Debate: Let's Un-nerf Bishop!

Bowgentle

Stunned!!!! Other

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
I really don't see how a one or two cover yellow OML ends up hurting the game. Especially if it makes players maybe play some more at lower levels. And it doesn't hurt the 5* game either. The game has evolved a lot over the years to the point where OML is probably a foot note.

This game doesn't have ads. They don't monetize the time you spend. There's no reason they'd want you to play for longer.

They make their money selling characters, and if you only need one, (especially at lower tiers where players actually spend money) it breaks their business model.

Players will outgrown him or are you saying nobody advances up the tiers any longer?

The justification they gave us around the time of the nerf was that he obsoleted every other character for lower tier rosters. I assume that meant that players weren't outgrowing him -- remember, we acquire covers and move up much, much faster than normal players.

That was true in 2016, but we're 8 years removed from that.
Who knows how fast normal players move up these days.
Certainly none of us do.

bluewolf

NO General Reserves at maximum, cannot absorb any more

At the time, OML was one of the only 5s in the game. If you acquired enough CP there was a decent chance you could get him (I remember pulling him and selling him because it was a red cover, and I didn't want to mess up my PVE scaling - I sold a Phoenix or two as well).

Now you would basically have to target him, although I think you get an OML for playing from daily rewards at a certain point - however, I think it's a black cover?

The odds of pulling an OML randomly are miniscule unless a special store is up.

If a player asks which character to target for their newer roster, I don't think anyone would say "OML yellow". Even unnerfed, his match damage would be much, much less useful vs a large number of other 5s and a single cover of many others would be better.

In other words, the confluence of availability and high usefulness has been left behind and an unnerfed OML would not be making new rosters feel like they didn't need more characters and covers. Just the meta 4s alone are both easier to get than before and would improve your play much more.

entrailbucket

NO General Reserves at maximum, cannot absorb any more

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
I really don't see how a one or two cover yellow OML ends up hurting the game. Especially if it makes players maybe play some more at lower levels. And it doesn't hurt the 5* game either. The game has evolved a lot over the years to the point where OML is probably a foot note.

This game doesn't have ads. They don't monetize the time you spend. There's no reason they'd want you to play for longer.

They make their money selling characters, and if you only need one, (especially at lower tiers where players actually spend money) it breaks their business model.

Players will outgrown him or are you saying nobody advances up the tiers any longer?

The justification they gave us around the time of the nerf was that he obsoleted every other character for lower tier rosters. I assume that meant that players weren't outgrowing him -- remember, we acquire covers and move up much, much faster than normal players.

That was true in 2016, but we're 8 years removed from that.
Who knows how fast normal players move up these days.
Certainly none of us do.

Well, I think they probably CAN move up faster, if they play optimally and follow the guides or whatever. Do they? I forgot what answer they gave to the "how many players have a champion 5*?" question, but it was still very low.

Bzhai

The release of Sebastian Shaw illustrates perfectly how someone's powers like Bishop can be interpreted without it being cheesy and broken.

HuracanDolor

NO General Reserves at maximum, cannot absorb any more

I’d rather them un-nerf Worthy Cap….. The old bishop was entirely too much.

rainkingucd

@entrailbucket said:
There are still a few ways to stop needing health packs. The difference is that they're all sort of convoluted or suboptimal -- if your only goal is to not use packs, you can do it, but everything else is sorta hard/bad.

I ran Patch/Daken/Loki well into 4* land because I was so committed to not using Health Packs. Only after they were downed would I start to explore other teams. Which is why I'm at 3441 today.

I've only used 1016 based on the Health Pack Milestone Quests.

Borstock

NO General Reserves at maximum, cannot absorb any more

@rainkingucd said:

@entrailbucket said:
There are still a few ways to stop needing health packs. The difference is that they're all sort of convoluted or suboptimal -- if your only goal is to not use packs, you can do it, but everything else is sorta hard/bad.

I've only used 1016 based on the Health Pack Milestone Quests.

Wow. Mine is at 22,833.

fnedude

Along similar lines, I also think we should un-nerf Gambit while we are at it.

He can have everything but the passive AP drain. That power can't exist (as we saw with Chasm) -- it just shuts down way too many characters.

Yeah, 3Hood says "hi!". 5Gambit's drain power was no worse than 3Hoods, boosted to 5* level. And, well look at here, 5Chasm still drains APs of EVERY color with 2 abyss tiles on the board., or 2 AP if 4 abyss tiles are on the board (lvl5)

IIRC, original 5Gambit drained up to 2AP (3@ lvl 5?) of 2 random colors.

And what was the non-nerf "solution" introduced after 5Gambit got nerfed? Kitty+BRB IIRC

entrailbucket

NO General Reserves at maximum, cannot absorb any more

Original 5Gambit drained 3ap of one color that you had more than 0 of, every turn. Make a match-3 on your turn? Next turn he's drained it all. The effect was oppressive.

Chasm (post-nerf) can only drain 2ap max, and the difference between 2 and 3 in a match-3 game is pretty significant. He also has to ramp up to 2. Gambit drained 3 every single turn, and didn't require tiles to do it.

Hood is a bad argument because he has like 10 hp, and his steal is board-conditional. Even ascended to 5* now, Hood's HP is half that of stronger characters. Gambit had high HP for a 5*.