Casualty

Opperstamper

I'll start with a TL;DR: This is a plea to ask Oktagon to fix the 2 biggest things that cause a bad player experience. It has already taken too many casualties.

Our coalition family (Black Phoenix, home of YouHave1Job and BlackLotus, among others) has lost some gifted players over this, and I know about other players who have left recently because they feel that the player experience is going down at an alarming rate. These are all prominent players that serve as rolemodels in the community. I can give specific details upon request, but will not disclose it publicly for privacy reasons.

Moreover, tracking the bracket flips for coalition events has shown some interesting data. Where the first 3000 players joined around 22-25 hours after event start just a couple of months ago, it's now around 38-42 hours into the event. Vacation time and an easier "max charges"-schedule have impacted this too, but that doesn't account for the full decrease in participation. The "fun"-factor is disappearing.

Standard is littered with “I win” combo decks.
These decks are not fun to play against and players are leaving this great game. What decks am I talking about: Danitha/Blade, Godo/Blade, and Kiora/Rocco.

My proposed solution would be to limit these combos to triggering X number of times. I’d say X equaling three would be good, but the exact number isn’t as important as the limiting principle, provided that the value of X prevents the combo from being an “I win” button. Most players don’t like facing decks with an “I win” button because there is less interactivity. If the player or the AI assembles the “I win” button, then they generally just win (especially true of the Kiora/Rocco combo). A lot of players dislike playing these decks too, but feel like they have no choice, because outracing the opponent is a better gamble than trying to fight against it.

Additionally, there are a lot of bugs out there.
Of course some are bigger than others, but some are really breaking down the player experience.
1. A very recent example is Kiora, she's not just broken when played with Rocco.
2. Marisi is another, ruining the experience of those who play against it. Marisi has been reported on Januari 25, 2023, and usage has increased since that day.
3. Void Rend: June 17, 2022 (and probably just a text issue).
4. Casualty not destroying creatures with Prevent Damage: August 3, 2022.
Not only does this lead to a distrust in your willingness to fix these bugs, it also causes less reports. Why would a player report any bug if it doesn't get fixed but knowledge about abusability will be more widespread? No one will self-sabotage like that, so they keep the information to themselves. Of course, these are just some examples. The full list of reported bugs is found in the bug forum.

Oktagon, you’ve made a great game. But we need to take steps to protect the game and ensure that more players don’t leave. In addition to fixing the problem that is rearing its head now in the form of these combo decks, it’d be great if you could have a pre-release checklist for your developers that included seeing if any such combos were present and addressing those combos before release. We’re all only human, so inevitably some combos will be missed and thus not able to be addressed until after release. But even having a search for these combos as a step that is pursued before release would be helpful.

Cut Your Losses - address these points. The community will thank you for it.

camo

i'm considering quiting this game for the coalition event feels like a chores instead of fun.

• the bracket system should be change into dynamic that fit everyone or increase it to be large enough to fit everyone into single bracket, so its fair for everyone to have same competition, making waiting for bracket to flip no longer relevant.

• total charges are too many, we like to play this for fun and still able to spend time with our family and friends during weekend.

• rewards bracket need to be modify so that missing only one objective doesn't automatically kick your rank to 100-300+, but instead should fit you into second reward bracket, missing two objective into third reward bracket, and so on.

Gabrosin

Limiting the number of times a loop can occur might solve the problem, but also might represent a programming challenge when it comes to identifying what makes something a loop.

An easier fix would be a change in design philosophy. Cards that fetch other cards simply should not fetch them directly into play or fetch them into hand with full mana. It's at the center of all these loops, and a lot of past loops and brokenness as well. Whir of Invention? Meeting of the Five? Hazoret's Undying Fury? Jeleva? Deploy the Gatewatch? Killer Instinct? Prismatic Bridge? These cards have been the backbone of the most powerful and problematic decks that players have ever created. They should all get nerfed to create a happier, healthier environment.

Vorazg

On behalf of SWW, basically everything Opper said -- particularly bug fixes and evidence that day-to-day things are being dealt with in a timely manner rather than continuing to only work on the next release to keep the gravy train ($) rolling.
Cheers,
V

madwren

We have a very unhealthy meta at the moment. Combine this with the lack of rotation and I'm afraid the last group of dedicated players will finally start drifting away. I don't necessarily blame the players: people gravitate towards optimal combinations and "I win" buttons. At times, I have in the past, too. However, every event just feels so stale. Every game seems to be against Dakkon or PMA Ajani, using the same cards and the same shells. I've never felt so disengaged with the game in the seven years we've had coalitions.

Sythe200

I agree. The combo decks take all the fun out of coalition events. I frankly hate playing the danitha/blade combo but i feel like I have to in order not to screw my coalition out of points. Please fix the broken combos.

Spaz69

I agree with @Opperstamper. These loop combo decks take the fun out of new sets and current standard. There’s plenty of loop shenanigans to be played in Legacy format and that’s OK!
Oktagon, please fix these broken loops/cards in standard!!! Too many players have left and the game is becoming a “get my loop working first” chore

DAllofAbove

Porting over cards has got to be a difficult job, but both DaniBoSS and Kiora combos don’t exist in paper. Design philosophy is not my area of expertise, but there has to be something closer to the intent even with the limits set by deck size and mana matching. As stated above, PLEASE for the love of all the gods of Theros fix the bugs. Then nerf infinite combos or design better flash/support defenses. (If you can completely change a card’s function on a creature, surely you can do so on a spell or support that disables OTKs…)
Please help. Our beloved ship MGTPQ is foundering.

aaronfetty

This comes down to a simple matter of treating the game similar to the paper game and aggressively attacking the combo or loop decks. Possibly ban toxic cards just for the weekend events and maybe leave them legal for other formats.

Julie71

I agree with everything said above. most people here know i have worked very hard to bring attention to game breaking bugs. and have had huge flack for addressing loop decks that break peoples spirits. myself included, i personally have canceled vip, I run a top 10 coalitions and hate facing loop decks that greg runs well. just recently I have made the decision to step down after finding out some information about the state of some of these loop decks. my coalition is running currently at 16 out of 20 player's that is horrible. this past weekend the coalition battle didn't even flip.
so think about that less then 3000 players joined. ???? is this the end of mtgpq??? I don't know, but for me i will be not playing on the weekends.

MforVendetta

I’m not in a top-tier coalition, but even with casual players we used to get in the top 50 (barely, but still). Now we lose folks so quickly we barely crack 70 and a lot of them are frustrated with the game itself.

Regarding the “I win” decks, is it possible to program the ai to simply not take advantage of the OP cards? Like to decline the option to fetch or copy? That way it’s not a card nerf, just an ai change.

Fixing the bracket/rewards is the biggest gripe for me. I wouldn’t mind losing to an op deck if I still had a chance of getting decent rewards. But losing one match out of 18 shouldn’t gatekeep good rewards. These are not quick matches, with intense ones taking 10, 15 mins at a time. We’re investing a LOT of time in this for a mobile game, and I think effort and compensation should match that.

Machine

I totally agree with all of the above. Unfortunately, we've pointed all of these issues out to @Oktagon_Support, but nothing changes. Nada!

I posted this this morning:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/88840/oktagon-q-a-session-july-2023#latest

The game is going downhill in a very hard pace and I hear and see the same complaints over and over again. I don't understand why @Oktagon_Support is not addressing these issues, I don't understand why @Oktagon_Support isn't transparent on what they are working on, I don't understand why @Oktagon_Support didn't take my advice for granted to create an overview of all the questions we asked in the monthly Q&A and update us accordingly. We need more insight in what is happening in the background. The total lack of communication is outrageous and disrespectful.

I was a fervent bug reporter, and indeed, since the fix rate has dropped dramatically, I no longer report them. I am wasting my time on these forums asking @Oktagon_Support questions, providing advice, pointing out bugs etc. No reply? OK, have it your way. I'm no longer putting my time in you either.

Ampersand

I agree with everything stated above. Moreover, the delayed Standard rotation is INCREDIBLY unhealthy for this game. The meta is both the most stale and most toxic it's been since I started playing competitively back in 2017. I'm seriously considering finally stepping away from MtG:PQ.

Ekkias

I agree that the current meta is not fun and actually kind of stressful.

Easy fix: an effect that fetches a creature, either directly to the board (like Blade) or with full man'a to hand (like Kiora), also disables that creature until the end of the turn. Thus, no infinite summon loop.

Please do something to fix the state of play soon.

Lagartha

Well worded, Opper! I have been a daily active player for 7 years and I'm ready to call it quits over these loops. It totally takes all the fun out of the game.

Darker

I just want to add my voice to echo what others have already stated so clearly. Even though I am a sucker for combos, the ones that require no set up or creativity are not fun or engaging and the new rotation schedule ensures the meta stays unfun for a LONG time.

The people who have been seriously talking about leaving the game, are some who we cannot do without given all the time, effort and talent they pour into organizing our coalitions and communities, without which, the game itself will die. We should heed their words.

EmmaJane

Agree all.

100%

TheHunter

Hi @Oktagon_Support you know I'm one of your biggest fans so I'm here to 100% support Opperstamper's points and add my own for you to think about:

1. The players leaving and giving up right now have lived and played happily through all the Legacy loops, especially Omniscience. This is 5000% worse. The Kiora and Danitha loops in particular are monotonous, relentless, and have driven all the variety and joy out of the game. The fact that Standard rotation has been extended for a year means we can all see nothing but these dreadful decks for the foreseeable future.
2. I have cancelled my VIP and will not renew until these loops have been fixed. I can't put money into a game that doesn't care about its players. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

PLEASE make fixing these loops your TOP priority.

LoboX01

@Oktagon_Support

Another voice here supporting everything above. I just said it this weekend, this game is not fun anymore. I just played 2 matches on RP, guess what? - First against Dakkon DaBoss, second against Dakkon Kiora/Rocco... enough said?

I don't want to give up on my coalition (a top 10), but I gave up on events other than weekends. There is zero, literally ZERO incentive for me to play for resources, and waste time and/or money on this. I don't care about new cards, I don't care about new mechanics. What is the point? I have to use the very same 10-20 cards day in day out, match in match out. Either one the loop decks ( and we have plenty now) or try to use the anti-loop deck that I don't dare to change because then I am screwed, my coalition score screwed.

Octagon, same goes for Revolting Planeswalker event... I can't even try out something new, try a new mechanic, because the moment I do that a loop deck kills me, and I am locked out from the rest of the nodes... how stupid is that...

So basically I have lost interest playing other events for resource/ or fun, I am forced to use the very same deck in every RP event, and in every coalition event. This is NOT fun, this is the opposite, a daily repetitive, chore. The only reason I am still doing it is my coalition, my community. How long this is going to keep me in here? I don't know, but with the prolonged standard change, my guess would be that I am not going to make until next standard rotation.

For me this game was collecting new cards, trying new mechanics, new Planeswalkers, so I can use those in coalition events, or in new events, talk about them in community, having fun with those.

I raised my concerns when DaBoss started to gain speed, nothing happened. Some response were "get used to it, prepare yourself against it". Well in the last 2 months my only loss in coalition events was a freeze (refer back to bugs, anyone?) I guess I can conclude that I am more or less well prepared, and also was lucky that the loop did not start in turn 1. So the point is not that I am complaining about losing all the time, but for me the fun part is gone.

@Oktagon_Support as you can see, you still have a community who CARES enough to bring you these concerns, again and again, and not just give up and quit (although that community is getting smaller I am afraid), so just please care enough from your side to try to address these.

AcidRhapsody

I Agree with everything said above, this game shouldn't feel like a chore, which it does now that we're being forced into defending against these unfun loops at every turn, you've proven you can deal with these issues before like in the case with Rem/Warfare. What's stopping you now?

Do better.

Sarah

I have heard these same complaints in FTA; we’ve got a couple of high-level, long term players ready to through in the towel and I believe them.

I have both Danitha & Blade of Shared Souls but I haven’t been playing them because it’s boring for me. This weekend was the first event where I felt I couldn’t play the decks I wanted to play and had to change them to meet the new meta.

Even then, I still lost because I simply cannot be bothered to click enough (through the loop timer) in order to have a big enough stack of Danithas to handle the one that my opponent will drop next turn. It may not be a surprise to learn that the AI is much more efficient at executing this loop than I, a simple human with a short attention span, am.

I was saddened to visit some other the other communities and see so many of my friendly rivals—people I have been playing against for the better part of a decade—feeling so despondent about the state of the game.