Ascending Characters - A Champ Reward Analysis

trenchdigger

@bbigler
I think your edit comment above is actually the most interesting and applies to most if not all the tiers, namely that depending on the number of covers you use to do the analysis, results in different routes being optimum.

For instance, I looked at 2* ascension, hybrid (to minimise lost progression rewards) v max max:

At 1404 covers (which gets the 2* to 550 using the hybrid approach), the hybrid is miles ahead of max max (18 more LT, 579 more command points).

However by 1804 (when max max has just reached 550), max max is miles ahead (15 more LT, 272 more command points), because hybrid gained very little from those extra 400 covers.

And of course by 2,808 (second 2* to 550) hybrid approach will be superior again.

So the optimal sways back and forth between the 2 approaches. Maybe after 20,000 covers and 50+ years one of the routes will stay permanently ahead, but I'm not going to try and work out when this happens because frankly its not relevant.

I've looked at this every which way and can't decide which way I will go. Probably hybrid to get the boost in rewards and levels earlier (an additional benefit of hybrid, but difficult to quantify and therefore factor into the calculation).

bbigler

@trenchdigger
Ah, now you see what I see; it’s not a straight line of rewards but has peaks and valleys, and the number of covers compared can change the result. That’s why I tried a new approach to calculate the average number of covers used per pull (CP/LT).

When it comes to the 4-star tier, time is a factor. Those covers come in slow and are widely dispersed. There’s real value in ascending a 4-star now and adding 80+ levels. But if I have no intentions to ever play them voluntarily, I’ll wait.

As for the lower tiers, their covers come in fast enough to wait for 2 max champs. But if you want to fight with them regularly, like 3*Thanos, then take the faster route. The reward difference is not huge but the time saved is.

Sometimes I think we’re splitting hairs here to find the optimal way, but you can argue that a small difference is multiplied when used for all your characters. Nevertheless, I still think this comes down to personal choice and preference, so let’s not criticize each other for doing things differently.

bbigler

There’s something else to mention about 4-Star champ rewards, it’s those 5-star covers and shards. They are very valuable, especially for the metas. So, recycling your Shuri over and over to build up your Okoye to 550 is certainly smarter than just getting more LT and CP from ascending.

Scofie

@bbigler said:
There’s something else to mention about 4-Star champ rewards, it’s those 5-star covers and shards. They are very valuable, especially for the metas. So, recycling your Shuri over and over to build up your Okoye to 550 is certainly smarter than just getting more LT and CP from ascending.

This is true. But then you should also consider that pulling Classics or LL could lead to bonus 5* shards, which are better than shards for a specific character.

Paladin82Y

@bbigler - Thank you so much for posting this analysis. As a new player, it has been a challenge understanding many of the terms, concepts, strategies, etc. So, I very much appreciate your efforts here.

Can you confirm whether the cost vs. reward is even worth ascending a 1* to 2* just to then max champion them and sell them at 2* ?

I am just entering 2* land. The Ascended 3* Spiderman that the game gave us for free is now my highest level hero and I use him in almost every fight. (I am guessing that he probably would cause me to face teams I cannot beat if I ever enter any PVP since I will be facing teams with better rosters than me overall, but he is wonderful for me in PVE).
So, getting anybody to 550 is years (decades?) away for me.

I have started to open Standard tokens to hopefully find more 2* covers. I hated to waste all those 1* covers that I have been pulling by selling them for 100 ISO, but I am not clear on what the ROI is for ascending 1s to max champion 2 and then selling them and starting over.

Has anybody published the analysis of whether it is a net positive to quick sell ascended 1s at the 2 level?
If I understand the process, the HP is at least a wash. I spend HP to buy two slots. I build two 1* characters to max and bind one to the other to ascend them to 2*. I get one slot back. I add covers to the ascended hero until they are champion maxed and sell them. I get the second slot back.
I start the whole process over. Do I come out ahead using this approach?

Looking forward to reading your feedback on this.

bbigler

@Paladin82Y
First, here’s the difference between selling 76 x 1-star covers or ascending to 2* max champ and selling:

Selling 76 covers = 7,600 ISO
OR
Level up 2 x 1-stars: spend 57,300 ISO

Then gain 2-star champ rewards:
16,750 ISO
190 Hero Points
6 Heroic tokens
5 Command points
2 Mighty tokens
2 Elite tokens

Then sell the max champ for
65,000 ISO
125 HP

Net Gain:
23,910 ISO
315 Hero points
5 Command points
and the 10 tokens above

Clearly, it’s better to ascend and sell, BUT you would be better off ascending 1-Star Spidey and Storm to 3-Star and maxing them out at 266. Why? Because they would be a better fighting team than you have now. You can do that quickly, which improves your fighting power.

Progression in this game is a balance between spending resources to improve your main fighting teams and getting champ rewards from the other characters you don’t use. The priority though is improving your main fighting teams, trust me. This will enable you to get better rewards, thus better characters and the cycle continues as you progress upwards.

Don’t be afraid of PVP, the other players at your level are in the same situation. The match-making algorithm is pretty good. But I wouldn’t ascend into the 4-star tier until you have the meta 4-stars. There are some nasty teams there, but the 3-star tier is far more manageable. You probably want to focus on building defensive characters that can fight all day long with few health packs.

Since you’re just entering 2-Star land, I’d recommend Wolverine & Daken because of their healing and Widow because of her AP steal and passive damage. Magneto & Storm are a 1-trick pony, but a really good one. Cap Marvel is all around good, especially if you can get some killer team ups from your alliance.

But in the mean time, 1-star Spidey & Storm use all 6 colors and can be leveled up quickly. They can fight for you until you get someone better.

Paladin82Y

@bbigler - Once again, huge thanks for the breakdown. Clearly, it pays to ascend the 1* heroes. I may go ahead and bite the bullet to spend for the extra slots on the 1s that currently are not allowed to ascend in the hope that the developers will allow them to ascend much much sooner than later. I hate to sell all those covers, but it will be an even more bitter pill if I am sitting on an army of 1 non-ascendable heroes for six months or more (taking up slots that I need to start adding 3*s).

And double huge thanks for the advice on continuing to ascend Spidey and Storm. I received the free 1-ascended-to-3 Spidey that the game gave to everybody and he is indeed my highest level hero. I now use him in every battle. So, I may not try to continue ascending my now-2* ascended Spidey since I already have an ascended 3* Spidey, but I will definitely work on bumping Storm up to join Spidey at 3*.

I have not added any covers to my 3* ascended Spidey as I was afraid that would hurt me even worse if I wanted to dip my toe into PVP (I still do not really understand how my strength is calculated to determine who one has to fight but am sure that I have read that having one hero higher level than all the rest of your roster can hurt you).

Punter1

I would advise against holding any more 1s than you need to, just on the odd chance of them being added to ascensions any time soon.

Roster slots are super premium when first starting. Especially now with hundreds of characters to roster (I can't imagine starting fresh!). For DPD you probably still want a couple of 1s to be able to complete the 1* node as all resources are useful, but sell the other covers for the non-ascendable characters.

When they do finally add more 1s to ascension, you'll be able to get covers easy enough then to get started on that journey.

bbigler

@Paladin82Y
I agree with @Punter1, don’t roster non-ascendable 1-stars because you need those slots for everyone else. They give out 1-star covers like water; you can always get a ton more later. If you don’t want to spend real money buying Hero Points, then roster the best and don’t feel bad about selling some covers, especially 4-stars. Your 1, 2 and 3-Star champ farms will produce tons more rewards than 4-stars. But if you get a meta 4-star, try to keep it.

As for PVP, the algorithm looks at the levels of your top 3 characters (maybe even top 5). Just try some PVP matches and see what you get. There’s nothing to lose but certainly rewards to gain.

This whole new Champions system makes me want to start over again with a new roster just to see how fast I can progress with ascended characters and what PVP will be like.

WhiteBomber

Is this pinned somewhere? This should probably be pinned.

bbigler

Probably pinned in the Tips & Guides section. @YumeWarlock ?

Ed_Dragonrider

With batch #2 coming this should definitely be pinned somewhere easy to find.
I'll finally have a few ascendables this time and I was thinking about the best way to do it. I vaguely remembered this thread, but had a hell of a time finding it again...

@Scofie @fight4thedream can this please be pinned somewhere like Tips & Guides? Thanks!

Edit: A huge thank you to @bbigler for all the hard work and maths on this. It's very appreciated! ❤

JSP869

@bbigler said:
Okay, sorry my OP was confusing; I was trying to be brief but let me explain in more detail. Since rewards get better with each tier, you want to spend your covers in the highest tier possible, but if you can double dip on rewards along the way without slowing you down, then do it. Also, the LT rewards at 167 & 271 are so easy to get with a few extra covers, it’s worth breaking the pattern to get them. Here’s a breakdown of my shorthand patterns above.

3-Stars:
....
....
2-Stars:
1. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
2. Level up that ascended character to 266
3. Build another 144 champ
4. Build a level 100 champ
5. Bind the 2 above to get a 169
6. Bind the 266 and 169 to get a 271
7. Level up that ascended character to 370
Now Repeat Steps 1 to 6, which are…
8. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
9. Level up that ascended character to 266
10. Build level 144 and 100 champs
11. Bind the 2 above to get a 169
12. Bind the 266 and 169 to get a 271
13. Bind the 370 and 271 to get a 450
14. Level up that 450 to 550

I expect I should follow the 2-star procedure when Ascending 1-star Juggernaut to 2-star, then the 3-star steps, and so on.

But the big question is do I Ascend 1-star Juggernaut using a fully-covered, level 50 dupe?

Or Ascend him by sacrificing a single-cover Juggs?

edit Never mind. Looks like you cannot Ascend a 1-star using anything less than a level 50 dupe.

ThisisClemFandango

@BlixTheFrog said:
Yeah we spent three days on heavy maths but now with the bug I guess we should all HURRY UP and panic. 😂

"Doctor would you say that now would be the perfect time to panic?"
"Yes I would Kent"