Keep the new rewards system?

TheEyeDoctorsWife

Based on your theory of a fixed extrapolation of progression, I’ve played 3.5 years this week, and if my goal is to just champ all 5* by non competitive play , I will need 6.5 years more to catch up and 450 the entire 5* tier. A decade total of daily play . I’m hoping nothing major changes like the release of 6*. Then I’d quit rather than chase a dangling carrot for life. 

HoundofShadow

That's why setting realistic expectation and realistic goal is important. For example, if a player played MPQ casually or non-competitively for 5-6 years and his earn rate is only 1.5 to 2 LT a day but his expectation is that he should be able to catch up to all Latest 5* or he should be to  champ all characters because he has already played 5 years, then it's an expectation problem. 

The top players are earning an average of ~4.5 to 5 LTs or its equivalent a day. I earn ~3.2 LTs a day. If you want to champ all Latest 5* consistently, shards aside, you need to earn ~3 LT a day. Using the above example again, if you're earning 1.5 LT to 2 LT a day, and you also expect to champ all 5*, then it's an expectation problem. If your solution is simply not to play/pay more or play as hard as those top players, but to expect the dev to increase the rewards such that you are champing all latest 5* consistently, then you'll have an uphill battle. In order to fulfill your request of champing all 5*, the dev need to increase the number of CPs by 50-75 per day permanently to fulfill casual/non-competitive players who want to champ all 5* easily within a certain timeframe. If that happens, top players would also be earning 7-8 LTs a day instead. Then, the resources economy would be messed up.

Blergh

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

Yes the answer is that simple , unless you’re a player who lacks basic common sense. But for the vast majority ( I presume 97% since I’m not competitive and can still finish top 3-4% in SCL 10 just using common sense ) of players, we just enjoy the game more than rewards. There’s a player in my alliance playing 4.5 years and he’s still collecting and playing the 4* tier. Vast majority of my alliance is similar. Maybe 4 chase placement rewards. I know I’ll get a lot of pushback because I’m not a dork with spreadsheets spending half the day on Lime or Readit. So obviously I must be clueless not being in that cartel. But to most players this game is merely a distraction in our leisure time . 

If you want less push back, dropping the passive aggressive tone might help. People tend to get upset when you say they lack common sense or you call them a dork.

Congrats on the top 30. But that hasn't been my experience as a more casual player.

In the current event (name escapes me, sorry) I am playing sub optimally. Complete the nodes within few a hours of the start. And a fourth usually with about six hours left on the clock is giving me a top 100-200 finish. And that tends to be pretty consistent.

It's usually a lot worse when I am all over the place with playing nodes. Hitting four times mid sub or something. Or just clearing the rewards at the end or whatever.

Only event I've broke past top 50 in the last year was Hulkings release. And that required optimal play. Three right at start. Two within an hour of close (don't have the greatest of rosters, so takes me a while). I also sniped a fresh bracket, so had a head start over most of the optimal players in the first sub.

In terms of pure match 3 gameplay mechanics I prefer Candy Crush and Gems of War to MPQ. Greater puzzles, interesting challenges and greater variety in goals/tasks. Deeper match systems too in a lot of ways. 

I think the only thing MPQ does better is the competitive element.

Bowgentle

Just don't feed trolls.
And ignore everything that doesn't come with a Screenshot with scores for alleged placement.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

HoundofShadow said:

That's why setting realistic expectation and realistic goal is important. For example, if a player played MPQ casually or non-competitively for 5-6 years and his earn rate is only 1.5 to 2 LT a day but his expectation is that he should be able to catch up to all Latest 5* or he should be to  champ all characters because he has already played 5 years, then it's an expectation problem. 

The top players are earning an average of ~4.5 to 5 LTs or its equivalent a day. I earn ~3.2 LTs a day. If you want to champ all Latest 5* consistently, shards aside, you need to earn ~3 LT a day. Using the above example again, if you're earning 1.5 LT to 2 LT a day, and you also expect to champ all 5*, then it's an expectation problem. If your solution is simply not to play/pay more or play as hard as those top players, but to expect the dev to increase the rewards such that you are champing all latest 5* consistently, then you'll have an uphill battle. In order to fulfill your request of champing all 5*, the dev need to increase the number of CPs by 50-75 per day permanently to fulfill casual/non-competitive players who want to champ all 5* easily within a certain timeframe. If that happens, top players would also be earning 7-8 LTs a day instead. Then, the resources economy would be messed up.

I realize that because I only earn 1.5 a day I estimate (39 LT since Elektra left) and at that rate and the percentage of covers I’m short realistically it’s 6.5 years of play . I have no idea how to earn more ( without spending to buy every LT offer ) but at least now I can keep pace champing new characters or at least 10 by the time they leave LL. I have 20 characters 6 covers or less from the early days that are classic and useless and that will take up a minimum of 2011 days to cover . (Unless I get a job promotion again then I’ll never have time to play and will fail in my endeavor)
 Edit: With lower PvP reward levels I can now have time for an extra 18 CP every 60 hours, this may accelerate my time line but it’s too early to tell. 

DAZ0273

HoundofShadow said:

I saw the comment asking the dev team to be fired in the past recent months. It was in one of the 4*/5* character threads. The reason why we haven't seen more of such comments yet is because the real test for the new dev team has yet to arrived. We are still in the Orientation phase and the first term begins in September.

Brigby was a nice and helpful moderator but there were players who were unhappy with him because he doesn't come back with clear answers about questions being asked. And this bring us to "solving problems" in MPQ. If the new dev team doesn't "solve" problems within a certain timeframe set by those players, you'll definitely see more of the above comments in the future. One of the favourite neutral answers that the ex-dev give goes something like "We're looking at it." or "We're still thinking about it." And those (veteran) players don't like that kind of answers. If the dev does give answer but it's not the answer that they want to hear, we'll get "out of touch" comments directed at them.

As for mob, I believe they (those in Line) can do it if they want to. Shardmas review bombing was a good one. Posting cheating videos in here and in reddit simultaneously and revealing to players in reddit on how to cheat was another coordinated way of pressuring the dev to do things within the timeframe they want.  

As for woods, fuels, and fire, things are getting more expensive (~20-30% increase) for everyone  However, high unemployment rates and recession will bring down the price of all these goods. Pick your poison. 

Isn't this just fearmongering and projection of your own bias? You might be right but that doesn't mean you may also not be wrong.

I remember the comments about Brigby being the "Town Cryer" - I also remember the posters who were behind these comments and as stated they rarely post here anymore. This is a free forum and so long as posters don't break rules (I feel perhaps these comments may have actually breached rules myself personally) then players are free to provide feedback. Obviously you would hope it is reasonable feedback but that can't be controlled unless the Mods decide to get very heavy handed.

"We're looking at it." or "We're still thinking about it." And those (veteran) players don't like that kind of answers.

Well they may not like those kind of answers but if they express that in a reasonable and polite manner then it is fine. If they are rude or aggressive, hopefully it is shut down as being unacceptable.

As for mob, I believe they (those in Line) can do it if they want to.

Mob gonna mob! Truth is things could have gone better on both sides with the whole Sharmas debacle but again that was years ago.

As for woods, fuels, and fire, things are getting more expensive (~20-30% increase) for everyone  However, high unemployment rates and recession will bring down the price of all these goods. Pick your poison.

Here is my poison - look out things are gonna get torchy when I finally think of something to *really* complain about! Now where did I leave those marshmallows?

dianetics

Holy walls of text.
Completely off topic, but the slice segment is manageable. It won’t work for everyone but it will work for a lot of people.
There could be room for adjustment but I doubt any changes in scoring will affect placement.
Maybe just running each node to completion with no point reduction could be helpful but again that wouldnt changed placement. But it could reduce time in game which could be beneficial.

I think there are other parts of the game that need more love than PvE slices and scoring.

HoundofShadow

That's not fearmongering, but history. It's useful to learn from history or past events. It could pre-empt us future events or give us signs. Unfortunately, I don't remember those names that said those things and I don't remember that was the name given to Brigby. I rarely look at names when I post unless I need to. 

I believe that communication between dev and players in a civilised manner, regardless of differences in goals/thinking, is important because it affects relationship in the long term. At the end of day, everyone wants to see MPQ last as long as possible, I think.   

I think marshmallow has been kept away due to sugar tax.

Blergh

Gacha games are designed to create those psychological gaps and hamster wheel behaviour every day. 

Erm what's a psychological gap? What do you mean by that?

My Master's was only partially based in psychology so I'm not an expert on biological-driven behaviour, but Gacha games are designed to operant condition people into forming S-R links through positive reinforcement. This is mainly done through mechanisms that release euphoric hormones that excite the pleasure centres of the brain. Things that make people feel good. That's why bonus heroes were such a hit - people felt like they'd won the jackpot. 

They are essentially drugging people with their own bodies through stimuli that will create hormones. And the systems are largely based on existing systems that exist in the gambling industry - as they've been doing for centuries on some scale. 

The question is, does having an adrenaline-fuelled competitive race and battle to the finish that will make a player feel pressured stimulate euphoric hormones that build a positive S-R link or is it more likely to result in the release and creation of cortisol - a stress hormone that will build negative S-R links? And if you are creating a biological stressor that other games avoid - while providing a higher pleasure response - is it a sustainable model that can compete in the marketplace? 

Does creating a rigid and structured system that offers little variety or play mechanics engage the pleasures at all? Or are people popping in an auto team and doing it on auto-pilot with very little engagement? As if so, how is this creating an S-R link at all?

That's kind of why hamster behaviour would be bad. Don't want someone just turning the wheel and feeling nothing. You want them to crank and scream about how they love this wheel to death when they do it. 

Hamster behaviour - no feeling there. No hormone production. What I sense about this wheel is just how empty of thought and feelings it makes me - is something no marketer will aim for. 

What is worse is if they form a negative S-R with turning the wheel. As then it becomes a chore. Awww, I have to turn this tiny kitten wheel again. 

And if they begin forming a negative S-R link, does that fuel the negative behaviour of the player base that you are reporting. Gatcha games need to understand the psychological drives behind their player's behaviour so they can correct their own mechanisms to create more positive links. Failing to do so will result in huge audience turnover and low retention/loyalty.

It is why the majority of mobile games give you a big bright colourful calendar jam-packed full of presents. Oh, presents! Pleasure. And offer easily obtainable top-tier characters - as it makes you feel like you're winning. 

If a large number of people are complaining about game time and rewards - do they feel like they are winning? Isn't this, in itself a failure in the gatcha system deployed? 

The word useable is subjective.

That is exactly my point. All I said was I can see contexts in which those criticisms would be legitimate. And gave an example. A new player comes across, thinking they know the system because of similarities between games and feeling conned when they found out the systems operate in different ways.

That expectation is on the game to explain - and make crystal clear. They should be able to communicate their game in a way that doesn't happen and set the player's expectations around that. 

If you want MPQ to function and play like other games that you've played before, wouldn't it be easier to quit MPQ and play those Marvels Games that fit your specific criteria?

If I played those games and felt cheated and confused - then yes. It would be better for me. But would it be better for the business running MPQ? Negative reviews and upset feelings. 

As for feeling unrewarded, this is subjective...

No. As stated earlier this is kind of a gatcha model. Not a typical one but close. Making people feel rewarded is the whole point of the model - and how the model thrives. 

DAZ0273

HoundofShadow said:

That's not fearmongering, but history. It's useful to learn from history or past events. It could pre-empt us future events or give us signs. Unfortunately, I don't remember those names that said those things and I don't remember that was the name given to Brigby. I rarely look at names when I post unless I need to. 

I believe that communication between dev and players in a civilised manner, regardless of differences in goals/thinking, is important because it affects relationship in the long term. At the end of day, everyone wants to see MPQ last as long as possible, I think.   

I think marshmallow has been kept away due to sugar tax.

History doesn't always repeat itself but...I am setting myself up for a hard fail if I continue along that line of reasoning!

Couldn't agree with your second paragraph anymore.

*Reaches for Flamethrower* - Nobody puts Marshmallow in the corner.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

Bowgentle said:

Just don't feed trolls.
And ignore everything that doesn't come with a Screenshot with scores for alleged placement.

Private troll reporting for duty, Mr MPQ Illuminati. ( And I missed Tuesday grind due to a long business meeting ). I’m sure your arrogance will accuse me of lying because there’s no way I’m smarter than your kind.

CoxLargo

I dont know if someone posted this, but I would like to keep 75 winning matches rewards, with better rewards.

Im aiming for 25 wins(now) so it feels a bit long 3 days for it

HoundofShadow

The gap is the need to complete something. Competition wise, most running competitions with tiered placements require all participants to start and stop at the same time. So, I thought that's nothing wrong with this in MPQ?

Anyway, it seems like with the roll-out of Heroic Dark Avengers Gargantos boss event, unemployment rates in MPQ will be increasing, and they will be holding pitchfork and torch outside BCS HQ soon. We aren't even near September and the dev has to be firefighter now.

Timemachinego

Blergh said:

 

As for feeling unrewarded, this is subjective...

No. As stated earlier this is kind of a gatcha model. Not a typical one but close. Making people feel rewarded is the whole point of the model - and how the model thrives. 

I'm glad this thread got really good! I'm sorry for the huge trim (it was well thought and interesting!) but I think THIS bit is kind of the crux of it. Many of us feel rewarded climbing up to this or that point but the "good feels" drop off as we continue on. For many players that's getting a cool 3* Iron Man and using him, for some of us that's assembling a real powerful roster and finally getting a t10 victory in some meaningful bracket. The rarest of us is aiming to repeat that amazing result over and over and at that point only those repeated results matter at all, everything else is NOT the huge dopamine hit of success that we're looking for.

New characters that don't turn the needle and give us an edge don't get us that hit, they're an obstacle. New modes that we can't dominate and don't give us tools to dominate with also don't give us that hit, they're a chore to do to keep up with everyone else that's looking for an edge. It's kind of horrible thinking about it. I enjoy a new character for a few minutes, I enjoy a new board situation I haven't already seen (rare at this point), most of my other game-time is trying to do better than I did before or just keep up with the joneses. I don't know how you solve that.