I understand the reasoning of "it's just a simple swap" but kind of have to agree with the people that feel like they're getting locked out of rewards if they had already gone high on one character. If nothing else it speeds up the rate that one might have to re-roster a 4 if going after a specific 5 (and in said scenario neither would get to be maxed any time soon).
I'd rethink these "simple swaps" in the future unless we really are moving fully (as in quickly) into a double-fed situation for all 5s; that would take most of the sting out of swaps like these.
A possible solution to the simple swap would have been to put all the 5s involved into the store for Riri 3.0. This way players would have the opportunity to pull for the classic 5s that they may feel like they are missing out on due to the reward swap. It would also give Dr Strange a break from being in so many stores and vaults, he must be getting tired from all this activity...
@Timemachinego said: I understand the reasoning of "it's just a simple swap" but kind of have to agree with the people that feel like they're getting locked out of rewards if they had already gone high on one character. If nothing else it speeds up the rate that one might have to re-roster a 4 if going after a specific 5 (and in said scenario neither would get to be maxed any time soon). I'd rethink these "simple swaps" in the future unless we really are moving fully (as in quickly) into a double-fed situation for all 5s; that would take most of the sting out of swaps like these.
@Timemachinego said: I understand the reasoning of "it's just a simple swap" but kind of have to agree with the people that feel like they're getting locked out of rewards if they had already gone high on one character. If nothing else it speeds up the rate that one might have to re-roster a 4 if going after a specific 5 (and in said scenario neither would get to be maxed any time soon).
But what's the alternative here. Giving out retro rewards gives out WAY too much stuff to the entire player base to handle the issue that a few players have of missing out on a cover or so due to the feeder swap. That doesn't make any sense.
Look at it this way, to build a dupe to L280 requires 23 covers (13+10). That's only 3 more covers than the regular gap of 20 covers it takes between feeder rewards (280, 300, 320 etc).
KGB
The "it's just a simple swap" really reminds me how much the devs (both new and old ones) don't really understand the concept of playing the game. They definitely understand the actual game, just not the time and effort it can take to play the game and the strategy needed to get the right team for your style of game play.
It can take months and months to target a specific 4* to get the rewards needed for a 5*. Lots of sacrificing other awards and possibly even paying some money for things like the Choose Your Own Adventure bundle to boost your 4*.
To just up and say "it's a simple swap" really is a slap in the face to someone who might have been specifically targeting either War Machine or Hulkbuster.
Is it a lot of people? I have no idea. And maybe nobody really cares about either of those awards.
But what it if happened to a character who mattered? What if they took 4* Beast (who feeds Apoc) and swapped it with 4* Blob (who feeds Sinister)? I'm guessing people might be a bit more upset.
I get they are trying to have the feeders make more sense, but it seems to be a case of moving things around that didn't necessarily need to be moved.
We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest.
Honestly, who uses 5* IM and Rescue unless it's their favourite character? Based on my memory, both of them are bottom tiers and I bet none of us use them on a regular basis.
@KGB said: @Timemachinego said: I understand the reasoning of "it's just a simple swap" but kind of have to agree with the people that feel like they're getting locked out of rewards if they had already gone high on one character. If nothing else it speeds up the rate that one might have to re-roster a 4 if going after a specific 5 (and in said scenario neither would get to be maxed any time soon). I'd rethink these "simple swaps" in the future unless we really are moving fully (as in quickly) into a double-fed situation for all 5s; that would take most of the sting out of swaps like these. But what's the alternative here. Giving out retro rewards gives out WAY too much stuff to the entire player base to handle the issue that a few players have of missing out on a cover or so due to the feeder swap. That doesn't make any sense. Look at it this way, to build a dupe to L280 requires 23 covers (13+10). That's only 3 more covers than the regular gap of 20 covers it takes between feeder rewards (280, 300, 320 etc). KGB
@KGB said:
This. I've at this point gotten more than one character to 370 twice. Just because you've "finished" them doesn't mean you shouldn't re-roster them. 4* covers are way too valuable to pass up the rewards for - roster them again, sell the original once the dupe is champed if you have to, but definitely don't throw away 4* covers. Also, once a 4* has passed 330 the rewards come every 10 covers, so unless you're close to 360 you'll get the rewards faster for the new 5*. Once you're passed 360, though, yeah that's slow-ish, but only a little slower than "normal."
The alternative is not making swaps like that, I suppose. I understand wanting to make changes when there's no logical link between feeders (or only tenuous ones) but trying to make everything a straight shot seems like it'll mess with a lot of people's progression on older characters if it works like this, without retro rewards. I also threw out the idea of clarifying if the goal is double feeders from now on because I believe that would take the sting out as long as there are NEW feeders and not just a bunch of previous feeders getting swapped around.
I agree that the 3 cover difference isn't a huge deal, the problem there (as I said already) is that it stalls out higher progress on that character itself if you want the rewards you've missed out on in the new system. It hurts the mid-range 4 rosters more than anyone because now they're 23 champ levels down the hole just to get that first cover, let alone any more, when if the character is any good you'd want those levels spent on both beefing them up AND getting the 5* progress like previously.
Edit: Sorry Sekilicious, just saw your post. Please do split them off!
A simple suggestion for the feeder-swap/no-retro-rewards controversy: Don't swap the feeders. The existing feeders (WM -> IM, IM -> Rescue) already make sense already based on the characters' relationships. This isn't like Reptil -> Havok or Hydra Stomper -> Killmonger.
@Timemachinego said: Edit: Sorry Sekilicious, just saw your post. Please do split them off!
As requested this is done!
For reference on 4* growth rates It took me 59 days to pull down 20 4* covers from shards and incidental organic pulls/features while trying to finish up 5* Widow. that was full SCL10 progression in PVE and PVP (to 1200 and save out) and spending all my cp into classic to maximize shard aquisition, so easily a few hours of daily play all in. Scale that out to starting a dupe from scratch, and you're roughly at 9 months to go from unrostered to level 360 on a 4*. What are we at now, 132 unique 4* characters? Obviously you're getting growth on more than the one you're chasing, but that's years of play down the drain whenever a feeder is changed like this.
True. Unless you have first color@5. In which case it takes 43 covers which is long. Especially when you don't or barely pull LTs because hoarding.
The alternative is absolutely to just not do such swaps and leave the retro feeders alone. I'm all for consistent feeder chains if they are happy to do retro rewards, which seemed the case for Kitty/Emma and such. Sure, awesome, go for it.
But I also totally understand that they don't want to just shower us in retro rewards. I get that. As you said, makes sense. But then... why swap them around at all? Swapping them around without retro rewards causes problems and the current system is perfectly functional.
@MegaBee said: We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest.
I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home.
@dianetics said: @MegaBee said: We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest. I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home.
@dianetics said:
I suggest replacing "slap in the face" with "this toads the wet sprocket"
@rainkingucd said: @dianetics said: @MegaBee said: We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest. I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home. I suggest replacing "slap in the face" with "this toads the wet sprocket"
@rainkingucd said:
"tiny in the kitty"
Also, "this is a Gacha game", please.
@Bowgentle said: @dianetics said: @MegaBee said: We should retire the phrase "slap in the face". It's worked hard during its long, long career. Let's let it rest. I second this, and I would also like to add the phrase “A breath of fresh air” to the retirement home. Also, "this is a Gacha game", please.
@Bowgentle said:
Seems like a Bad idea to me...
This feels like a bit of a misstep to me. While it won’t change my game much, if it did, I would feel slighted a little. This dev team has been generous and continues to be generous for the most part. This is a good thing. I know I’m personally compelled to spend more when I feel like the in game rewards aren’t targeted to make me struggle.
I say that to say this, the amount of “free” stuff would be exactly proportional to the amount of people impacted by the change. Which feels fair to me…
I’m not going to raise a stink about something like this. But, I don’t think people should hold back if they dislike it. These devs seem to actually listen and weigh feedback, so good and critical are both good tools for them.
@AlexR said: @KGB said: Look at it this way, to build a dupe to L280 requires 23 covers (13+10). That's only 3 more covers than the regular gap of 20 covers it takes between feeder rewards (280, 300, 320 etc). KGB True. Unless you have first color@5. In which case it takes 43 covers which is long. Especially when you don't or barely pull LTs because hoarding. The alternative is absolutely to just not do such swaps and leave the retro feeders alone. I'm all for consistent feeder chains if they are happy to do retro rewards, which seemed the case for Kitty/Emma and such. Sure, awesome, go for it. But I also totally understand that they don't want to just shower us in retro rewards. I get that. As you said, makes sense. But then... why swap them around at all? Swapping them around without retro rewards causes problems and the current system is perfectly functional.
@AlexR said:
@KGB said: Look at it this way, to build a dupe to L280 requires 23 covers (13+10). That's only 3 more covers than the regular gap of 20 covers it takes between feeder rewards (280, 300, 320 etc). KGB
Well it's not their fault if you are hoarding because that's a choice you make. Incidentally, if you are hoarding then you aren't getting rewards on the current 5* feeder either. So the hoarding argument doesn't make sense.
On the other hand, yes, if you already have 5 in the 1st color then you do indeed need 43 covers to get a reward you can use. That's pretty much an edge case because it's going to be quite rare.
Of course you also aren't considering the cases where you profit from this because you have the current feeder at say 360+ (past all feeder rewards) and the new feeder is much lower (say 270-350 range) and suddenly you get more feeder rewards without having to build a dupe! Basically, sometimes you'll come out ahead and sometimes you won't depending on what level the 4*s are on your roster.
I think it's pretty clear they plan to rework feeders so they make more logical sense. So being mad about them shifting them around without giving out tons of retro rewards is pointless.
@KGB said: I think it's pretty clear they plan to rework feeders so they make more logical sense. So being mad about them shifting them around without giving out tons of retro rewards is pointless. KGB
Oh yes, because making a reasonable argument against the current course of action hasn't changed ANYTHING lately! That's totally not how we got retroactive Arcade rewards from MODOK, nosiree!