Maybe the new devs will listen. It's time to nerf 5* Scarlet Witch.

2

Comments

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    As mentioned, she is a great support partner. 
    But you lose the offensive partner and be ready to struggle through a long long battle, dealing cheap damage and losing a lot of health and time. And she turning TU into a color you don't need anymore.
    Possibly if you win your reward will be 3 hits you got meanwhile. 
    What an Op character deserving a nerf!

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,668 Chairperson of the Boards
    JimboJambo said:
    Using 5* scarlet witch is one of the few times when you can watch the enemy get a ridiculous cascade and keep a smile on your face. It happened to me earlier against red hulk and it was a great feeling knowing that he was about to get wiped out by his own wanton destruction.

    Unless the repeater is matched or destroyed in the cascade, which happens moderately often because, y'know, it's a cascade.  Still, it's a great power, and of the three things she does, she definitely does damage mitigation best, and is the best in the game at it at least so far.
    Still, damage mitigation doesn't win matches.  As noted above, she's a great support character - she's replaced Okoye as the best - but she's not overpowered and she doesn't need a nerf.
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 168 Tile Toppler
    BriMan2222 said:
    Considering that you just hit my 550 apocalypse and Wanda boosted to almost lvl 600 four times in a row with an un boosted baby champ shang chi and unboosted baby champ mighty thor it seems like you're greatly exaggerating how OP Wanda is. 

    Update: 9 times in a row now,  will he go for ten?
    This is anecdotal and does not resemble the community as a whole. The devs can easily look at the numbers and see the high win ratios, defensive and offensive, with scarlet witch compared to any other character.
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 168 Tile Toppler
    Hey devs,

    The meta is not healthy. Look at the numbers and see how OP SW is compared to the other characters. Look at pick-2 events and see how often SW is used compared to others even when other characters are boosted by 100 levels. Look at the SIM teams and you will see those in the 5* tier are mainly using SW, Colossus, BRB, and Apocolypse. SW is used most often and the other 4 are used to counter her.

    There are currently 72 5*s and only a handful of characters are usable, only because they counter SW. The lack of team diversity is a massive indicator of an unhealthy meta-game. Creating counter-characters doesn't fix the problem.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    There are a lot of nostalgic hulkoye users... for them SW nerfed would be a sweet dream come true, isn't it? ;)
    And what about if we firstly nerf okoye, for the sake of a healthy meta game? This way we can nerf without worries SW and SC.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It sounds like a 550 IHukoye user asking for Wanda to be nerfed. 

    IHulkoye is frequently used in pve to secure top placements and they represent 80% of the team being used. The others being Apocalypse/BRB and SC, and maybe 550 Colossus.

    Going by that logic, they should be nerfed as well. There are 72 5* and only these 6 are usable for top placements. The lack of team diversity is a massive indicator of an unhealthy meta-game. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,348 Chairperson of the Boards
    ViralCore said:
    BriMan2222 said:
    Considering that you just hit my 550 apocalypse and Wanda boosted to almost lvl 600 four times in a row with an un boosted baby champ shang chi and unboosted baby champ mighty thor it seems like you're greatly exaggerating how OP Wanda is. 

    Update: 9 times in a row now,  will he go for ten?
    This is anecdotal and does not resemble the community as a whole. The devs can easily look at the numbers and see the high win ratios, defensive and offensive, with scarlet witch compared to any other character.
    Lol, so the 11 wins you added for Shang Chi won't drag his numbers up, eh?


    I bet there are a lot more Shang Chi's out there being built than there are Wanda. Also Wanda normally has Colossus tagging along - which 5* does Shang need with him?

    I don't suppose the Devs will want to release such information but it would be fascinating to see, although you would have to adjust for difference in release dates so perhaps looking at 2022 data would be fair.
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 168 Tile Toppler
    DAZ0273 said:
    ViralCore said:
    BriMan2222 said:
    Considering that you just hit my 550 apocalypse and Wanda boosted to almost lvl 600 four times in a row with an un boosted baby champ shang chi and unboosted baby champ mighty thor it seems like you're greatly exaggerating how OP Wanda is. 

    Update: 9 times in a row now,  will he go for ten?
    This is anecdotal and does not resemble the community as a whole. The devs can easily look at the numbers and see the high win ratios, defensive and offensive, with scarlet witch compared to any other character.
    Lol, so the 11 wins you added for Shang Chi won't drag his numbers up, eh?


    I bet there are a lot more Shang Chi's out there being built than there are Wanda. Also Wanda normally has Colossus tagging along - which 5* does Shang need with him?

    I don't suppose the Devs will want to release such information but it would be fascinating to see, although you would have to adjust for difference in release dates so perhaps looking at 2022 data would be fair.
    So, do you think 11 games out of over 500,000 makes a huge difference? Math and stats are clearly not your things...
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 168 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    It sounds like a 550 IHukoye user asking for Wanda to be nerfed. 

    IHulkoye is frequently used in pve to secure top placements and they represent 80% of the team being used. The others being Apocalypse/BRB and SC, and maybe 550 Colossus.

    Going by that logic, they should be nerfed as well. There are 72 5* and only these 6 are usable for top placements. The lack of team diversity is a massive indicator of an unhealthy meta-game. 
    Nope, I clearly ended my statement with "Creating counter-characters doesn't fix the problem." Nerf iHulk too.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    ViralCore said:. 
    Nope, I clearly ended my statement with "Creating counter-characters doesn't fix the problem." Nerf iHulk too.
    Ihulk? No. Nerf okoye. Did you avoid that topic on purpose?
    Ihulk only deals cheap AoE by himself. 
    If we are going to nerf supporting characters for the sake of a healthy meta game, then nerf okoye, who can quick score with just a 4* partner.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,348 Chairperson of the Boards
    ViralCore said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    ViralCore said:
    BriMan2222 said:
    Considering that you just hit my 550 apocalypse and Wanda boosted to almost lvl 600 four times in a row with an un boosted baby champ shang chi and unboosted baby champ mighty thor it seems like you're greatly exaggerating how OP Wanda is. 

    Update: 9 times in a row now,  will he go for ten?
    This is anecdotal and does not resemble the community as a whole. The devs can easily look at the numbers and see the high win ratios, defensive and offensive, with scarlet witch compared to any other character.
    Lol, so the 11 wins you added for Shang Chi won't drag his numbers up, eh?


    I bet there are a lot more Shang Chi's out there being built than there are Wanda. Also Wanda normally has Colossus tagging along - which 5* does Shang need with him?

    I don't suppose the Devs will want to release such information but it would be fascinating to see, although you would have to adjust for difference in release dates so perhaps looking at 2022 data would be fair.
    So, do you think 11 games out of over 500,000 makes a huge difference? Math and stats are clearly not your things...
    Ha ha, but what about those 500,000 Shang Chi wins!! Good point!! And what does the Community "as as a whole" look like to you? I mean I am a **** idiot obviously but at least I understand that "the Community as a whole" isn't just the 50 people you know on Line! 😀
  • Mrcl25
    Mrcl25 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    DAZ0273 said:
    I think the Devs should give every character a passive that produces Call the Swarm tiles and then make Wasp a 6*.
    I think the new devs will surprise us with the rebalanced 5* Wasp.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,668 Chairperson of the Boards
    I barely use Okoye anymore despite the fact that she's my highest character at 511.  She just doesn't play well enough with the boosted 5* meta - it's pretty hard to get her to tank with the best boosted 5*s and when she doesn't tank she bleeds TU (and therefore damage.)  I play Apoc a lot more (he's fairly close behind her at 509,) because he's easier to play when he's not tanking, and he's better on his own - his black and red hit hard enough even when he's not boosted that he can play with the big boys.
    Anyway, some characters are always going to be more powerful and/or more useful than others - that's the nature of the game.  A game would need to have truly astounding devs to have everyone perfectly balanced, and that's never been the case for this game.  Remember Sentry?  XWolvie?  Heck even Hulkbuster stood head and shoulders above other 4*s until the meta caught up with him.
    Nerfs drive players away.  Unless the character is actively toxic for the game (and Gambit was, Bishop too I think.  WorthyCap was a bit niche but I get why they did it,) the devs are, and frankly should, be very reluctant to nerf.  There's a reason those two were the last to get any kind of serious nerf and that was years ago.
    Again, if anything Shang-Chi is worse for game balance than Wanda because he can be used to defeat any node.  But I don't think he should be nerfed because he's weak in PVP.
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,329 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2022
    ViralCore said:
    BriMan2222 said:
    Considering that you just hit my 550 apocalypse and Wanda boosted to almost lvl 600 four times in a row with an un boosted baby champ shang chi and unboosted baby champ mighty thor it seems like you're greatly exaggerating how OP Wanda is. 

    Update: 9 times in a row now,  will he go for ten?
    This is anecdotal and does not resemble the community as a whole. The devs can easily look at the numbers and see the high win ratios, defensive and offensive, with scarlet witch compared to any other character.
    Okay, so your anecdotal evidence of "When a level 500 character can easily take down buffed 650s, there's a problem." is valid when a character that is 150 levels lower can win but the anecdotal evidence of 450's taking down a boosted lvl 600 which is also a 150 level difference and also your anecdotal evidence is not?

    Does having characters boosted to lvl 650 "represent the community as a whole"?
  • CharlieLima
    CharlieLima Posts: 112 Tile Toppler
    GrimSkald said:
    Again, if anything Shang-Chi is worse for game balance than Wanda because he can be used to defeat any node.  But I don't think he should be nerfed because he's weak in PVP.
    He’s ineffective with countdown tug-of-war node and invisible characters. And he also takes more time and better decision-making than a simple retal repeater.
  • JackDeath666
    JackDeath666 Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    Viral Core's description of what he sees in Sim is exactly what I see and have seen for a while now. That will be the same for many players, although maybe only above a certain level of roster. I think the main reason SW is/seems strong is that she is usually attached at the waist to Colossus. Plus many people have them both at 550. Between them it's tough to do much damage. This all might start to change soon though with the newer characters that have been released. 
  • Akoni
    Akoni Posts: 790 Critical Contributor
    ViralCore said:
    Hey devs,

    The meta is not healthy. Look at the numbers and see how OP SW is compared to the other characters. Look at pick-2 events and see how often SW is used compared to others even when other characters are boosted by 100 levels. Look at the SIM teams and you will see those in the 5* tier are mainly using SW, Colossus, BRB, and Apocolypse. SW is used most often and the other 4 are used to counter her.

    There are currently 72 5*s and only a handful of characters are usable, only because they counter SW. The lack of team diversity is a massive indicator of an unhealthy meta-game. Creating counter-characters doesn't fix the problem.
    Viral, I understand where you are coming from but you have to look at the issue from all sides. You're asking for a nerf on a character that is a support character at best. Few, if any, build their team around SW at the lead. She is usually added to fill a void or address a specific need.

    Yes, SW can perform on her own for short periods, but her active powers are slow. I know, her purple is only 3 AP, but it is a support power that does no harm to the opponent and can actually help the enemy. It leaves SW's blue as her only active power. Mind you, her blue does not shut down the opponent, it only slows them a bit.

    With that said, SW is invited to the party because of her passive counter. It is a devastating power, but is limited by strategic play. In addition, SW does not have high health like Knull, can still be stunned, sent airborne, and made inept by removing her repeater tile. Let's also remember that SW is an answer to the cascade issue. 

    Lastly, I am not a fan of asking for a nerf without identifying the specific issue and offering solutions. A character being able to take out a bigger opponent is not reason for a nerf. If that were the case, I say we nerf 3* Spidey because his blue stun combined with his yellow beatdown is capable of taking out 4* and, dare I say, 5* characters. What about 1* Juggernaut's ability to decimate an entire team of 550s? If we dive deeper into how these characters are able to win, we can see that it is because of team mechanics. 3* Spidey is only much of a threat on a stun heavy team with blue tile/AP generation like BRB/Polaris. 1* Juggs is only a threat on a team that feeds his green like BRB/Polaris. Looking at the similarities, we can see that the issue isn't Spidey or Juggs, but with the BRB/Polaris combo. When we isolate Spidey and Juggs by putting them by themselves or on different teams we see that they are not as powerful as initially perceived. For this reason, Spidey and Juggs should not be nerfed.

    We can also do the same by looking at the BRB/Polaris combo and see that neither BRB or Polaris are OP. They are both powerful and leads on many teams, but are not so powerful as to need nerfs. The synergy with this combo is just extremely high. Separate them and they are good, but not broken. Another example is Hulkoye. The name says it all. The synergy between iHulk and Okoye is extremely high. The difference with this combo is that iHulk is meh by himself and Okoye is a lead no matter what team she is on. In addition, she performs great on her own. Out of all of the characters mentioned in this reply, the only one that warrants attention in a nerf discussion is Okoye. Even then, I would proceed with caution since Okoye only has high synergy with specific types of characters and can be easily countered with strategic play. 

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