Gambit unannounced buff

2

Comments

  • illusionist_KA
    illusionist_KA Posts: 137 Tile Toppler

    @entrailbucket said:
    You can probably do some really gross stuff with him and Thor, even though he locks out her red power. Also, his repeater is fortified now so she won't blow it up immediately. If black bolt gets a buff he'll probably be good too. And Hawkeye/Gambit was great before and is probably killer now.

    I still don't think he's strong enough to use unboosted, but maybe he's close? It'd depend very much on level.

    Gambit rework didn't improve a whole lot. His red ap cost went up from 7 to 8. His black power still locks out other characters red and purple. His red damage was the only thing worth mentioning. The rest us garbage. I used gambit (493) and lady thor (452) it was ok. Nothing to rave about. She destroyed his black 60% of the time, she destroyed his purple countdowns, 100% of the time. Old thor, worked very well. But his black repeater needs to be one turn like before. His ap gains are very slow. I had 50% win rate against chasm teams. Mainly due to lady thor destroying the tiles I needed.

    Gambit is still a hot mess, if they go back to 1.0 version, then he will back to top tier and be able to compete with current characters.

    God mode is pure garbage and needs to go away like a supercharger on a Toyota prius. If a character is not good by itself, and you rely on God boost to make it better, then it is a **** character.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,992 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah, I'd be in favor of them reworking every single character so they're all usable unboosted, but they don't seem to want to (or can't) do that.

    The worst situation is the one we had before boosts, where a few characters completely outclassed everyone else at all times.

    The best situation would be one where all 5* are roughly the same power level, everyone can beat everyone, and no boosts are required to create a diverse metagame.

    Where we're headed now is a middle point where the best guys rotate every week. It's not perfect, but it's better than before and I'll take it. Before this change, Gambit was unusable even when he was boosted. At least now he'll be playable for a week, and that's better than nothing.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,661 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    As pointed out - they unambiguously took away his AP gain from his red, it no longer "destroys" the charged tiles, it converts them to basic tiles. This is also going to take away some board shake. In return, though, it does a lot more damage (potentially a lot of damage, particularly if he's boosted,) and he now has a passive that creates red or purple charged tiles. It's also the same price as it was post-nerf, the pre-nerf was 7 ap I think.

    Honestly, at this point his "blocks other red and purple" is the only thing really limiting his usefulness. It takes away so many of his good partners, and really makes you think of who to pair him with. Storm and BB are pretty obvious good ones, but Thor is iffy (her red punches so hard and feeds the charged tiles, rather than take them away,) Riri is no (her red is why you bring her, her green mostly just supports it,) and Shang-Chi is a tinykitty no.

    He's definitely a lot better than he was, he may make it to "use when boosted," particularly if Storm or BB are also boosted.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,992 Chairperson of the Boards

    The lockout hurts his combo potential, but he can slot right into any team that doesn't care at all about red or purple, or any team that doesn't really care about AP at all. I'm not sure who's on that list though.

    I do think Gambit can safely lose the lockout at this point. His AP generation isn't even that good anymore when you compare it to hyper-efficient AP generators like Beta Ray Bill, Valkyrie, or Melinda May, and those guys don't lock anyone out.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,656 Chairperson of the Boards

    He is clearly better, but still not good enough.
    The lockout causes a lot of problem and there are a number of red or purple users I would rather take.

    If he did not have the lockout I would consider running him alongside SheThor or Apoc. But because he locks out colors I really never want to take him. His powers just don't hit hard enough to consider it.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    At 5, fortified 2 turn repeater providing 3 red and purple.
    If they changed it to 2 red and purple without fortify, they could safely turn off the lockout and he would be great.

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,063 Chairperson of the Boards

    It’s funny how you guys keep talking about how gambit “isn’t strong enough” and “I’d rather use FosThor because she’s stronger”……

    When my freshly champed lvl 451 gambit does 15505 + 2416 for each charged tile

    And my FosThor at lvl 478 does 10367 + 1770 for each charged tile on the board + 884 for each charged tile destroyed.

    Gambit’s red is pretty clearly stronger. ESPECIALLY early in the game.

  • Pantera236
    Pantera236 Posts: 528 Critical Contributor

    @Tiger_Wong said:
    It’s funny how you guys keep talking about how gambit “isn’t strong enough” and “I’d rather use FosThor because she’s stronger”……

    When my freshly champed lvl 451 gambit does 15505 + 2416 for each charged tile

    And my FosThor at lvl 478 does 10367 + 1770 for each charged tile on the board + 884 for each charged tile destroyed.

    Gambit’s red is pretty clearly stronger. ESPECIALLY early in the game.

    His does cap out at 10 charged tiles whereas Jane's has no cap but I do see your point, and you're not wrong.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,661 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bad said:
    At 5, fortified 2 turn repeater providing 3 red and purple.
    If they changed it to 2 red and purple without fortify, they could safely turn off the lockout and he would be great.

    As an alternative you can do something interesting like "If an ally uses a red or purple power, Gambit inflicts XXX damage to them." It'd be neat if they did something outside the box for it.

    @Tiger_Wong said:
    It’s funny how you guys keep talking about how gambit “isn’t strong enough” and “I’d rather use FosThor because she’s stronger”……

    When my freshly champed lvl 451 gambit does 15505 + 2416 for each charged tile

    And my FosThor at lvl 478 does 10367 + 1770 for each charged tile on the board + 884 for each charged tile destroyed.

    Gambit’s red is pretty clearly stronger. ESPECIALLY early in the game.

    Well, it hits harder, but MThor's red builds charged tiles, while Gambit's resets the charged tiles to three - so comparing the red to Thor's yellow is a better comparison. Also, Thor's red takes the destroyed charged tiles into account, which seriously builds up over the game with Thor, particularly if you use her yellow. Thor's yellow (compared to Gambit's red,) probably does less damage unless you have a lot of charged tiles, but it's separate damage instances (which really ramps up with Okoye or SW for example,) and then causes board-shake twice, which is really why you bring Thor. You bring her for all the Board shake, which Gambit doesn't do anymore.

    As I said, he's not bad, but I don't think he'll see much use for me outside of his boosted week, and we'll see for his boosted week.

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,063 Chairperson of the Boards

    Board shake is a double edged sword. It’s great if you can get a winfinite going (which is REALLY FosThor’s calling card more than power). But as we all know, you can shake the board and get nothing and then the AI gets a long cascade. Using your charged tiles I might add.

    FosThor is better later in the game and later in the mid game. Gambit is stronger early on and in the early mid game. Doesn’t matter if it’s her red or yellow.

    If you wanna say FosThor is a better character well sure, that’s fine. But comparing gambit to a meta character right off the bat is pretty shady and reeks of bias. Especially since you guys OBVIOUSLY haven’t tried him out since the rework.

    Too many people focus on the negative around here. This is a good, solid rework/buff. But you wouldn’t know it from this thread as everyone so far has cut it down and compared gambit to a top tier character. Riri makes charged tiles. Black bolt too. Not a single parallel was between gambit and them.

    Gee…. I wonder why.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,992 Chairperson of the Boards

    A lot of people sold him when he was nerfed, and a lot of other people never had him at all, because when they started he was already bad, and it was optimal to only chase good characters.

    Other players prefer to use one team for everything. In the last event, I saw players bench Iron Man and Banner to run lower-level Chasm or Thor teams. I find this weird, but if it's fun for them we shouldn't judge. It's a game and it should be fun.

    Anyway Gambit is a lot better than he was, and he's going to be really good when he's boosted. The buff isn't perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Expecting them to buff him to the level of a SW or Chasm appears to be unrealistic at this point and just sets you up for disappointment.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I love the rework, but I'll need a boost week to see if he's usable over Hulkasm.
    Not sure where you get the negative vibe from, apart from a few weird posts.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,661 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Tiger_Wong said:
    Board shake is a double edged sword. It’s great if you can get a winfinite going (which is REALLY FosThor’s calling card more than power). But as we all know, you can shake the board and get nothing and then the AI gets a long cascade. Using your charged tiles I might add.

    FosThor is better later in the game and later in the mid game. Gambit is stronger early on and in the early mid game. Doesn’t matter if it’s her red or yellow.

    If you wanna say FosThor is a better character well sure, that’s fine. But comparing gambit to a meta character right off the bat is pretty shady and reeks of bias. Especially since you guys OBVIOUSLY haven’t tried him out since the rework.

    Too many people focus on the negative around here. This is a good, solid rework/buff. But you wouldn’t know it from this thread as everyone so far has cut it down and compared gambit to a top tier character. Riri makes charged tiles. Black bolt too. Not a single parallel was between gambit and them.

    Gee…. I wonder why.

    Regular board shake averages out to more AP for you to use. Honestly, MThor is one of the more versatile characters in the game - she doesn't play well with toons who rely on special tiles, and of course her power colors are pretty common, but she's a good partner for pretty much everyone else. I've been playing her this week since MThor/Hulk doesn't do badly against Chasm and the rest of the boosted list is pretty weak.

    You're absolutely right it's unfair to compare them, considering that MThor is pretty meta (particularly as an answer to Chasm.) On the other hand, they overlap on red and Gambit excludes red, so it's kind of inevitable. I'd say they're not the best partners, for sure, and Riri is a pretty terrible partner for Gambit too, since she only creates charged tiles on her Red.

    I'm sure I'll bring him out when boosted. TBH I kind of liked his red the way it was before - there are very few powers that destroy tiles and give you AP. His big weakness is you had to fire it twice to get any real benefit from it, which they've addressed by having him passively add charged tiles.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,992 Chairperson of the Boards

    Honestly, it is fair to compare Gambit and Thor, and we should compare them.

    They have the same number of stars -- their rarity is the same. If anything Gambit is more rare because he's older. There's nothing in the game that indicates Thor is meant to be better than Gambit, she's not, like, a "5+" or a "5.5."

    Gambit is worse than Thor, and that's fine, because it's inevitable that a game with this many characters will have some that are better than others.

    The problem was never that he was worse than her -- the problem was that he was so much worse than her, that even with a +100 level buff, he was still way worse than her.

    This buff closes the gap significantly, which is good and worthwhile. I personally wish they'd close that gap even further, but I can understand why they didn't and I'm happy that they've gone as far as they did.

  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    The lockout hurts his combo potential, but he can slot right into any team that doesn't care at all about red or purple, or any team that doesn't really care about AP at all. I'm not sure who's on that list though.

    Colossus, Crystal, Gambit
    Chasm, iHulk, Gambit
    Onslaught, Wheelie, Gambit
    Hawkeye, Shuma, Gambit
    And maybe Emm5 (trading on her red passive), Moon Knight, Gambit?
    Fit Yellowjacket in there with somebody or other, perhaps BB when he gets a buff.

    Those all seem interesting to me. I mean, they're all imperfect -- but so is every team.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,661 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    Honestly, it is fair to compare Gambit and Thor, and we should compare them.

    They have the same number of stars -- their rarity is the same. If anything Gambit is more rare because he's older. There's nothing in the game that indicates Thor is meant to be better than Gambit, she's not, like, a "5+" or a "5.5."

    Gambit is worse than Thor, and that's fine, because it's inevitable that a game with this many characters will have some that are better than others.

    The problem was never that he was worse than her -- the problem was that he was so much worse than her, that even with a +100 level buff, he was still way worse than her.

    This buff closes the gap significantly, which is good and worthwhile. I personally wish they'd close that gap even further, but I can understand why they didn't and I'm happy that they've gone as far as they did.

    Reasonable, particularly considering he was the meta, way back.

    I agree with you on that assessment, he is worse than her, but much less worse than he was before.

    I really wish they'd give him some kind of other drawback than locking out red and purple, it's very, very limiting.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,992 Chairperson of the Boards

    @GrimSkald said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Honestly, it is fair to compare Gambit and Thor, and we should compare them.

    They have the same number of stars -- their rarity is the same. If anything Gambit is more rare because he's older. There's nothing in the game that indicates Thor is meant to be better than Gambit, she's not, like, a "5+" or a "5.5."

    Gambit is worse than Thor, and that's fine, because it's inevitable that a game with this many characters will have some that are better than others.

    The problem was never that he was worse than her -- the problem was that he was so much worse than her, that even with a +100 level buff, he was still way worse than her.

    This buff closes the gap significantly, which is good and worthwhile. I personally wish they'd close that gap even further, but I can understand why they didn't and I'm happy that they've gone as far as they did.

    Reasonable, particularly considering he was the meta, way back.

    I agree with you on that assessment, he is worse than her, but much less worse than he was before.

    I really wish they'd give him some kind of other drawback than locking out red and purple, it's very, very limiting.

    Yeah, pre-nerf Gambit was just an insane battery for his time, so the lockout made sense then -- we saw how 3* Gambit/Gwen broke the game before that nerf.

    The problem now is that 5* Gambit is a much worse battery than he was (the weird repeater thing vs straight-up passive free AP), and also since then they've introduced way better batteries than Gambit ever was.

    Personally I think superefficient AP batteries are bad for the metagame, but that MPQ ship, like so many other MPQ ships, has sailed.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,992 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Yepyep said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    The lockout hurts his combo potential, but he can slot right into any team that doesn't care at all about red or purple, or any team that doesn't really care about AP at all. I'm not sure who's on that list though.

    Colossus, Crystal, Gambit
    Chasm, iHulk, Gambit
    Onslaught, Wheelie, Gambit
    Hawkeye, Shuma, Gambit
    And maybe Emm5 (trading on her red passive), Moon Knight, Gambit?
    Fit Yellowjacket in there with somebody or other, perhaps BB when he gets a buff.

    Those all seem interesting to me. I mean, they're all imperfect -- but so is every team.

    Hawkeye/Gambit was actually a gross, totally overpowered combo before this Gambit buff -- people overlook Hawkeye for whatever reason but he may be the most broken AP battery in the game.

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