Retro Rewards for Rescue and Iron Man XLVI

killahKlown

@Bowgentle said:

@dianetics said:

@MegaBee said:
We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest.

I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home.

Also, "this is a Gacha game", please.

**** does that even mean? I never got that one

ThaRoadWarrior

@killahKlown said:

@Bowgentle said:

@dianetics said:

@MegaBee said:
We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest.

I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home.

Also, "this is a Gacha game", please.

**** does that even mean? I never got that one

"A gacha game (Japanese: ガチャ ゲーム, Hepburn: gacha gēmu) is a video game that implements the gacha (toy vending machine) mechanic. Similar to loot boxes, gacha games entice players to spend in-game currency to receive a random in-game item. Some in-game currency generally can be gained through game play, and some by purchasing it from the game publisher using real-world funds." the implication is that you should never be able to outrun the treadmill, and wanting/trying to do so is foolish (i assume).

AlexR

@KGB said:
Well it's not their fault if you are hoarding because that's a choice you make. Incidentally, if you are hoarding then you aren't getting rewards on the current 5* feeder either. So the hoarding argument doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, yes, if you already have 5 in the 1st color then you do indeed need 43 covers to get a reward you can use. That's pretty much an edge case because it's going to be quite rare. (...)

My point is not "they should consider hoarding", my point is "depending on circumstances, it may take you a long time just to get back to where you where." Also, you do get progress on your feeder via 4* shards from lower-end tokens and daily milestones. Just, slow progress.

I don't know about you, but when I reach @5 in a color it tends to be the first one since that's the one you are garantueed to get. And yes, this is not theoretical, I'm looking at a first color@5 very likely swap-candidate I'm currently trying to finish before a swap with the holiday update sets me back 35 4* covers to an unchamped 4* , pfff. And his counterpart is going to miss out on covers in exchange.

Basically, sometimes you'll come out ahead and sometimes you won't depending on what level the 4*s are on your roster.

Not... really, no. If you "profit" from it because one feeder is much higher then the other and will get more after the swap, then you also "lose" from it because the other will receive less. Can't have one without the other: The one that already got their rewards will get a double dosis and the one you didn't get rewards for yet will be pushed out of their shards and miss out.

Whether that bothers you depends on the 5* in question, how well covered they are and how much you care about covering them. I'd like to cover all I can, so missing out on the ones I didn't get stuff for yet and who are unfinished bothers me, while getting more for the ones I already finished is not really something I care about one way or the other.

I think it's pretty clear they plan to rework feeders so they make more logical sense. So being mad about them shifting them around without giving out tons of retro rewards is pointless.

By that logic, no feedback has any point ever.

Maybe they care, maybe they don't. If they care, better they're aware now than when they do it en-mass in a month during holidays. And if they don't care, then surely me voicing my irritation will not bother them.

BriMan2222

@killahKlown said:

@Bowgentle said:

@dianetics said:

@MegaBee said:
We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest.

I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home.

Also, "this is a Gacha game", please.

**** does that even mean? I never got that one

It's basically just another term for freemium games. Mobile games that are free to play but encourage you to spend real money to speed up your progression and/or to buy loot boxes.

Punter1

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@killahKlown said:

@Bowgentle said:

@dianetics said:

@MegaBee said:
We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest.

I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home.

Also, "this is a Gacha game", please.

**** does that even mean? I never got that one

"A gacha game (Japanese: ガチャ ゲーム, Hepburn: gacha gēmu) is a video game that implements the gacha (toy vending machine) mechanic. Similar to loot boxes, gacha games entice players to spend in-game currency to receive a random in-game item. Some in-game currency generally can be gained through game play, and some by purchasing it from the game publisher using real-world funds." the implication is that you should never be able to outrun the treadmill, and wanting/trying to do so is foolish (i assume).

Ahh thanks for clearing that up - I had always assumed it was some form of "Gat-cha" like "got you!" The game "got you" hooked with the freemium model.

KGB

@Timemachinego said:

@KGB said:

I think it's pretty clear they plan to rework feeders so they make more logical sense. So being mad about them shifting them around without giving out tons of retro rewards is pointless.

KGB

Oh yes, because making a reasonable argument against the current course of action hasn't changed ANYTHING lately! That's totally not how we got retroactive Arcade rewards from MODOK, nosiree!

Huh? Modok was a brand new feeder so of course they granted retro rewards. They are doing the retro rewards with 4* Riri since she is also a new feeder.

What they aren't doing is granting retro rewards for swapping who Hulkbuster and War Machine feed.

KGB

KGB

@AlexR said:

Whether that bothers you depends on the 5* in question, how well covered they are and how much you care about covering them. I'd like to cover all I can, so missing out on the ones I didn't get stuff for yet and who are unfinished bothers me, while getting more for the ones I already finished is not really something I care about one way or the other.

I think it's pretty clear they plan to rework feeders so they make more logical sense. So being mad about them shifting them around without giving out tons of retro rewards is pointless.

By that logic, no feedback has any point ever.

Maybe they care, maybe they don't. If they care, better they're aware now than when they do it en-mass in a month during holidays. And if they don't care, then surely me voicing my irritation will not bother them.

I'm trying to do the exact same thing as you, cover them all. Whether or not it takes an extra couple of months makes zero difference to me because none of what I'm trying to cover is meta, it's just older characters who I'm just covering to cover.

For newer players trying to cover Meta and having the feeder swapped it will obviously be annoying having to change shard targets. But often those are the players who are pushing exclusively on the feeder for the meta so they are very likely to benefit from the swap since the new feeder will be lower level and they won't have to roster a dupe at 370 to finish.

In an ideal world, existing 4 champs would keep their feeder path and only newly champed ones would get the new path. That way no one would be affected at all. But that would be a bunch of additional coding on their part to track the existing 4 vs new 4* champ feeder rewards so I can see why they wouldn't want to do that.

KGB

Timemachinego

@KGB said:

@Timemachinego said:

Oh yes, because making a reasonable argument against the current course of action hasn't changed ANYTHING lately! That's totally not how we got retroactive Arcade rewards from MODOK, nosiree!

Huh? Modok was a brand new feeder so of course they granted retro rewards. They are doing the retro rewards with 4* Riri since she is also a new feeder.

What they aren't doing is granting retro rewards for swapping who Hulkbuster and War Machine feed.

KGB

I suppose I should have explained, that wasn't the plan originally. It took a lot of people piling on the arguments for doing so over on Discord.

ThaRoadWarrior

Riri shards went out, looks like the retro arguments fell on deaf ears this time.

But also: thank you for those shards we did get, always appreciated.

DyingLegend

Still not a fan of not granting retro rewards for the classic character swap for the main reason they are difficult enough to cover as it stands.

ZeiramMR

raises hand Another person who won't champion one of these 5-stars from feeders due to the swap. 5-star Iron Man is 5/3/2, Rescue was already championed, and my Hulkbuster is at level 348 and War Machine is level 315. That's not from chasing of any particular champion, just how it fell with random covers and the full 2->3->4 feeder chain on Hulkbuster. And with the red cover being in the lead, that would mean getting my next Hulkbuster to 43 covers (or allocating shard favoriting, or getting lucky with a Classic Legendary / Release Store).

I'm not upset and I'm okay with the 1:1 swap in general; just giving another example of someone who was effected. But it is something for Broken Circle to keep in mind with future feeder updates.

ZeiramMR

That said, absent a comment from D3/Broken Circle about this situation, in the next month players might want to look over their Drax and Star-Lord progress if your 5-star Star Lord isn't championed.

Bowgentle

I don't care too much either way.
My dupe Hulkbuster is 297, my dupe War Machine is 94 with 4 saved covers.
My Iron Man is champed, my Rescue at 9 covers and 350 shards.
Sure, I'd have liked to finish Rescue without spending 370K ISO, but... it's Rescue.
She can wait.

Would I have loved to get 7 Covers from Hulkbuster and 6 from War Machine?
Sure.
But it's fine, really.

rainkingucd

@ZeiramMR said:
That said, absent a comment from D3/Broken Circle about this situation, in the next month players might want to look over their Drax and Star-Lord progress if your 5-star Star Lord isn't championed.

Agreed, it seems like the updates are going to be self fed. Of the 4* not feeding their own variants, there are not a lot of options for straight swaps like Hulkbuster / War Machine. Yes, Star-Lord will likely feed himself, but as he's not a feeder yet, BCS may not consider it a straight swap like this was, and hopefully offer retro rewards (i.e. Star Lord doesn't feed anyone now)

Here is a list of the 5* and their current feeders (left of the /) that could get updated to their own variants. A lot of them would need to be a bigger shuffle, a la Emma / Kitty / Jean / Yellowjacket / Wasp, so hopefully that means retro rewards would be on the table similar to that update.

Star-Lord & Drax / Star-Lord
Thanos & Gamora / Thanos
Loki & MEHulk / Alligator Loki
Heimdall & Alligator Loki / someone else
Doctor Octopus & Carnage / Doc Ock
Carnage & Scorpion / Carnage
Kingpin & Miles / Kingpin
Daredevil & Kingpin / someone else
Storm & Thor Goddess / someone else
Cyclops & Echo / Cyclops
Deadpool & GlideySpidey / Deadpool

Maybe Hawkeye & Ronin/Kate Bishop too, though hard to say

ZeiramMR

@rainkingucd said:

@ZeiramMR said:
That said, absent a comment from D3/Broken Circle about this situation, in the next month players might want to look over their Drax and Star-Lord progress if your 5-star Star Lord isn't championed.

Agreed, it seems like the updates are going to be self fed. Of the 4* not feeding their own variants, there are not a lot of options for straight swaps like Hulkbuster / War Machine. Yes, Star-Lord will likely feed himself, but as he's not a feeder yet, BCS may not consider it a straight swap like this was, and hopefully offer retro rewards (i.e. Star Lord doesn't feed anyone now)

Here is a list of the 5* and their current feeders (left of the /) that could get updated to their own variants. A lot of them would need to be a bigger shuffle, a la Emma / Kitty / Jean / Yellowjacket / Wasp, so hopefully that means retro rewards would be on the table similar to that update.

Star-Lord & Drax / Star-Lord
Thanos & Gamora / Thanos
Loki & MEHulk / Alligator Loki
Heimdall & Alligator Loki / someone else
Doctor Octopus & Carnage / Doc Ock
Carnage & Scorpion / Carnage
Kingpin & Miles / Kingpin
Daredevil & Kingpin / someone else
Storm & Thor Goddess / someone else
Cyclops & Echo / Cyclops
Deadpool & GlideySpidey / Deadpool

Maybe Hawkeye & Ronin/Kate Bishop too, though hard to say

Oh, I forgot about Thanos/Gamora being another possible change as a tie-in to the upcoming GotG Holiday Special.

MoosePrime

The retro rewards are to cover the increase of value of the champion rewards changing from a Latest Legendary token with a 15% chance of a 5* cover to a guaranteed 5* cover (or the shards equivalent).

Therefore, the swap of two 4* characters who already gave out the 5* cover and shards don't need retro rewards, since there's no change of rewards value, solely looking at the tier level of the rewards.

Bad

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

"A gacha game (Japanese: ガチャ ゲーム, Hepburn: gacha gēmu) is a video game that implements the gacha (toy vending machine) mechanic. Similar to loot boxes, gacha games entice players to spend in-game currency to receive a random in-game item. Some in-game currency generally can be gained through game play, and some by purchasing it from the game publisher using real-world funds." the implication is that you should never be able to outrun the treadmill, and wanting/trying to do so is foolish (i assume).

Luckily, I had some student paying atention.
The word "gacha-pon" comes from the onomatopeie of the sound of the valve turning and the sound of the ball landing.
No, the implication is that we are like the childens who are hooked on to these machines( traitorously placed in the most unavoidable spots) and we want the most important toy who is the coolest character that the machine offers.
The satisfaction when pulling the character wanted in gacha games is several times bigger than what the item itself it's.
And that is the worldwide succes of those games copying the japanese toys machines.
There are freemium games which offer items in real money exchange and there are the gacha games offering items through rng invocations: the balls containing the toy.

ThaRoadWarrior

It’s the slot machine effect, just re-contextualized. All about triggering that dopamine hit.

Bad

And the burning wish to own them.
Because these games, as the most sophisticated toys machines, show the available characters, in some cases the big available amount of "shards" on a lucky jackpot for that character.
And that knowledge is actually T.N.T for the brain.

dramatist

My War Machine is 352 and my Hulkbuster is 353. My outrage level is mild.