An ascension question

MegaBee

I'll be ascending everyone ASAP, a decision driven mostly by FOMO.

rainkingucd

@MegaBee said:
I'll be ascending everyone ASAP, a decision driven mostly by FOMO.

Totally fair! That's been my general 4* approach since I'm playing at baby champ 5* level, so everyone ascended is now suddenly useful again (I was loving boosted 4Moon Knight5 during the Quandary events)

Since 3* are just a farm right now and only used when required, I'm a bit more patient on building them up since they are not terribly useful to me at 4* level, so @JoeHandle 's chart helped me want to maximize rewards on those 3*. Reality though is I'll have to see if I stay that patient once my 3a4 toons start hitting 370. I may suddenly see an opportunity for a shiny new 5* (i.e. 3* Iron Man) and not have any desire to wait for the double max champing 3* process

entrailbucket

Ascended 4* Moon Knight was awesome -- a lot stronger than the 5* version.

I should get 3* Kang ascended to 5* relatively soon, and I'm interested in what he'll look like. The 1* characters are ok at 5* -- Iron Man is bad but has a lot of health and match damage, Storm's abilities are pretty good, Spidey's are almost great.

I think there's a lot of really interesting choices to be made here that may deviate from the math.

JoeHandle

@rainkingucd said:

@MegaBee said:
I'll be ascending everyone ASAP, a decision driven mostly by FOMO.

Totally fair! That's been my general 4* approach since I'm playing at baby champ 5* level, so everyone ascended is now suddenly useful again (I was loving boosted 4Moon Knight5 during the Quandary events)

Since 3* are just a farm right now and only used when required, I'm a bit more patient on building them up since they are not terribly useful to me at 4* level, so @JoeHandle 's chart helped me want to maximize rewards on those 3*. Reality though is I'll have to see if I stay that patient once my 3a4 toons start hitting 370. I may suddenly see an opportunity for a shiny new 5* (i.e. 3* Iron Man) and not have any desire to wait for the double max champing 3* process

Glad it was of use. I don't have any specific ascencions to ponder on my own roster so I was happy to "borrow" yours!

There is an error, the one that says 700 covers to get to 550 should say 713, I missed the 13 to make QS #4 on that one.

It was interesting to see how few covers you could get to 450 in, starting from 2x 266, which is where my 3* projects will start from. Also interesting to see that it's possible to "avoid" so many of the potential champ rewards on the way.

Paying 3x 3* covers per 4* level sucks.

Paying 4x 3* covers per 5* level seems okay. Barely.

Paying 4x 4* covers per 5* level is @#$%^&*^%$#@$%^

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:
Ascended 4* Moon Knight was awesome -- a lot stronger than the 5* version.

I should get 3* Kang ascended to 5* relatively soon, and I'm interested in what he'll look like. The 1* characters are ok at 5* -- Iron Man is bad but has a lot of health and match damage, Storm's abilities are pretty good, Spidey's are almost great.

I think there's a lot of really interesting choices to be made here that may deviate from the math.

Yeah, stuff like - you probably SHOULD wait to get covers when Rulk becomes a feeder.
But I also expect him to be a monster as a 5, so... I'll probably ascend when his first boost week rolls around.

Pantera236

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:
Ascended 4* Moon Knight was awesome -- a lot stronger than the 5* version.

I should get 3* Kang ascended to 5* relatively soon, and I'm interested in what he'll look like. The 1* characters are ok at 5* -- Iron Man is bad but has a lot of health and match damage, Storm's abilities are pretty good, Spidey's are almost great.

I think there's a lot of really interesting choices to be made here that may deviate from the math.

Yeah, stuff like - you probably SHOULD wait to get covers when Rulk becomes a feeder.
But I also expect him to be a monster as a 5, so... I'll probably ascend when his first boost week rolls around.

This week he's boosted.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:
Ascended 4* Moon Knight was awesome -- a lot stronger than the 5* version.

I should get 3* Kang ascended to 5* relatively soon, and I'm interested in what he'll look like. The 1* characters are ok at 5* -- Iron Man is bad but has a lot of health and match damage, Storm's abilities are pretty good, Spidey's are almost great.

I think there's a lot of really interesting choices to be made here that may deviate from the math.

Yeah, stuff like - you probably SHOULD wait to get covers when Rulk becomes a feeder.
But I also expect him to be a monster as a 5, so... I'll probably ascend when his first boost week rolls around.

And this is another interesting decision, where I feel like there's no wrong answer.

What you're asking is, if Red Hulk becomes a feeder for some future 5*, will that guy be better than 5* Red Hulk?

Who knows!?! We can't even know right now! You could play it safe and wait if you're risk-averse, or jump in now and get a very strong character, possibly missing out on something better later.

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:
Ascended 4* Moon Knight was awesome -- a lot stronger than the 5* version.

I should get 3* Kang ascended to 5* relatively soon, and I'm interested in what he'll look like. The 1* characters are ok at 5* -- Iron Man is bad but has a lot of health and match damage, Storm's abilities are pretty good, Spidey's are almost great.

I think there's a lot of really interesting choices to be made here that may deviate from the math.

Yeah, stuff like - you probably SHOULD wait to get covers when Rulk becomes a feeder.
But I also expect him to be a monster as a 5, so... I'll probably ascend when his first boost week rolls around.

And this is another interesting decision, where I feel like there's no wrong answer.

What you're asking is, if Red Hulk becomes a feeder for some future 5*, will that guy be better than 5* Red Hulk?

Who knows!?! We can't even know right now! You could play it safe and wait if you're risk-averse, or jump in now and get a very strong character, possibly missing out on something better later.

Yeah it's the kind of decision that really elevates this above your regular match 3 game.

JoeHandle

@entrailbucket said:

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:
Ascended 4* Moon Knight was awesome -- a lot stronger than the 5* version.

I should get 3* Kang ascended to 5* relatively soon, and I'm interested in what he'll look like. The 1* characters are ok at 5* -- Iron Man is bad but has a lot of health and match damage, Storm's abilities are pretty good, Spidey's are almost great.

I think there's a lot of really interesting choices to be made here that may deviate from the math.

Yeah, stuff like - you probably SHOULD wait to get covers when Rulk becomes a feeder.
But I also expect him to be a monster as a 5, so... I'll probably ascend when his first boost week rolls around.

And this is another interesting decision, where I feel like there's no wrong answer.

What you're asking is, if Red Hulk becomes a feeder for some future 5*, will that guy be better than 5* Red Hulk?

Who knows!?! We can't even know right now! You could play it safe and wait if you're risk-averse, or jump in now and get a very strong character, possibly missing out on something better later.

Even if he becomes a feeder, most 5 * s are duds, and most that have a moment in the sun are fleeting. Obsoleted, downbalanced, or just left to rot by creep. Very few endure, and 5*s don't feed nobody never (so far ).

So, very little risk, esp from the Long Game perspective.

Can try to have it both ways .... a friend plans to max/min ascend one copy of certain 4 * s and leave them at lvl 450, and see how it goes while they build a new 4 * copy. Infinitesimal risk of getting "burnt", but far less risky than crossing a street!

Bowgentle

@Pantera236 said:

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:
Ascended 4* Moon Knight was awesome -- a lot stronger than the 5* version.

I should get 3* Kang ascended to 5* relatively soon, and I'm interested in what he'll look like. The 1* characters are ok at 5* -- Iron Man is bad but has a lot of health and match damage, Storm's abilities are pretty good, Spidey's are almost great.

I think there's a lot of really interesting choices to be made here that may deviate from the math.

Yeah, stuff like - you probably SHOULD wait to get covers when Rulk becomes a feeder.
But I also expect him to be a monster as a 5, so... I'll probably ascend when his first boost week rolls around.

This week he's boosted.

Lol I didn't even notice.
Yeah this will be interesting.

meadowsweet

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

TL;DR version: the devs either screwed up their math (and refuse to admit that) or made a conscious decision to punish / slow you down for going the Max-Max route.

There's no punishment; nor should any "screwing up" be assumed.

The reason I say that is that the devs were allegedly saying on Discord (I heard this second-hand; I'm not on Discord) that whether you Bind two Max-Max, a Max-Min, or anything in between, they should require precisely the same number of total covers to get to Level 550. But that's not what happened.

If they had said from the outset:

"the Max-Min option gets you to higher levels faster and requires fewer covers, while the Max-Max option earns you additional bonus champ rewards but requires significantly more covers to get to level 550, or you can find some compromise in between, balancing out the two"

then sure, yeah, you can defend them for making an interesting (and intentional) game design decision. But... that's not what happened either.

JoeHandle

@meadowsweet said:

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

TL;DR version: the devs either screwed up their math (and refuse to admit that) or made a conscious decision to punish / slow you down for going the Max-Max route.

There's no punishment; nor should any "screwing up" be assumed.

The reason I say that is that the devs were allegedly saying on Discord (I heard this second-hand; I'm not on Discord) that whether you Bind two Max-Max, a Max-Min, or anything in between, they should require precisely the same number of total covers to get to Level 550. But that's not what happened.

If they had said from the outset:

"the Max-Min option gets you to higher levels faster and requires fewer covers, while the Max-Max option earns you additional bonus champ rewards but requires significantly more covers to get to level 550, or you can find some compromise in between, balancing out the two"

then sure, yeah, you can defend them for making an interesting (and intentional) game design decision. But... that's not what happened either.

One of the keys to long-term coexistence with MPQ is putting no stock in anything the mouthpieces say, ever.

It was true in the Demi days, and so far it's true in the days of BCS.

I'm referring solely to what is in the game.

meadowsweet

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

TL;DR version: the devs either screwed up their math (and refuse to admit that) or made a conscious decision to punish / slow you down for going the Max-Max route.

There's no punishment; nor should any "screwing up" be assumed.

The reason I say that is that the devs were allegedly saying on Discord (I heard this second-hand; I'm not on Discord) that whether you Bind two Max-Max, a Max-Min, or anything in between, they should require precisely the same number of total covers to get to Level 550. But that's not what happened.

If they had said from the outset:

"the Max-Min option gets you to higher levels faster and requires fewer covers, while the Max-Max option earns you additional bonus champ rewards but requires significantly more covers to get to level 550, or you can find some compromise in between, balancing out the two"

then sure, yeah, you can defend them for making an interesting (and intentional) game design decision. But... that's not what happened either.

One of the keys to long-term coexistence with MPQ is putting no stock in anything the mouthpieces say, ever.

It was true in the Demi days, and so far it's true in the days of BCS.

I'm referring solely to what is in the game.

Okay? But first you said "you can't accuse them of lying" and now you're saying "yeah well they lie all the time; you shouldn't trust anything they say"?

trenchdigger

Are we 100% sure the devs are incorrect? Has anyone actually ascended a character through a second level of max max ascension to confirm that the credit given is only 100 levels and not 100*the number of covers to gain each of the 100 levels?
I still believe we are in the realms of speculating what will happen, unless I have missed a positive confirmation of how it works.

KGB

@meadowsweet said:

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

TL;DR version: the devs either screwed up their math (and refuse to admit that) or made a conscious decision to punish / slow you down for going the Max-Max route.

There's no punishment; nor should any "screwing up" be assumed.

The reason I say that is that the devs were allegedly saying on Discord (I heard this second-hand; I'm not on Discord) that whether you Bind two Max-Max, a Max-Min, or anything in between, they should require precisely the same number of total covers to get to Level 550. But that's not what happened.

If they had said from the outset:

"the Max-Min option gets you to higher levels faster and requires fewer covers, while the Max-Max option earns you additional bonus champ rewards but requires significantly more covers to get to level 550, or you can find some compromise in between, balancing out the two"

then sure, yeah, you can defend them for making an interesting (and intentional) game design decision. But... that's not what happened either.

One of the keys to long-term coexistence with MPQ is putting no stock in anything the mouthpieces say, ever.

It was true in the Demi days, and so far it's true in the days of BCS.

I'm referring solely to what is in the game.

Okay? But first you said "you can't accuse them of lying" and now you're saying "yeah well they lie all the time; you shouldn't trust anything they say"?

There is a 3rd possibility. That is they just didn't realize it cost more covers to do it in different ways. I suspect that when they tested and were planning this, they only checked the ascension math on the first level up (2->3 or 3->4 or 4->) where what they said is true. There is no penalty. It's only on further ascension that the penalty happens and they likely only tested one path.

KGB

primetime21

For me a lot of it depends on what I currently have when the character becomes eligible for ascension. For example, I have a fully champed 4* Mordo and another at level 365 (well when it was announced, now I have him at 368). For those, and any other where I have a second at level 360+, I'll probably fully champ the second before ascending. For others, for example, Doctor Bong who just came out but will be ascendable soon, I'll probably ascend ASAP, or maybe get the LL from level 271 and then ascend. In the last go around, I waited to get to 280 if they gave a specific 5* cover and I make continue to do that.

I have really have no 3* that I'm close to having 2 maxes because I would farm them and never have more than 1 champed at a time, so I don't think I'll be waiting to fully max 2 on those.

JoeHandle

@meadowsweet said:

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

@JoeHandle said:

@meadowsweet said:

TL;DR version: the devs either screwed up their math (and refuse to admit that) or made a conscious decision to punish / slow you down for going the Max-Max route.

There's no punishment; nor should any "screwing up" be assumed.

The reason I say that is that the devs were allegedly saying on Discord (I heard this second-hand; I'm not on Discord) that whether you Bind two Max-Max, a Max-Min, or anything in between, they should require precisely the same number of total covers to get to Level 550. But that's not what happened.

If they had said from the outset:

"the Max-Min option gets you to higher levels faster and requires fewer covers, while the Max-Max option earns you additional bonus champ rewards but requires significantly more covers to get to level 550, or you can find some compromise in between, balancing out the two"

then sure, yeah, you can defend them for making an interesting (and intentional) game design decision. But... that's not what happened either.

One of the keys to long-term coexistence with MPQ is putting no stock in anything the mouthpieces say, ever.

It was true in the Demi days, and so far it's true in the days of BCS.

I'm referring solely to what is in the game.

Okay? But first you said "you can't accuse them of lying" and now you're saying "yeah well they lie all the time; you shouldn't trust anything they say"?

As you can read in this trail, I pushed back on your assertions of malice, making reference to what is live in the game. See "Hanlon's Razor", contemplate.

The game is not lying about what is in the game ... the game wouldn't be playable if it did!

You responded, clarifying that your assertions were in response to what a mouthpiece may have / possibly / you think / you heard was written on a social site somewhere. (Assume first, confirm never?)

In response to that revealing revelation, I advised, based on a decade of experience with this game, and other work experiences, to never rely on what any mouthpiece has to say. All what a company mouthpiece saying something tells you is what the company mouthpiece said. The dribblings of any company mouthpiece doesn't dictate, or even reflect, reality; in regards to MPQ, such dribblings don't dictate what happens in the game, any more than what you or I say does.

Even if some mouthpiece wrote what you heard they maybe might have written

Instead of listening, your last indicates a determination to be/remain butthurt. Carry on.

ThaRoadWarrior

Nico ascended is just as good as I thought she’d be.

Daredevil217

@entrailbucket said:

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:
Nobody should be collecting rewards for their own sake, rewards are a means to improving your roster.

Hmmm ... just a crazy spitball toss here, but maybe ... mayyyyyyyybe ... players focus on collecting rewards as a means of improving their roster.

Sounds crazy I know, but I think the possibility bears further scrutiny.

That's...what I was saying, though?

Take MODOK. MODOK, ascended to 5*, is crazy good. His active powers are cheap and do completely insane damage. He's a 4* who feeds Arcade. Ascended MODOK is better than Arcade all day every day.

If your focus is on improving your roster, and not just collecting rewards for rewards' sake, it is an absolute no brainer to ascend MODOK as quickly as possible. You miss out on some Arcade rewards, but MODOK is way, way better than Arcade. Waiting to get the Arcade rewards doesn't improve your roster.

But is your goal to get only the good characters to 550 or all characters to 550? Using max/max you will get Modok to 550 at the same rate as min/max and Arcade will get a bunch of extra covers to help his journey to 550 as well. You get BOTH! Isn’t that why you do classics and bemoan anyone who targets/goes all-in on specific characters? I just feel the idea of choosing MODOK over Arcade due to power level (when you can have both) flys in the face of your general strategy to max everyone regardless of their power level or how long it takes.

For me, I feel like if a 4* character isn’t bringing anything to the table that is going to improve the existing toolkit I use daily, then I can probably wait to ascend and collect rewards. If the character is bringing something I’ll use regularly, I’ll ascend regardless of level. Polaris, Grocket, Juggs are obvious examples as they see use even unascended. IM40 is a 3* example. I’m currently chasing Karnak because I think he will pair very well as a support to my Jane/Shang team, but if he gets boosted before I double max it won’t kill me not to have him that week. I’ll power through just like any other tough meta week. Or maybe I’ll use stockpiled milestone rewards since he’s pretty close to done. But the FOMO thing doesn’t really scare me. There’s always another event, another boost week, etc. And I could always change up my strategy if I change my mind down the road.

Bowgentle

Shots fired.