Ascending Characters - A Champ Reward Analysis

bbigler

I've been analyzing this for many days now and wanted to present my findings to the community. If you haven't been following the Champions 2.0 thread (and it's 30 pages), here's a summary:

1. You can ascend a character to the next tier by binding (combining) them with another copy of that character. That copy needs to be at max level with 13 covers and at the same tier. If the copy is champed with extra levels, then those levels transfer to the next tier, but at a reduced rate. Then you can add levels to the ascended character, but at the reduced rate and earn champ rewards.
2. The reduced cover rate is as follows:
   3-Star Tier: 2 covers to 1 level
   4-Star Tier: 3 covers to 1 level
   5-Star Tier: 4 covers to 1 level
   Shards transfer directly to the next level
3. Ascending by using a copy with the minimum levels gets the ascended character to 550 the fastest (by using the least amount of covers).
4. But you can "double-dip" on champ rewards by ascending with 2 Max Champs. Unfortunately, this takes more covers to reach 550 because of the reduced cover rates.

This brings us to the question of this post: what is the best way to ascend characters for both speed and champ rewards?

This analysis was done by using a fixed number of covers and then applying them in different ways to see what the rewards would be. But because the first champ reward in the 3 & 4 star tiers is a Latest Legends token, I added a few extra covers to these minimum amounts to reach 550:
1-Stars: 1,460 (10 covers)
1-Stars: 1,508 (13 covers)
2-Stars: 1,404
3-Stars: 952
4-Stars: 526

I tested 4 methods, which are:
1. Max + Min (i.e 266 + 167 => 370 + 271)
2. Max + Max (i.e 266 + 266 => 370 + 370)
3. Hybrid #1 (i.e. 266 + 266 => 370 + 303)
4. Hybrid #2 (i.e. 266 + 266 => 370 + 271)

The Hybrid Approaches use Max+Max in the starting tier but Max+Min in the subsequent tiers

======================================================
TEST RESULTS:

4-Star TIER
This is straightforward since Max+Min and Max+Max use the same number of covers to 550, but the Max+Max gives you the most rewards. This could be considered the best way, but ascending a 4-star to level 450 now instead of later has value too. So, I recommend ascending the meta 4-Stars now (Max+Min) but ascending the other 4-Stars later (Max+Max). It's your choice, but here's the reward difference:

112,500 Iso-8
4,000 Hero Points
250 Command Points
10 Latest Legends
1 x 5-Star Cover
2500 5-Star Shards

1-Star TIER
This is equivalent in reward analysis to the 2-Star Tier since 1-Stars cannot be champed.

3-Star TIER: Using 957 Covers

Method 1: (Max + Min) => Level 550
266 + 169 => 270 => 370 => 450 => 550
266 + 169 => 271

449,500 Iso-8
25,300 Hero Points
949 Command Points
6 Heroic Token
2 Mighty Token
48 Latest Legends
1 x 4-Star Cover
800 4-Star Shards
CP + LT = 86 Pulls

Method 2: (Max + Max) => Level 501
266 + 266 => 303 => 370 => 475 => 501
266 + 266 => 303 => 370

544,000 Iso-8
13,600 Hero Points
973 Command Points
12 Heroic Token
4 Mighty Token
53 Latest Legends
2 x 4-Star Cover
1600 4-Star Shards
CP + LT = 92 Pulls

Method 3: (Hybrid #1)
266 + 266 => 303 => 370 => 458 => 534
266 + 266 => 303

528,500 Iso-8
16,150 Hero Points
963 Command Points
12 Heroic Token
4 Mighty Token
55 Latest Legends
1 x 4-Star Cover
800 4-Star Shards
CP + LT = 94 Pulls

Method 4: (Hybrid #2)
266 + 266 => 303 => 370 => 450 => 550
266 + 169 => 271

507,000 Iso-8
25,950 Hero Points
986 Command Points
9 Heroic Token
3 Mighty Token
52 Latest Legends
1 x 4-Star Cover
800 4-Star Shards
CP + LT = 91 Pulls

======================================================

2-Star TIER: Using 1,411 Covers

Method 1: (Max + Min)
144 + 94 => 166 => 266 => 270 => 370 => 450 => 550
144 + 94 => 166 => 167
144 + 94 => 166 => 266 => 270 => 271
144 + 94 => 166 => 167

514,500 Iso-8
26,060 Hero Points
969 Command Points
34 Heroic Token
16 Mighty Token
4 Classic Legends
48 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 87 Pulls

Method 2: (Max + Max)
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 303 => 370
144 + 144 => 191 => 266
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 303 => 338
144 + 144 => 191 => 266

529,000 Iso-8
9,470 Hero Points
558 Command Points
68 Heroic Token
32 Mighty Token
8 Classic Legends
37 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 59 Pulls

Method 3: (Hybrid #1)
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 278 => 370 => 452 => 535
144 + 144 => 191
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 278
144 + 144 => 191

555,500 Iso-8
16,170 Hero Points
907 Command Points
58 Heroic Token
26 Mighty Token
4 Classic Legends
45 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 81 Pulls

Method 4: (Hybrid #2)
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 271 => 370 => 450 => 550
144 + 100 => 169
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 271
144 + 100 => 169

548,000 Iso-8
26,440 Hero Points
979 Command Points
46 Heroic Token
20 Mighty Token
4 Classic Legends
48 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 87 Pulls

======================================================
TLDR: THE BOTTOM LINE

Method 4: Hybrid #2 is the best method because it's the perfect balance between speed and rewards. The concept is to use the Max+Min method, BUT you can double dip on champ rewards when building the Max character by using 2 Max Champs at the starting tier. The Min character in the bind should be built using the least number of covers, BUT there's an exception to apply a few extra covers to get the rewards at 167 and 271. You don't want to use 2 Max Champs in subsequent tiers, because then you're paying the ascending "tax" (2:1 or 3:1 cover ratios) extra times. Here's the ideal order IMO:

3-Stars: ===========================
1. Build 2 x 266 champs and ascend to 303
2. Level up that ascended character to 370
3. Build another 266 champ
4. Build a 169 champ
5. Bind the 2 above to get a 271
6. Bind the 370 and 271 to get a 450
7. Level up the 450 to 550

2-Stars: ===========================
1. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
2. Level up that ascended character to 266
3. Build another 144 champ
4. Build a level 96 champ
5. Bind the 2 above to get a 167
6. Bind the 266 and 167 to get a 270
7. Level up that ascended character to 370
Now Repeat Steps 1 to 6, more or less...
8. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
9. Level up that ascended character to 266
10. Build level 144 and 100 champs
11. Bind the 2 above to get a 169
12. Bind the 266 and 169 to get a 271
13. Bind the 370 and 271 to get a 450
14. Level up that 450 to 550

1-Stars follow the same pattern as 2-Stars

For the characters that are not "ascendable" right now, I would roster and build dupes of them.

ShionSinX

3. Ascending by using a copy with the minimum levels gets the ascended character to 550 the fastest (by using the least amount of covers).

4. But you can "double-dip" on champ rewards by ascending with 2 Max Champs. Unfortunately, this takes more covers to reach 550 because of the reduced cover rates.

CMIIW, but following the official post, the information I got is like this:

Using a 3* as example, if you have one lv266 and one lv166, you can ascend it to lv270 4*. Then with 3x 3* covers you get it to lv271. But if your second copy was lv169, you will get those 3 champ rewards AND your ascended will come at lv271, the very same level with the same amount of extra covers, but you got 3 extra champ rewards from the 3* and will also get that champ reward on the ascended instantly (as if you were champing a character with saved covers).

In the end you'd need a lv266 and another 313 covers total (13 to champ the second copy) for it to reach lv370, and part of those could be 100 extra from a second max champed copy (besides the initial 13) for 33 levels and a spare (1/3 level).

(havent done it yet, waiting for the Steam update to go live)

Zarqa

@bbigler have you seen the reports of higher ascension rewards than expected? I’m assuming that might change all of this. Unless the extra rewards are applied equally across you 4 strategies? Or it might get patched of course…

mooken

Do we have confirmation that combining 2 max-champ 3-370s gives us a 3-475?

Edit: instead of, say, 300 covers worth of 3-star cover credit, applied at a 4 cover-per-level rate?

bbigler

@ShionSinX
That’s an excellent point and I agree it’s better - taking the “Min” character to 169 when the ascending character will also be a 4-star Min. I’ll edit the original post.

@Zarqa
The higher ascension awards are surely a bug that I expect will be patched soon. Apparently, adding a cover for a partial credit is triggering the Champ reward function.

@mooken
I believe that’s been confirmed already

Tony_Foot

Updated my threes only didn't wait until they were maxed due to the bug. Got 73 LT doing the 12 I could right now despite being under level 240. Also 600CP and 9000HP.

There will be pitchforks. Do threes now no matter what level they are.

bladewing

With this reward bug, is it more beneficial to bind characters at higher levels? Or apply the covers/shards after binding?

Bowgentle

Don't expect the bug to be active for long, that'll be fixed REALLY fast.
Ascend now or never.

bladewing

So apply shards/covers before binding to get max rewards with the bug? Is that right?

DeNappa

Thanks... but.... okay maybe I'm being dumb but I have no idea how to read your post.

@bbigler said:
(snip)
Method 4: Hybrid #2 is the best method because it's the perfect balance between speed and rewards. The concept is that you ascend with 2 Max Champs if that character will be maxed in the next tier, otherwise ascend with the minimum.

This confuses me. Ascend with 2 maxchamps if the character will be maxed? Wait, but you can never immediately max the next tier?

Let's take the 2* example

Here's the order:
2-Stars
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 270 => 370 => 450 => 550
144 + 94 => 166 => 167
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 270 => 271
144 + 94 => 166 => 167

I get the "maxchamp (144) binds to maxcovered (94)" gives a 166 ascended 3*. And the 144+144 gives a 191 3*.
But then you make one of them 167 and the other one 266? And then that's suddenly a 270/271?? 🤯

Itsmeabxab

This is way too complicated for a cell phone game lol

BlixTheFrog

Yeah we spent three days on heavy maths but now with the bug I guess we should all HURRY UP and panic. 😂

bigjojo04

@DeNappa said:
Thanks... but.... okay maybe I'm being dumb but I have no idea how to read your post.

@bbigler said:
(snip)
Method 4: Hybrid #2 is the best method because it's the perfect balance between speed and rewards. The concept is that you ascend with 2 Max Champs if that character will be maxed in the next tier, otherwise ascend with the minimum.

This confuses me. Ascend with 2 maxchamps if the character will be maxed? Wait, but you can never immediately max the next tier?

Let's take the 2* example

Here's the order:
2-Stars
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 270 => 370 => 450 => 550
144 + 94 => 166 => 167
144 + 144 => 191 => 266 => 270 => 271
144 + 94 => 166 => 167

I get the "maxchamp (144) binds to maxcovered (94)" gives a 166 ascended 3*. And the 144+144 gives a 191 3*.
But then you make one of them 167 and the other one 266? And then that's suddenly a 270/271?? 🤯

Yea i was utterly confused as well with the ‘only ascend with max level if able to end up max ascension’ since i was under the same assumption that that could NEVER occur. That’s why i just stopped caring to try and understand this nonsense and moved on.

Too many numbers and too much information and none of it means anything to me anymore.

Bowgentle

I just gave up and did what Bucket did.
To hell with optimal.

Domitronas

@Itsmeabxab said:
This is way too complicated for a cell phone game lol

They are called SMARTphones for a reason nowadays, either you're in or you're out

Punter1

Yes this is convoluted - but the hybrid #2 makes sense. What's not obvs is this requires the same number of covers as the base situation and nets you a 550 while collecting as many champ rewards along the way and double dipping as much as possible. What I am not sure about is tracking and if it will be easy to end up "wasting" covers easily... oh well back to a spreadsheet for this game (maybe)

What should also be stressed and isn't by @bbigler the 4* champ reward tree is pretty compelling to double dip on. It requires NET 200 more covers for 1/2/3s if you MAX your 2nd 4. Perhaps not a good cover>rewards trade at 3-star level... but very good at 1-star.

200 more covers creates an additional:
112k ISO
250 CP
4k HP
10 LT

so 20LT equivalent - or 1 LT for 10 1* covers, that's a pretty solid conversion rate.

bbigler

Okay, sorry my OP was confusing; I was trying to be brief but let me explain in more detail. Since rewards get better with each tier, you want to spend your covers in the highest tier possible, but if you can double dip on rewards along the way without slowing you down, then do it. Also, the LT rewards at 167 & 271 are so easy to get with a few extra covers, it’s worth breaking the pattern to get them. Here’s a breakdown of my shorthand patterns above.

3-Stars:
1. Build 2 x 266 champs and ascend to 303
2. Level up that ascended character to 370
3. Build another 266 champ
4. Build a 169 champ
5. Bind the 2 above to get a 271
6. Bind the 370 and 271 to get a 450
7. Level up the 450 to 550

2-Stars:
1. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
2. Level up that ascended character to 266
3. Build another 144 champ
4. Build a level 100 champ
5. Bind the 2 above to get a 169
6. Bind the 266 and 169 to get a 271
7. Level up that ascended character to 370
Now Repeat Steps 1 to 6, which are…
8. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
9. Level up that ascended character to 266
10. Build level 144 and 100 champs
11. Bind the 2 above to get a 169
12. Bind the 266 and 169 to get a 271
13. Bind the 370 and 271 to get a 450
14. Level up that 450 to 550

bbigler

@bladewing said:
So apply shards/covers before binding to get max rewards with the bug? Is that right?

The bug gives you extra rewards in subsequent tiers, not the starting tier. My advice above is for long term plans. Ethically, it feels wrong to exploit the bug (even though I know everyone is doing it).

Codex

Thank you @bbigler your second explanation was much easier to understand.

bbigler

@Punter1 Spending 200 more covers in the 4* tier is good, but not as good as spending them in the 5* tier. You could spend those 200 covers starting another ascended 1-star, which would be at level 239.

This is something I considered: what’s the best reward track for endlessly recycling and ascending 1s to 5s? The max+max method wastes a lot of covers in the lower tiers.

Perhaps a simple calculation could be by dividing the total rewards by the total number of covers used in both methods. This would result in fractions of rewards, but the higher fraction wins.

There’s also the value of time - meaning a 550 in 9 months is worth more than a 550 in 12 months. But you also don’t want to ruin your MMR with a group of 1-Star 550s. I think common practice will become hoarding standards when your 1-stars reach your MMR, then maxing out and selling them.

WhiteBomber

@bbigler said:
3-Stars:
1. Build 2 x 266 champs and ascend to 303
2. Level up that ascended character to 370
3. Build another 266 champ
4. Build a 169 champ
5. Bind the 2 above to get a 271
6. Bind the 370 and 271 to get a 450
7. Level up the 450 to 550

2-Stars:
1. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
2. Level up that ascended character to 266
3. Build another 144 champ
4. Build a level 100 champ
5. Bind the 2 above to get a 169
6. Bind the 266 and 169 to get a 271
7. Level up that ascended character to 370
Now Repeat Steps 1 to 6, which are…
8. Build 2 x 144 champs and ascend to 191
9. Level up that ascended character to 266
10. Build level 144 and 100 champs
11. Bind the 2 above to get a 169
12. Bind the 266 and 169 to get a 271
13. Bind the 370 and 271 to get a 450
14. Level up that 450 to 550

YES! The English translation! Thank you very much for the investment here (which I imagine was awful, or at least would be for me). If all of this data is correct (which I will never run my own tests to prove you wrong) you are officially a hero. @IceIX let's get started on that 5 star bbigler.

Unless anyone has any counter points based off hard data (and also written in a readable format), this is the approach I am going with. Thanks again!