thing about Jubilee is that she was already a feeder, so she seemed relatively safe to ascend (i'm ascending everyone when they are eligible regardless, my Jubilee ended up at 452 in this case). I'm really not at all sure why this empty spot exists at a 450 ascended character. @sokun can we get some clarity on the driver for this?

Scofie

@ThaRoadWarrior

I'm really not at all sure why this empty spot exists at a 450 ascended character. @sokun can we get some clarity on the driver for this?

I just posted in the other thread - they're tied to Champ rewards and there is no reward at 450 because that's the entry level for 4Ascended5 and Champed 5* characters.

ThaRoadWarrior

Yes, it is clear that is what is happening, but what I would like to know is WHY. This sends a very explicit message that we should not be early ascending. The rewards are tied to the 4* version, and it very obviously took a max-champ 4* version to arrive at the 5* ascended.

KGB

I think the answer is going to be something along the lines of:

It's the only way we could hand out retro rewards for ascended characters (beyond the contact CS thing they did one time that surely used up a lot of time/effort). Remember they said that ascending creates a whole new character. So they have no history of what you had before you ascended so no clear way to give out exactly the right rewards to everyone. This was their compromise, hacking in some rewards for a week on the early champ levels that can be exploited by players who delay ascension.

I guess everyone didn't quite understand because Moondragon didn't affect anyone. But it's clear that early ascension could cost you some retro covers.

KGB

Punter1

As a side note... if you are lucky enough to ascend during the adjustment period you get to double dip. Both getting retro awards on the original unascended characters, and then the bonus added shards when you ascend if you do so with anything over the max+base.

Works at 3* and 4* level ascensions.

BriMan2222

@Tony_Foot said:
adding to the more relevant thread

But you shouldn't lose anything at all. 450 ascended should be 3000 shards. Why is that hard? The last communication said we could go ahead and ascend and not lose out. Well I would have lost out if I'd used their new feature. I don't expect to get anything more or double dip but I do expect to get what I should be getting.

3000 shards is 6 covers worth. My ascended Jubilee is a few levels over 450 and I got enough covers and shards for 7 covers. So it seems like I got what I should have. Seems like this is glitched, as people are reporting varying amounts of shards given with same ascended levels. Maybe the people that didn't get what they should have should see if CS can help them out.

Hammer3001

Is the new rewards system for ascended 4-Star Jubilee going to be the same from now on?

MOD note: Merged from another thread.

rainkingucd

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
I gather this happened to Moondragon as well, but mine wasn't ascended so I didn't see it.

It happened for Doom Iron Man too FYI. Same mechanism in place.

ThaRoadWarrior

I've submitted a CS ticket.

@BriMan2222 if you are at 455, you'd have gotten 2500 shards plus a pair of red covers, so that's your 7 covers. If you were at 451, you'd have gotten 3 covers worth of shards for Phoenix and nothing for Jubilee, or if at 452 like me, you'd have gotten 3 covers for phoenix and 3 covers for jubilee with a little change. If you had your un-ascended 370 and 290 jubilee used to create that 455, you'd have gotten 7 covers between them, plus 7 more after ascending (plus whatever you get for a secondary feeder change from un-ascended), resulting in a 14 cover day 1 jubilee phoenix force.

S0kun

You're gonna need to be more specific.

Mod note: Merged from another thread.

ThaRoadWarrior

@S0kun said:
You're gonna need to be more specific.

Mod note: Merged from another thread.

I'm curious why a decision was made to over-reward max-max ascenders and late-ascenders, and to actively penalize early ascenders by giving no retro rewards for a base level 450 ascended 5*?

sinnerjfl

@BriMan2222 said:

@Tony_Foot said:
adding to the more relevant thread

But you shouldn't lose anything at all. 450 ascended should be 3000 shards. Why is that hard? The last communication said we could go ahead and ascend and not lose out. Well I would have lost out if I'd used their new feature. I don't expect to get anything more or double dip but I do expect to get what I should be getting.

3000 shards is 6 covers worth. My ascended Jubilee is a few levels over 450 and I got enough covers and shards for 7 covers. So it seems like I got what I should have. Seems like this is glitched, as people are reporting varying amounts of shards given with same ascended levels. Maybe the people that didn't get what they should have should see if CS can help them out.

Lucky you, you had Jubilee ascended at the correct treshold but this info was NOT communicated properly. A lot of people just thought, I can ascend and get my 6 covers as normal, this is not what is happening.

St_Bernadus

I already posted in the Jubilee thread but I am in the same spot as TRW, getting 1800 shards for Jubilee instead of the 2500 and 2 covers I was expecting. Since they said it was all fine now, ascend away, this was a big shock.

I also submitted a CS ticket. I encourage any others with a Jubilee ascended below level 455 to do the same.

S0kun

This is likely how rewards will be given out in the foreseeable future. We know it's not completely fair to everyone, but that's just how the tech implementation is and it's better than flooding our CS team with thousands of tickets to manually cross check excel tables to then manually send out rewards. The alternative is to not do retro rewards at all, which I'd imagine most wouldn't want so we're stuck between a rock and a hard place until there's a better solution.

sinnerjfl

@S0kun said:
This is likely how rewards will be given out in the foreseeable future. We know it's not completely fair to everyone,

You forgot that little nugget when you announced it though, having known this I would have never ascended Jubilee, this had to be made a lot clearer before a lot of us thought we would be safe to ascend.

Timemachinego

@S0kun said:
This is likely how rewards will be given out in the foreseeable future. We know it's not completely fair to everyone, but that's just how the tech implementation is and it's better than flooding our CS team with thousands of tickets to manually cross check excel tables to then manually send out rewards. The alternative is to not do retro rewards at all, which I'd imagine most wouldn't want so we're stuck between a rock and a hard place until there's a better solution.

Very cool, now we're at the "threatening to be worse" stage of things. I appreciate the "explanation" but that's a bad look overall.

entrailbucket

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@S0kun said:
You're gonna need to be more specific.

Mod note: Merged from another thread.

I'm curious why a decision was made to over-reward max-max ascenders and late-ascenders, and to actively penalize early ascenders by giving no retro rewards for a base level 450 ascended 5*?

Eh, I very much doubt that anybody actually made that decision. I think they didn't expect to have to worry about this at all, so the entire retro thing just got slapped together, and nobody thought about consequences or incentives.

Anyway the number of players caught in the middle here (I have a champion Jubilee 5* -- my 4* was lvl480) is probably pretty low, and I imagine they'll do something for you via CS.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@S0kun said:
You're gonna need to be more specific.

Mod note: Merged from another thread.

I'm curious why a decision was made to over-reward max-max ascenders and late-ascenders, and to actively penalize early ascenders by giving no retro rewards for a base level 450 ascended 5*?

Eh, I very much doubt that anybody actually made that decision. I think they didn't expect to have to worry about this at all, so the entire retro thing just got slapped together, and nobody thought about consequences or incentives.

Anyway the number of players caught in the middle here (I have a champion Jubilee 5* -- my 4* was lvl480) is probably pretty low, and I imagine they'll do something for you via CS.

I wonder if they will and exactly what they'd reward.

6 covers (2500 shards + 1 cover) seems a no brainer if CS is going to do anything (which isn't at all clear since they implemented the system they have to avoid CS doing things).

But at least one of the posters here said he ascended a 370+280 and expects a 7th cover from the 280. But they have no way of knowing whether he ascended a 370+270 and then added 10 more covers or did the 370+280. It would seem unlikely that person would get the 7th cover.

KGB

Godzillafan67

A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

Carnage1484

@Godzillafan67 said:
A simpler mechanism for ascended characters would be to count them as two 370s and continue the regular awarding calculations.

Nobody would double max and they don’t want that.

GrimSkald

This really is a matter of using an existing system vs implementing a brand new system. The latter will take weeks, maybe even months, and will come at the expense of other product enhancements that they're already working on (possibly new everything depending on how big and/or compartmented their coding team is, but at the very least at the expense of new UI enhancements, back end code, that sort of thing.) They went with adapting the current system, which works imperfectly, but it presents an alternative to flooding CS with tickets.

The "break even" point is 455 (20 covers on the dupe or level 290) -- that's where you get everything you would have if you hadn't ascended them first. I'm curious to see if CS would award rewards for people at less than that "break even" point. I'd be the best way to handle it -- it still involves CS but at a fraction of the rate it would have been...

This begs the question - has anyone who sent in a CS ticket gotten an answer yet?