Invisible Woman (Classic) 4* - Rebalance & New Costume

13

Comments

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,916 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 29 March 2024, 12:32

    @Captain_Trips88 said:

    @dianetics said:
    I think her kit does not really lend her to being used in the current game so the rebalance wont help much.
    I don't want to see her on my team because she doesn't really work well with others.
    I don't want to see her on the other team, because she just goes invisible and it takes a while to match out her invisible tile and now that tile is fortified (thanks).

    If she got a kit overhaul I would like it more. Something to speed up her up and stop from being invisible for eternity.

    Something like, doing more match damage while invisible and creating a bubble everyturn. When you have a certain amount of bubbles drain all yellow AP, destroy all bubbled tiles, and do aoe damage based on that or somethng (just spitballing).

    Her problem always was she was slow and she locked out tiles giving you little to no benefit, and this rework probably won't help much.

    Surely she should have a really obnoxious invisible power? It’s kinda her thing!

    Definitely needs an entire rework powers wise to be viable in the current game. She was the very first 4* cover I obtained back in the day, and it is quite a travesty that we don’t have a decent FF representation. Guessing 5* versions of them all when the film eventually drops?

    I agree that she really should have the best invisibility ability in game.

    If I were to redesign her tool kit, I think it would look something like this:

    Grant Invisibility: (Passive) At the start of the battle or whenever you match a force bubble, Invisible Woman grants her team Invisibility for 2 turns. Add 1 turn of invisibility for each ally with the Fantastic Four affiliation on her team (not including Invisible Woman herself).

    Force Bubbles: 6 Blue AP

    Generate 4 bubbles that target enemy-special tiles. For each force bubble on the board, reduce damage to all allies (including Sue) by 5%. Create 3 Blue Strike tiles. Add an extra strike tile for each ally with FF affiliation on her team.

    Passive: When an ally with FF affiliation takes damage that reduces their health to under 50%, Sue generates four force bubbles.

    Force Field Crush: 8 Green AP

    Keep as is but add two more clauses:

    1. If Sue is the only member left on her team, she deals double the damage.
    2. (Passive) Sue is able to match away force bubbles.

    As Marvel's first family, what I would really like to see is better synergy among the Fantastic Four (and Doom get treated like a top tier villain). But I'll stop myself here before I go on my rant about how God Emperor Doom gets no respect.

    hashtag# Doomsavedthemultiverse hashtag# Where'sourDoombuff?

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards

    So I just checked and if she bubbles Wanda’s repeater, it pops back up on the next turn. Same thing with omega red’s CD.

    Yknow….. a bunch of updates ago, this wasn’t the case. If you bubbled Wanda’s repeater, it wouldn’t come back. Same with 3* Wanda’s CD.

    It’s a shame. It was VERY useful and now that I think about it, she would get sped up with Dr Strange a bit.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,538 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 29 March 2024, 14:22

    If her bubbles don't nullify CDs (because they just get placed again), she's essentially useless. She already will struggle to keep up with special tile spammers.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,153 Chairperson of the Boards

    It's almost always a question of synergy to me. Who does the design team want us to run her with? She doesn't do anything of value to help Thing, nor does he do anything to help her, and Reed's blue wants special spam of any flavor, so having her make less tiles is a nerf to whatever synergy that might have had, and she does it on the color he uses to take advantage of it anyway. Annihulus has no FF synergy, and 3* Torch only sort of helps Reed by making attack spam. 4* Human Torch isn't a member of the Fantastic Four, but his self propogating repeaters will eventually matter to Reed.

    I would ask the question: What is the point of invisibility, particularly team invisibility, when the current speed meta is AOE passive as previously mentioned? One of two characters who can exploit being sent invisible is 5* black panther, and you really want that to be short, not long. Giving Sue a short team invis on a cheap cast means you can turn move or be moved into an active power. but since BP desperately needs a buff, that only has so much utility currently and I wouldn't trust move or be moved to survive a rebalance since it is the most interesting thing he does and that is usually sacrificed on the altar of increased damage when these things happen. The other is Yellowjacket who does want his invis to last a long time, so these two potential partners are at odds with each other.

    Locking tiles is her other interesting feature, and could be highly annoying on a pvp defense team, but I don't think it will be after this change. I'll have to play it and see.

    I'm not really sure why there is no useful synergy between anyone on the Fantastic Four, either explicit in the power text or implicit in the power effects, but I would love it if something could be done about that. I've always found them to be a conceptually boring comic team, and they are a boring team to use in this game as well unfortunately. All of their best power synergies come from outside characters. At least with BP and Sue, there is some thematic appropriateness to it.

    As for Archangel, he is the blockchain of characters in this game, meaning: he is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. He counters an airborne meta that never materialized at the 5* (or any) tier, and on top of that, his one definining visual trait is that he has a huge pair of wings and he himself is unable to fly. It's very weird.

    Northstar was utterly useless on release when most of us established our first impression of him, and then he got a silent buff nobody knew about, so why would anyone even consider looking at him to know he had been fixed?

    Mysterio is both confusing and useless, which is sort of on brand, but like...what is he supposed to be doing? I wanted to like him as a purple battery, maybe after ascension he will finally be that purple battery the 5* tier just completely and inexplicably lacks.

    Yellowjacket is a forgettable character who doesn't synergize well with anyone, even if he himself is good. I would really just assume that is the reason he isn't used. Also he was released at the height of the immortal hulk meta, and so he was DOA at the time, and like Northstar I think he got filed into "not useful" and then nobody remembered why, they were just in the habit of not using him.

    Super Skrull is a swiss army knife character that doesn't seem to excel at anything other characters aren't doing better.

    5* Moon Knight is still useless to me, his buff didn't go far enough. I've tried making teams around him in Simulator and he just dies before he fires anything off.

    Elsa similarly isn't doing anything I need other than yellow generation, and that doesn't work well enough for me to use it.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,394 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you match that bubble then you have multiple tiles to take care of. If 5witch has two of her repeaters out you are going to get

    I remember many moons ago using her on a required node (maybe) with mindless ones and a cascade ripped loose 2 of the aoes wiping my team on the next turn.

    The mechanic is just bad and dated.

    That’s why I said she needs a kit overhaul and she needs to destroy the tiles.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 29 March 2024, 14:49

    Comic Sue can make a bubble around your head and suffocate you.

    Maybe a better tweak would have been casting the bubbles also set up a repeater that every 2 turns destroyed any locked tiles. And the opponent (say, BRB) wouldn’t benefit.

    It’s not like she makes force fields that persist forever. As soon as she wants to, they disappear. She uses them in lots of creative ways. One example: by making lots of them over and over, she can effectively walk on air.

  • MgoBlue51
    MgoBlue51 Posts: 91 Match Maker

    She's still in the "only use if required" mode. Doesn't move the needle at all. I just wish they'd focus their energy on making some sort of positive improvements. If a rebalance is going to occur, make it a good one. If you're just going to turn a "meh" into a "meh, but slightly less meh? Maybe?" , you've wasted your time and ours.

  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    edited 29 March 2024, 15:49

    @MgoBlue51 said:
    She's still in the "only use if required" mode. Doesn't move the needle at all. I just wish they'd focus their energy on making some sort of positive improvements. If a rebalance is going to occur, make it a good one. If you're just going to turn a "meh" into a "meh, but slightly less meh? Maybe?" , you've wasted your time and ours.

    Ikr. If you're just gonna pull levers and tweak numbers there are so many other characters with bloated AP cost that need it more. Just from the top of my head: Flaptain, Winter Soldier, 5* Widow. You're can't gaslight me and say those aren't underutilised.

    At this point I've given up asking. We had to rely on a poll to strongarm them into finally rework Dr Strange. It took a whole year to get one classic character out of many updated. I don't count Moon Knight because that was done to sell his costume. Hey, look Sue's got a new costume too. I wonder if there's a pattern here...

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,271 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you look at the bottom number examples of character use provided in this thread, IW is the only woman. My thought is the devs were trying to do something for this "Women Only" Boss Battle so chose to tweak IW.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,285 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bzhai said:

    @MgoBlue51 said:
    She's still in the "only use if required" mode. Doesn't move the needle at all. I just wish they'd focus their energy on making some sort of positive improvements. If a rebalance is going to occur, make it a good one. If you're just going to turn a "meh" into a "meh, but slightly less meh? Maybe?" , you've wasted your time and ours.

    Ikr. If you're just gonna pull levers and tweak numbers there are so many other characters with bloated AP cost that need it more. Just from the top of my head: Flaptain, Winter Soldier, 5* Widow. You're can't gaslight me and say those aren't underutilised.

    At this point I've given up asking. We had to rely on a poll to strongarm them into finally rework Dr Strange. It took a whole year to get one classic character out of many updated. I don't count Moon Knight because that was done to sell his costume. Hey, look Sue's got a new costume too. I wonder if there's a pattern here...

    They have a pattern of selling a costume with a rework. Obviously not only with reworks….

    This seems fine to me? It helps generate revenue, after doing work, for a character that a significant number of players already have rostered or champed and hence don’t need to spend on to access the new version.

    It also helps promote the change for players who aren’t as tuned in to updates etc.

  • rainkingucd
    rainkingucd Posts: 1,284 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    The costume is great, because it fixes her super weird base art (the neck really). 4* Iceman is another one who could probably get a usage uptic just by not having his base art look so creepy.

    The worst part about Bobby is that the art is actually accurate to his comic look!

  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker

    @bluewolf said:

    They have a pattern of selling a costume with a rework. Obviously not only with reworks….

    This seems fine to me? It helps generate revenue, after doing work, for a character that a significant number of players already have rostered or champed and hence don’t need to spend on to access the new version.

    It also helps promote the change for players who aren’t as tuned in to updates etc.

    No issues selling costumes. The issue is choice of character which didn't warrant any changes in the first place when there are so many more problematic ones.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 4,878 Chairperson of the Boards

    IW isn't/wasn't used because her powers are sorta complicated and don't do enough to reward figuring out that complexity.

    Why would I want to bubble special tiles when so many other characters can remove, steal, or destroy them? The bubbles may be thematic, but they're on an active power that doesn't actually deal with the tiles permanently.

    She's not quite as bad as everyone thinks, since the last update they did. They basically admitted that the bubbles are dumb -- her blue power also creates super strong strike tiles, and the damage number on green is really high, with or without bubbles.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,538 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 29 March 2024, 21:27

    @Bzhai said:

    @bluewolf said:

    They have a pattern of selling a costume with a rework. Obviously not only with reworks….

    This seems fine to me? It helps generate revenue, after doing work, for a character that a significant number of players already have rostered or champed and hence don’t need to spend on to access the new version.

    It also helps promote the change for players who aren’t as tuned in to updates etc.

    No issues selling costumes. The issue is choice of character which didn't warrant any changes in the first place when there are so many more problematic ones.

    I think the point people are making is that she absolutely deserves a rebalance and was/is problematic, but that the route they took didn't do anything to address her uselessness.

  • Jinx
    Jinx Posts: 188 Tile Toppler

    Anyone have her ascended? Have her at 369. Seems like that green could do massive damage with bubble. Going to give her a spin with Emma and Colossus.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 4,878 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Jinx said:
    Anyone have her ascended? Have her at 369. Seems like that green could do massive damage with bubble. Going to give her a spin with Emma and Colossus.

    Mine is lvl488.

  • Painmonger
    Painmonger Posts: 152 Tile Toppler

    I remember way back in the day when I tried to use her with Quicksilver since he also made bubbles (for some reason) thinking her bubbles would trigger his AoE. In those days it didn't work that way, each of their bubbles were different.

    Those are the only two who make bubbles even to this day, as far as I can remember. To echo what others have said, the rebalance she needs is to not be so tied to a special tiles type that only she can make & use it for those bubbles to be massively more impactful for the AP investment to get them on the board.

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards

    Mr fantastic also makes bubbles. With his lol black power.

  • Painmonger
    Painmonger Posts: 152 Tile Toppler

    @Tiger_Wong said:
    Mr fantastic also makes bubbles. With his lol black power.

    I didn't know he did that after his rework. I pretty much haven't used him since they changed him. At least that means there's a little more synergy between them.