Reason Chasm’s counters failed
Comments
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This forum has an ignore function, perfect for any users whose posts you find "exhausting."
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@Itsmeabxab said:
@entrailbucket said:
This is why I don’t come to the forums often. A few people just arguing to argue. Reading your posts.. so exhausting.
I don’t use chasm because he’s annoying to play, so I don’t care if he’s nerfed or not. I would play pvp more if he wasn’t the meta.. he’s just as annoying to play against as he is to use on offense.
To be fair it was impressive how he managed to employ a a gish gallop with a strawman argument with a circular argument with a red herring while begging the claim all in one post.
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@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
These are the same arguments people used when gambit was clearly over powered and bishop was clearly over powered to try and convince the devs that there's no problem here and not to take away their clearly broken toy.Those arguments didn't work with gambit or bishop and the pending chasm nerf makes it clear it's not working in this case either.
I don't use Chasm....ever. I refuse. So much for you shiny toy theory.
Yes, because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you. You are the only one that matters.
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@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
These are the same arguments people used when gambit was clearly over powered and bishop was clearly over powered to try and convince the devs that there's no problem here and not to take away their clearly broken toy.Those arguments didn't work with gambit or bishop and the pending chasm nerf makes it clear it's not working in this case either.
I don't use Chasm....ever. I refuse. So much for you shiny toy theory.
Yes, because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you. You are the only one that matters.
Ooooh... another one who like to put words in other people mouths. You guys run in packs now? Lol
Unlike you, I can only speak of myself and my own experiences. I don't claim to know why people for different opinions than my own. Though you seem to have some insight onto why everyone forms the opinions they do.
If you want to make a conspiracy out of my experiences into me representing the vast majority of any group, then polish up your tinfoil hat and roll with that.
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Everyone really should take a step back, breathe, and realise you are squabbling on the internet with strangers about something that is completely irrelevant to the world...
alternatively, can someone hand me some popcorn? Got to get my kicks from somewhere
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@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
These are the same arguments people used when gambit was clearly over powered and bishop was clearly over powered to try and convince the devs that there's no problem here and not to take away their clearly broken toy.Those arguments didn't work with gambit or bishop and the pending chasm nerf makes it clear it's not working in this case either.
I don't use Chasm....ever. I refuse. So much for you shiny toy theory.
Yes, because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you. You are the only one that matters.
So, thinking about it, the only logically consistent argument I can assemble from this random hodgepodge of seemingly-contradictory nonsense works something like this:
"Chasm is easy to beat, but ONLY by players (like me!) who are extremely skilled/intelligent/special in some way. For the rest of the game...well, unfortunately they're too unskilled or dumb to figure it out, and that's why Chasm is still everywhere."
This argument works great, until you consider that the rest of us ALSO have zero problems repeatedly, quickly winning fights against Chasm (there is no skill in this game, you're not special or gifted, and you haven't cracked some impossible code) we're just bored of having to fight him every match, in every event.
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@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
These are the same arguments people used when gambit was clearly over powered and bishop was clearly over powered to try and convince the devs that there's no problem here and not to take away their clearly broken toy.Those arguments didn't work with gambit or bishop and the pending chasm nerf makes it clear it's not working in this case either.
I don't use Chasm....ever. I refuse. So much for you shiny toy theory.
Yes, because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you. You are the only one that matters.
Ooooh... another one who like to put words in other people mouths. You guys run in packs now? Lol
Unlike you, I can only speak of myself and my own experiences. I don't claim to know why people for different opinions than my own. Though you seem to have some insight onto why everyone forms the opinions they do.
If you want to make a conspiracy out of my experiences into me representing the vast majority of any group, then polish up your tinfoil hat and roll with that.
Responding to only the words you used is putting words in your mouth? Okay?
You said, I don't use Chasm therfore that destroys your theory that people against the gambit nerf, bishop nerf, and chasm nerf rely on them. You claimed that your singular experience negates my claim so obviously that implies that you think you represent the majority. How else would you experience change my theory?
No words were put in your mouth, those were yours.
If you can only speak for your own experiences, and weren't implying that you represent the majority then how does your experience equal "so much for your shiny toy theory"?
Again, your words
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@MrDupaTM said:
It’s so simple.And because it’s so simple, it’s rage inducing why wouldn’t the developers just do it.
short answer would be, when the medicine does more harm than the poison, you refrain from using it.
@Captain_Trips88 said:
Everyone really should take a step back, breathe, and realise you are squabbling on the internet with strangers about something that is completely irrelevant to the world...alternatively, can someone hand me some popcorn? Got to get my kicks from somewhere
looking for popcorns too, but jumping into argument is too tempting.
Concerning Chasm, as a player playing at lvl 300, I know I cannot attack chasm teams in pcp (who are most of the time champ+ and sometime dual 550). It is never easy to fight lvl 300 vs 450, but with boost and some cheese its manageable (for those nice 70+ retal points). With chasm it is very dangerous, as any cascade during T1 can be an unavoidable loss.
With 70+ 5* out already, when a 5* requires a "counter" for meta balance, he should take a nerfhammer hit first before thinking about counters. On the long term it is much healthier than creating problems down the line with 6 or 7 characters that are ill designed as "counter". I'm pretty sure at one point Kang passive will be a balance problem.
P.S. : before anyone says we are not supposed to fight down by 100+ level, that is how matchmaking plays right now. I would love for it to change, but I doubt it happens anytime soon as the game is designed for frustration in pvp.
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@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
These are the same arguments people used when gambit was clearly over powered and bishop was clearly over powered to try and convince the devs that there's no problem here and not to take away their clearly broken toy.Those arguments didn't work with gambit or bishop and the pending chasm nerf makes it clear it's not working in this case either.
I don't use Chasm....ever. I refuse. So much for you shiny toy theory.
Yes, because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you. You are the only one that matters.
Ooooh... another one who like to put words in other people mouths. You guys run in packs now? Lol
Unlike you, I can only speak of myself and my own experiences. I don't claim to know why people for different opinions than my own. Though you seem to have some insight onto why everyone forms the opinions they do.
If you want to make a conspiracy out of my experiences into me representing the vast majority of any group, then polish up your tinfoil hat and roll with that.
Responding to only the words you used is putting words in your mouth? Okay?
You said, I don't use Chasm therfore that destroys your theory that people against the gambit nerf, bishop nerf, and chasm nerf rely on them. You claimed that your singular experience negates my claim so obviously that implies that you think you represent the majority. How else would you experience change my theory?
No words were put in your mouth, those were yours.
If you can only speak for your own experiences, and weren't implying that you represent the majority then how does your experience equal "so much for your shiny toy theory"?
Again, your words
"because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. "
Not my words. You attributing an opinion to me that isn't mine.
"You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you"
Ditto here.... still not my words. You playing some puppet game where you want your words to come out of my mouth.
"You are the only one that matters."
No my words either but I don't disagree with this opinion.
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I see way more thor teams than chasm teams nowadays.
Take this week for example:
No boosted characters and there is a wall of shang chi/thor.
Pvp is ok right now.
I honestly hope they keep the boosted characters out of it.
Yes i still see chasm/ihulk teams but they arent everywhere and more importantly are quite easy to beat.
Kang has pretty much put the final nail in chasms coffin.
Hes just a very good support character now0 -
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
These are the same arguments people used when gambit was clearly over powered and bishop was clearly over powered to try and convince the devs that there's no problem here and not to take away their clearly broken toy.Those arguments didn't work with gambit or bishop and the pending chasm nerf makes it clear it's not working in this case either.
I don't use Chasm....ever. I refuse. So much for you shiny toy theory.
Yes, because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you. You are the only one that matters.
Ooooh... another one who like to put words in other people mouths. You guys run in packs now? Lol
Unlike you, I can only speak of myself and my own experiences. I don't claim to know why people for different opinions than my own. Though you seem to have some insight onto why everyone forms the opinions they do.
If you want to make a conspiracy out of my experiences into me representing the vast majority of any group, then polish up your tinfoil hat and roll with that.
Responding to only the words you used is putting words in your mouth? Okay?
You said, I don't use Chasm therfore that destroys your theory that people against the gambit nerf, bishop nerf, and chasm nerf rely on them. You claimed that your singular experience negates my claim so obviously that implies that you think you represent the majority. How else would you experience change my theory?
No words were put in your mouth, those were yours.
If you can only speak for your own experiences, and weren't implying that you represent the majority then how does your experience equal "so much for your shiny toy theory"?
Again, your words
"because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. "
Not my words. You attributing an opinion to me that isn't mine.
"You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you"
Ditto here.... still not my words. You playing some puppet game where you want your words to come out of my mouth.
"You are the only one that matters."
No my words either but I don't disagree with this opinion.
So the only actual opinion you have is that everyone else is misstating your real opinion (an opinion that is a secret, which you refuse to clarify in any way)?
Cool
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@entrailbucket said:
This argument works great, until you consider that the rest of us ALSO have zero problems repeatedly, quickly winning fights against Chasm (there is no skill in this game, you're not special or gifted, and you haven't cracked some impossible code) we're just bored of having to fight him every match, in every event.Wait... so "the rest of us" have zero problems repeatedly and quickly winning fights against Chasm. Then going back to the the original topic, doesn't that mean the developed counters ARE successful?
It seems to me your problem is not that he's too hard to beat and the counters are ineffective, but that you just don't like the teams other people choose to play with. You like to tell others how to play.
Control issues perhaps?
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@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
@killahKlown said:
@BriMan2222 said:
These are the same arguments people used when gambit was clearly over powered and bishop was clearly over powered to try and convince the devs that there's no problem here and not to take away their clearly broken toy.Those arguments didn't work with gambit or bishop and the pending chasm nerf makes it clear it's not working in this case either.
I don't use Chasm....ever. I refuse. So much for you shiny toy theory.
Yes, because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you. You are the only one that matters.
Ooooh... another one who like to put words in other people mouths. You guys run in packs now? Lol
Unlike you, I can only speak of myself and my own experiences. I don't claim to know why people for different opinions than my own. Though you seem to have some insight onto why everyone forms the opinions they do.
If you want to make a conspiracy out of my experiences into me representing the vast majority of any group, then polish up your tinfoil hat and roll with that.
Responding to only the words you used is putting words in your mouth? Okay?
You said, I don't use Chasm therfore that destroys your theory that people against the gambit nerf, bishop nerf, and chasm nerf rely on them. You claimed that your singular experience negates my claim so obviously that implies that you think you represent the majority. How else would you experience change my theory?
No words were put in your mouth, those were yours.
If you can only speak for your own experiences, and weren't implying that you represent the majority then how does your experience equal "so much for your shiny toy theory"?
Again, your words
"because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. "
Not my words. You attributing an opinion to me that isn't mine.
"You couldn't possibly be one of the few exceptions. Chasm is everywhere because so many people refuse to use him like you"
Ditto here.... still not my words. You playing some puppet game where you want your words to come out of my mouth.
"You are the only one that matters."
No my words either but I don't disagree with this opinion.
All those words to say nothing and dodge the question. Again, if you weren't implying that you think you represent the majority then what exactly were you saying? Your statement seemed to imply that you think "because you don't fit this that also means that the vast majority don't. "
Other wise how would your experience negate my claim as you claimed it does????
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@killahKlown said:
@entrailbucket said:
This argument works great, until you consider that the rest of us ALSO have zero problems repeatedly, quickly winning fights against Chasm (there is no skill in this game, you're not special or gifted, and you haven't cracked some impossible code) we're just bored of having to fight him every match, in every event.Wait... so "the rest of us" have zero problems repeatedly and quickly winning fights against Chasm. Then going back to the the original topic, doesn't that mean the developed counters ARE successful?
It seems to me your problem is not that he's too hard to beat and the counters are ineffective, but that you just don't like the teams other people choose to play with. You like to tell others how to play.
Control issues perhaps?
I didn't say that, stop putting words in my mouth.
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munch munch
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My win rate against chasm ihulk is easily 85-90% of the time. The next best defensive team is beatable 99% maybe even 100% of the time. If that's the case then I would use chasm ihulk all the time, just for the sometime wipes.
Maybe one solution would to to create multiple strong defensive teams that can win 10-15% of the time on defence.
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@Codex said:
Maybe one solution would to to create multiple strong defensive teams that can win 10-15% of the time on defence.
I'm not certain that would stop all the complaints; it seems that for some even taking damage from a defending team is unacceptable, so I think this would result in a toys-in-pram count of zero.
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@Codex said:
My win rate against chasm ihulk is easily 85-90% of the time. The next best defensive team is beatable 99% maybe even 100% of the time. If that's the case then I would use chasm ihulk all the time, just for the sometime wipes.Maybe one solution would to to create multiple strong defensive teams that can win 10-15% of the time on defence.
What team are you using for that? Is it a combination of boosted characters that rotates or is there a specific counter team you're running?
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Tell that to the 14 Chasm teams I just whooped climbing to 1200. No losses.
Yep. You’re so close yet…
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@MrDupaTM said:
I was thinking about all the characters with convoluted powers that were supposed to stop Chasm, they all failed.I'm not sure all of them failed, but I guess we'd need to define what success looks like. Chasm being beatable? Chasm being used no more often than the average character? Chasm becoming a liability and used seldom if ever?
Who punishes Chasm?
Jeffrey. Chasm spams two types of special tiles which are used to increase match damage.
Also Gwenom whose red deals increased damage and black does longer stun as web tiles accumulate.
And Hit Monkey via the Villain affiliation.
But I take the general point that the best counters are ones like SWitch or Electro that turn strengths into weaknesses.
0
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