Fury & Talos changes are in

2

Comments

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    @Punisher5784 said:

    Thinking?

    Hmm.. let me see if I have 26AP.. no.. okay well what colors do I have 5AP.. oh nothing good.. why am I using him? Well I finished the match after all that "thinking".. what!! I lost 200pts in PvP during that time? Well at least I had fun.. I guess

    You don't use Fury at the moment in PvP, do you?

    Anyway, regardless of whether you've got your knickers in a twist over a change that has zero impact on you, all you are saying there is that you have a different measure of fun.

    If you don't enjoy the game when thinking about how you are playing it causes you to lose points in PvP then agreed, any change that doesn't increase the speed you can win PvP matches is pointless at best, but it also means that any rebalancing that doesn't affect the very best team is neither here nor there, surely.

  • pepitedechocolat
    pepitedechocolat Posts: 233 Tile Toppler

    @DrClever said:

    @Punisher5784 said:

    Thinking?

    Hmm.. let me see if I have 26AP.. no.. okay well what colors do I have 5AP.. oh nothing good.. why am I using him? Well I finished the match after all that "thinking".. what!! I lost 200pts in PvP during that time? Well at least I had fun.. I guess

    You don't use Fury at the moment in PvP, do you?

    Anyway, regardless of whether you've got your knickers in a twist over a change that has zero impact on you, all you are saying there is that you have a different measure of fun.

    If you don't enjoy the game when thinking about how you are playing it causes you to lose points in PvP then agreed, any change that doesn't increase the speed you can win PvP matches is pointless at best, but it also means that any rebalancing that doesn't affect the very best team is neither here nor there, surely.

    and that is why chasm, mthor, ihulk need to be buried by nerfhammer, please!

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Wait, why do we need to nerf Jane all of a sudden?
    She's fine.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Are they nerfing characters because of future supports in pvp? Imho that sounds quite like scheduling "the master plan" and I think it's proven there is none.
    Fury is nerfed because now he doez the same before the buff that was his yellow at 12 AP.
    What I think: fury and beast are nerfed because they don't know/ don't want to know a thing.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,607 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    Wait, why do we need to nerf Jane all of a sudden?
    She's fine.

    At the moment she's overshadowed by the complete disaster that is Chasm, but once he's gone she's going to be part of the new "wall," and she is most definitely NOT fine.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    Wait, why do we need to nerf Jane all of a sudden?
    She's fine.

    At the moment she's overshadowed by the complete disaster that is Chasm, but once he's gone she's going to be part of the new "wall," and she is most definitely NOT fine.

    So we're going to nerf ColWanda next?

  • WilliamK1983
    WilliamK1983 Posts: 885 Critical Contributor

    @Bowgentle said:
    Wait, why do we need to nerf Jane all of a sudden?
    She's fine.

    Of course she's fine. Overreaction because she's boosted. Those complaining will have zero problem running her in pve and reaping those benefits thou.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,607 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    Wait, why do we need to nerf Jane all of a sudden?
    She's fine.

    At the moment she's overshadowed by the complete disaster that is Chasm, but once he's gone she's going to be part of the new "wall," and she is most definitely NOT fine.

    So we're going to nerf ColWanda next?

    If they're the only team most people ever use, and they're better than boosted characters that are 100+ levels higher, then yes. That's how balance works...

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    That's not how MPQ has worked, ever.
    Do you trust BCS to have any idea about balance, after a year of their own characters?

  • 658_2
    658_2 Posts: 234 Tile Toppler

    I don’t want Thor to get nerfed. But if they stopped her hitting repeaters and countdowns I really couldn’t complain too much. Talk about crowding out design space

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,607 Chairperson of the Boards

    Well, first -- yes, MPQ did work like that, before Demiurge gave up on balance completely, after Gambit.

    The game was much better then, and games that try to produce a roughly balanced metagame are better than ones where everyone just uses the same character for everything forever.

    I do think Thor is potentially problematic, because she completely neuters any character who has to put anything on the board. It's not as bad as Chasm, who completely neuters anyone that needs to do...anything...but I could see her becoming a problem, especially since all the hoarders 550d her too.

    We can't know yet, though, because Chasm is so dominant that nobody knows what a post-Chasm meta will look like.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,410 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think the biggest difference between Chasm and MT is that I don't skip a team in PVP that has MT on it. She is not so overpowered that I worry about being able to defeat her. She is definitely beatable in a reasonable amount of time, unlike Chasm.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,607 Chairperson of the Boards

    The point is that they should be open to changing anybody who's either massively overused or massively underused.

    I have no idea what the post-Chasm meta will look like (although I have some suspicions) but if it's 99% the same team, then they should absolutely do something about it.

  • Mavericat
    Mavericat Posts: 17 Just Dropped In

    Could the fury changes be a precursor to a 5 star fury and they needed to nerf 4 star to make the 5 star version shine?

  • helix72
    helix72 Posts: 995 Critical Contributor

    I think it’s more likely a precursor to supports in PvP. A turn 1 nuke with multiple crits and a stun would be pretty OP.

  • pepitedechocolat
    pepitedechocolat Posts: 233 Tile Toppler

    @Bowgentle said:
    Wait, why do we need to nerf Jane all of a sudden?
    She's fine.

    Ok lets unwrap my view on the topic:

    • Chasm made some player believe that firing powers is obsolete, as they will never get ap to fire them, which is part of why he needs to be nerfed to death (alongside the AOE stun countering any board setup).
    • Mthor is making some ppl believe that putting anything on board is obsolete unless 1. it is fortified and 2 it unload its value in 2 turns. This is super constraining as it makes entire part of the cast obsolete.
    • IHulk makes some ppl believe any active nuke is obsolete, as he has a passive that do board shake and AOE damage for free (almost) every turn. Why use JJ for 11ap for 20k damage where I get board shake + 15k damage passively every turn .
    • Both ihulk and mthor make sure to convince people that board shake should be free and generate AP.

    Their are other gameplay dissonances created by these 3, I listed the main points.

    Also with the release other revivers and moony he becomes a problem to deal with, as we have now several chars that are all "best/only handled last" (Ihulk/moony combo is a brain fart by game designers)

    Furthermore, if devs put these 3 in line, Imo Kang will need some fix too (he makes health and defense obsolete),

    That would probably lead to a slower meta (though coloswitch and SC could still anything) and hopefully a more diverse one. (also there is close to zero chances for these nerfs to happen)

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,607 Chairperson of the Boards

    I follow your logic, I'm just not a fan of doing everything at once/preemptively. I very strongly suspect that fixing Chasm will expose other issues that he's been hiding, but hopefully the devs will deal with those other issues as they become apparent.

  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards

    They need to nerf Abigail already! She's too easy to beat and I hate it

  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2023

    Can anyone tell me why Fury got a nerf? His yellow went from expensive-but-kinda-decent to straight up bad.

    His yellow was an ability that cost 10 AP and did a bunch of stuff, including 3 crits, a 2-turn stun, and low damage. Expensive, but a decent option if you had no other yellow on the team. The crits and the stun were the useful parts of it; the crits in particular made the ability worthwhile. Not just in 5* land, in 4* land too-- the direct damage on it was already too low for 4* land and the stun is okay as a side effect but 10 AP is way overpriced for a measly little 2-turn stun. The ability suffered from old 3* Doc Ock's green effect: does wayy too much, and none of it is strong enough to be worth using for its AP price. Except the crit tiles. The ability lived on the crit tiles.

    Now... his yellow only does 1 crit tile(!!) anymore (WHY?!), does 1k less direct damage (who cares, let's be real: all the damage in this ability essentially came from the crit tiles. But still, why?) and if you want the full effect, it now costs 26 AP to get less of an effect you got for the 10 AP beforehand.
    (Sure, it's not gonna use up the non-yellow colored AP, so once you have the AP it's easier/cheaper to refire. But you still need to collect them in the first place to get the effect and then not use those colored AP for anything else.)

    Let me repeat this: You now have to collect 16 AP for 1 crit and a 2-turn stun. Instead of 10 AP for 3 crits and a 2-turn stun.

    And since the crit tiles were the only actually worthwhile part of the ability, there's no reason why you'd ever run him anything but 3/5/5 now.

    I am really, really confused by this change.

    Like, the design of the ability isn't actually bad-- Fury calling the Avengers and you getting effects depending on colors determining which Avenger is available is a nice idea. But if you need additional AP for additional effects, you can't make each effect so bad and low. The effects were so low for each because you got all of them in one 10 AP package. If you need to pay extra, each effect should be more worthwhile. Not be even worse than before!

    @DrClever said:
    At a guess, assuming any real thought went into it at all, I'd say that Fury was changed to be less useful for 5* players and a bit quicker to get started in his own tier.

    I'd be really interested to hear from any 4* players who have been using him a lot up to now.

    I used Fury regularly in 4* land when boosted. This does not benefit him in 4* land, either. If anything it makes him slower, not quicker, and none of the effects are worthwhile in 4* land now so why bother at all with it?

    Talos at least looks much better now. Then again, it would have been very difficult for Talos to end up worse than he was, lol.

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