Known Issue: Early Champion Rewards for Ascended Characters

Daredevil217

@jp1 said:

This rollout set endgame folks back years. That should be factored in.

What do you mean by this?

I would argue the only people with the rosters to take advantage of the bug were end game players.

If you are referring to ascended 4s being the new “best” id argue only end game players will ever get there. If anything, as with most major shifts, the rich got richer.

Now if you’re saying that endgame players who had everything champed and were going through the motions on the treadmill each day now have a whole lot of new carrots to chase, I’d agree. But is that inherently a bad thing? And is that really being set back when the gap between endgame and the have nots has widened more?

Borstock

I don't see how anyone can call the busted version of the rewards "fair" for the action taken. I ascended a bunch of 1's and 2's, a couple of 3's, and a single 4 and somehow walked away with 50 LTs and 500+ CPs. What version of the game economy looks anything like that?

Daredevil217

@Borstock said:
I don't see how anyone can call the busted version of the rewards "fair" for the action taken. I ascended a bunch of 1's and 2's, a couple of 3's, and a single 4 and somehow walked away with 50 LTs and 500+ CPs. What version of the game economy looks anything like that?

I don’t think anyone did call that “fair. I think many people want it to be fair, but the point others are making is that the game (nor life) never really was fair

jp1

@Daredevil217 said:

@jp1 said:

This rollout set endgame folks back years. That should be factored in.

What do you mean by this?

I would argue the only people with the rosters to take advantage of the bug were end game players.

If you are referring to ascended 4s being the new “best” id argue only end game players will ever get there. If anything, as with most major shifts, the rich got richer.

Now if you’re saying that endgame players who had everything champed and were going through the motions on the treadmill each day now have a whole lot of new carrots to chase, I’d agree. But is that inherently a bad thing? And is that really being set back when the gap between endgame and the have nots has widened more?

The carrots will take additional 5-7 years (or more) to achieve. That’s more what I’m talking about. The additional rewards at least give a head start.

ThaRoadWarrior

I think the super saiyan 4* characters are going to have to prove themselves to be "worth" it before you can really say it is meaningful. Right now it kind of feels more like a trophy tier from the ones I've raised up (some of which like Medusa and Rogue are top tier on paper, but aren't life changing in practice so far). I truly believe this move was to activate the 1* tier, and to help some of those people who live down in the 2 and 3* tier as casuals feel like they are doing something to progress even if they aren't playing hard enough to pull from the legendaries regularly. Am I quite as excited to elevate a 4* to 5 now that the rewards have been "fixed?" no, not really, but a lot of that is because the ones I did do don't seem to be meeting my expectations as tools in the toolbox about as much as the reward leak being plugged I guess.

Adric1123

I don't know if any devs are reading this far in the comments, but I have a suggestion if you want to give some compensation for the awards bug.

Give a couple free roster spots.

Anybody who took advantage of the bug is sitting on a bunch of empty roster spots and the last thing they need is more. Most people who didn't take advantage of the bug probably didn't because they don't have the roster spots for duplicates and a few free ones to get started with would be very helpful.

Ultrace

@jp1 said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Now if you’re saying that endgame players who had everything champed and were going through the motions on the treadmill each day now have a whole lot of new carrots to chase, I’d agree. But is that inherently a bad thing? And is that really being set back when the gap between endgame and the have nots has widened more?

The carrots will take additional 5-7 years (or more) to achieve. That’s more what I’m talking about. The additional rewards at least give a head start.

It's good that the carrots will take several years to achieve. We don't want players going through the motions on a treadmill as Daredevil put it. We want them working towards things, earning new rewards, changing up their experiences. A "head start" only puts them at treading water sooner. Endgame players can increase or even max a select few characters quickly given their power and leverage over the game's modes. Maxing out all of the characters or even all the meta-relevant ones, should take time. This shake-up has made it so they aren't undisputed kings of the hill without actual work now. They had their time at the top of the pile (which justified the previous effort put in), and they can get it back, but they have to earn it.

Daredevil217

@jp1 said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@jp1 said:

This rollout set endgame folks back years. That should be factored in.

What do you mean by this?

I would argue the only people with the rosters to take advantage of the bug were end game players.

If you are referring to ascended 4s being the new “best” id argue only end game players will ever get there. If anything, as with most major shifts, the rich got richer.

Now if you’re saying that endgame players who had everything champed and were going through the motions on the treadmill each day now have a whole lot of new carrots to chase, I’d agree. But is that inherently a bad thing? And is that really being set back when the gap between endgame and the have nots has widened more?

The carrots will take additional 5-7 years (or more) to achieve. That’s more what I’m talking about. The additional rewards at least give a head start.

Okay, so by “setting back” you aren’t referring to “compared to other players”. But rather, the “finish line” of having everyone champed and being able to keep up. I don’t think the developers want us to not have carrots to chase. I think over time with the various boosts to the ecosystem (shards, saved covers, retro feeders, better vaults/deals, increased rewards, lower slot costs, etc.) the “value” of a 5* character in terms of rarity or something to chase has gone way down. Then they released supports which were a pendulum swing way in the other direction- almost impossible to get but very important if you want to compete.

One could argue that ascended 4* are the new “end game” in terms of rarity (the jury is still out on power), simply due to dilution. It is much much harder to get dual 4* to max champ status than a getting 13 covers of a particular 5* that often drops half built and with several stores focusing on that character. I think this is the point you’re trying to raise and if it is, I don’t disagree. What the impact of this monumental shift is, no one quite knows yet. It’s too early to say whether this is just a “trophy tier”. My level 475 Nico and my level 508 Kitty seem to think there is real power in these 4*.

jp1

@Ultrace said:

@jp1 said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Now if you’re saying that endgame players who had everything champed and were going through the motions on the treadmill each day now have a whole lot of new carrots to chase, I’d agree. But is that inherently a bad thing? And is that really being set back when the gap between endgame and the have nots has widened more?

The carrots will take additional 5-7 years (or more) to achieve. That’s more what I’m talking about. The additional rewards at least give a head start.

It's good that the carrots will take several years to achieve. We don't want players going through the motions on a treadmill as Daredevil put it. We want them working towards things, earning new rewards, changing up their experiences. A "head start" only puts them at treading water sooner. Endgame players can increase or even max a select few characters quickly given their power and leverage over the game's modes. Maxing out all of the characters or even all the meta-relevant ones, should take time. This shake-up has made it so they aren't undisputed kings of the hill without actual work now. They had their time at the top of the pile (which justified the previous effort put in), and they can get it back, but they have to earn it.

Sorry, I disagree. How much commitment do you think is necessary to to secure your spot? 20 years?

The change should add a little flavor for top end players and shake the game up for new ways to grow for everyone else. Taking people down a notch for their decade of commitment and support isn’t really a good look imho.

Yes, I know the vets will achieve these goals quicker than newer players. But adding years and years of additional content for those who were comfortable after all their hard work just isn’t what I would call a reward.

Overall, there is plenty to like about the change, but that isn’t one of the things I count as a positive.

ThaRoadWarrior

has anyone been roundly trounced by an ascendant team yet? or are these just who moved my cheese type complaints on principal? because i've handily flattend somebody who I guess paid for that 1 iron man 5 deal in pvp with no trouble, and I've yet to see any big 4* teams in pvp or have meaningful success running my own.

jp1

@Daredevil217 said:

@jp1 said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@jp1 said:

This rollout set endgame folks back years. That should be factored in.

What do you mean by this?

I would argue the only people with the rosters to take advantage of the bug were end game players.

If you are referring to ascended 4s being the new “best” id argue only end game players will ever get there. If anything, as with most major shifts, the rich got richer.

Now if you’re saying that endgame players who had everything champed and were going through the motions on the treadmill each day now have a whole lot of new carrots to chase, I’d agree. But is that inherently a bad thing? And is that really being set back when the gap between endgame and the have nots has widened more?

The carrots will take additional 5-7 years (or more) to achieve. That’s more what I’m talking about. The additional rewards at least give a head start.

Okay, so by “setting back” you aren’t referring to “compared to other players”. But rather, the “finish line” of having everyone champed and being able to keep up. I don’t think the developers want us to not have carrots to chase. I think over time with the various boosts to the ecosystem (shards, saved covers, retro feeders, better vaults/deals, increased rewards, lower slot costs, etc.) the “value” of a 5* character in terms of rarity or something to chase has gone way down. Then they released supports which were a pendulum swing way in the other direction- almost impossible to get but very important if you want to compete.

One could argue that ascended 4* are the new “end game” in terms of rarity (the jury is still out on power), simply due to dilution. It is much much harder to get dual 4* to max champ status than a getting 13 covers of a particular 5* that often drops half built and with several stores focusing on that character. I think this is the point you’re trying to raise and if it is, I don’t disagree. What the impact of this monumental shift is, no one quite knows yet. It’s too early to say whether this is just a “trophy tier”. My level 475 Nico and my level 508 Kitty seem to think there is real power in these 4*.

Yes, that’s exactly what I was talking about. The game is just too mature to add such a massive undertaking without revamping the economy. At least in my opinion.

NemoAbernnigan

I've only seen one ascended so far - a 1* Iron Man. I won, but his 2500 + match damage on his strongest color was surprising.

Also I wish this hadn't been rolled out in the lead up to the anniversary. I would've ascended some if I wasn't saving my HP for the anniversary - I've only got 12200 saved and with each new roster slot costing 1200 I would have drained the bank trying for ascencions - something I would have been down for if I wasn't hoarding for the anniversary vaults coming up next month - or in 2 days I guess at this point haha.

jp1

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
has anyone been roundly trounced by an ascendant team yet? or are these just who moved my cheese type complaints on principal? because i've handily flattend somebody who I guess paid for that 1 iron man 5 deal in pvp with no trouble, and I've yet to see any big 4* teams in pvp or have meaningful success running my own.

You could call them who moved my cheese type complaints. Some of us are playing with the goal of a complete roster, this has thrown a wrench in that for a pretty significant amount of time.

Overall, I like the change…just think it should come with more rewards, not less.

ThisisClemFandango

I'm still staring at my phone not really getting it.
Reminds of that time my brother tried to explain that some cows are small toys and others are just far away.

ThaRoadWarrior

@jp1 said:

Overall, I like the change…just think it should come with more rewards, not less.

I do agree with this, particularly at the upper end of the roster. It really does feel a bit like a step down to take a natural born 4 into 5* territory, but activating the lower tiers (1-2, probably 3) is win win as best I can figure so far having not actually raised one up. Coincidentally my first 3* available is going to be Psylocke just like the example lol. Guess I'll see. She is a bottom tier 3* in my opinion, and would be solidly bottom tier as a 4* as well, so it'll hinge on whether or not the reward factory is worth it there.

entrailbucket

@jp1 said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
has anyone been roundly trounced by an ascendant team yet? or are these just who moved my cheese type complaints on principal? because i've handily flattend somebody who I guess paid for that 1 iron man 5 deal in pvp with no trouble, and I've yet to see any big 4* teams in pvp or have meaningful success running my own.

You could call them who moved my cheese type complaints. Some of us are playing with the goal of a complete roster, this has thrown a wrench in that for a pretty significant amount of time.

Overall, I like the change…just think it should come with more rewards, not less.

I'm an endgame player with the goal of a complete roster (22 550s as of today) and I LOVE this change.

The game was stagnant. The metagame at the highest levels was the same few characters over and over, and everyone basically had the same roster. If some new character was added that was good, everybody had a hoard to immediately max them out. Even the players who win stuff are consistent.

This throws a huge wrench into everything. A bunch of new characters are relevant, and we don't even know who they are yet! It's complete chaos, and everyone's optimal strategies suddenly aren't optimal. It might take years for players to stabilize!

Stagnant, solved metagames are boring. In one shot they just upset everyone's plans, and it's the most exciting thing that's happened in years. Adapt or die.

ThaRoadWarrior

This game is so interesting. the "real" game here is roster curation. It's more like Sim City than Marvel vs Capcom. It presents itself to you like matching-3 is the core mechanic, and surely in the early days it was that, but truly now it's building an econonomy engine (champ reward farms) that will allow you to respond to geopolitical events (sweeping game changes, Chasm-level meta shifts) or not. Some players like myself have our assets tied up in land (just tons of characters without a lot of hard currency), and others are super liquid with vast reserves of resources ready to unload on th right opportunity (hoarders). It's very hard to pivot a roster to capitalize on or recover from a significant enough change. I think we all probably prefer our own playstyle, but for me I feel like in many ways my roster has been in the right place at the right time for these features when they roll out - whether that was bonus heroes, SCLs, shards, and now this I guess. Some people were way better off, but I wasn't quite as flat footed as i might have been.

KGB

@NemoAbernnigan said:
I've only got 12200 saved and with each new roster slot costing 1200 I would have drained the bank trying for ascencions - something I would have been down for if I wasn't hoarding for the anniversary vaults coming up next month - or in 2 days I guess at this point haha.

Ascending frees slots, not uses them up. After ascending all my 2 and 3* characters I freed up 16 slots. Or are you someone who doesn't have a 2/3* farm?

KGB

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

@jp1 said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
has anyone been roundly trounced by an ascendant team yet? or are these just who moved my cheese type complaints on principal? because i've handily flattend somebody who I guess paid for that 1 iron man 5 deal in pvp with no trouble, and I've yet to see any big 4* teams in pvp or have meaningful success running my own.

You could call them who moved my cheese type complaints. Some of us are playing with the goal of a complete roster, this has thrown a wrench in that for a pretty significant amount of time.

Overall, I like the change…just think it should come with more rewards, not less.

I'm an endgame player with the goal of a complete roster (22 550s as of today) and I LOVE this change.

The game was stagnant. The metagame at the highest levels was the same few characters over and over, and everyone basically had the same roster. If some new character was added that was good, everybody had a hoard to immediately max them out. Even the players who win stuff are consistent.

This throws a huge wrench into everything. A bunch of new characters are relevant, and we don't even know who they are yet! It's complete chaos, and everyone's optimal strategies suddenly aren't optimal. It might take years for players to stabilize!

Stagnant, solved metagames are boring. In one shot they just upset everyone's plans, and it's the most exciting thing that's happened in years. Adapt or die.

It'll take a week for the top pve guys to figure out if there's a new best team, and everyone will immediately have that.
Remember, those guys are all sitting on the same 550s and gigantic hoards they can Crack to get covers for the new pve meta 4s, if there are any.

PVP yes, all bets are off.

ThaRoadWarrior

@KGB said:

@NemoAbernnigan said:
I've only got 12200 saved and with each new roster slot costing 1200 I would have drained the bank trying for ascencions - something I would have been down for if I wasn't hoarding for the anniversary vaults coming up next month - or in 2 days I guess at this point haha.

Ascending frees slots, not uses them up. After ascending all my 2 and 3* characters I freed up 16 slots. Or are you someone who doesn't have a 2/3* farm?

KGB

I was someone with one of everyone on roster, I didn't have a max then a dupe. I'd just flip them as they hit max level, except the 4* tier where they took so long to max out I didn't want to sell them off (plus most of them were still useful as required charcters). I've had to add slots to double up all my 1* for this, and I'm about to have to add one for Psylocke.