It's time to start releasing more 3*s

shardwick

3s are great for generating cp and legendary tokens but with that said that doesn't mean that I want a bunch of new 3s added to the game unless they plan on lowering the cost of a roster slot. I think the solution is to add a new way to feed 4s and 5s. Something that is similar to a milestone but not an actual one so that it can repeat. Like for every 25 3* covers that you get you would get 4* shards in a favorited 4*, and the same would happen with 4s to feed 5s. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Maybe just include a slug of favorite shards in the max-champ sellback price

fight4thedream

I honestly would prefer they finish releasing 4* characters and establish the 6* tier. Obviously that would require a restructuring of the reward system, opening of new Clearance Levels and begs the question of what a 6* character would be but the 4* tier is already bloated as it is and the 5* tier has reached a sort of equilibrium in terms of power dynamics.

I don't see how expanding the 3* tier really benefits anyone. I would be more open to the idea if they designed new 3* characters to have better synergy with the higher tiers but I don't know if there really is a big enough market for 3* characters to justify the cost in developing new ones. 

They can always restructure champ rewards to include more 4* shards in the existing 3* champ rewards scheme. With that said, I suspect the reason for their reluctance to move on is that the 4* tier is still currently a significant money maker for the game. I wouldn't be surprised if offers featuring Polaris have made more money than most 5* offers. 

Srheer0

fight4thedream said:

I honestly would prefer they finish releasing 4* characters and establish the 6* tier. Obviously that would require a restructuring of the reward system, opening of new Clearance Levels and begs the question of what a 6* character would be but the 4* tier is already bloated as it is and the 5* tier has reached a sort of equilibrium in terms of power dynamics.

I don't see how expanding the 3* tier really benefits anyone. I would be more open to the idea if they designed new 3* characters to have better synergy with the higher tiers but I don't know if there really is a big enough market for 3* characters to justify the cost in developing new ones. 

They can always restructure champ rewards to include more 4* shards in the existing 3* champ rewards scheme. With that said, I suspect the reason for their reluctance to move on is that the 4* tier is still currently a significant money maker for the game. I wouldn't be surprised if offers featuring Polaris have made more money than most 5* offers. 

What I would welcome, is if they made a "champion+" system.

When you do certain things, you can level your supports up a tier.

Or make your 4stars a 5star in terms of power and character level. 

Imagine how much fun the game would be if your 4s could go as high as level 550. They already have the numbers for specific SCL10 nodes where 4stars can go as high as that. 

bbigler

When a 4* is max champed and boosted for the event, they are at the level of 5*s at 450.  So, we already have the rotating option of combining 4*s and 5*s.  

Back in 2013, a fully covered 3* was like a 5* champ now.  And having those 3*s at max level was like having a 550 now.  Anyone with them could dominate.  

In 2014-2015, max leveled 3*s were common but only the top 1% of players had max leveled 4*s. 

In 2016-2017, 4* champs were becoming common but only the top 5% of players had 5* champs.  

Then 5* champs became common enough that they introduced SCL 10.  

Now in 2022, 550’s are no longer held by the top 1%, but are slowly becoming more common.  I would guess the top 5% have 550’s while 50% of players have 5* champs (or softcapped ones).  

So……is it time for a higher tier?  Maybe in the next year or two.  Perhaps on the 10 yr anniversary in Oct 2023 they’ll introduce 6* characters, but they would have to be seriously limited.  

Imagine a shiny black Epic token that gives 5* or 6* covers.  These 6* characters (starting with Galactus, then Dormammu) would start at level 450 and go up to 650 with 13 covers, then 6* champ levels would max at 750.  

Most likely, they’ll increase the commonality of 4* and 5* supports before introducing a 6* tier.  

Bad

Honestly I would be happy if 6* tier was released. That would mean a major revolution, scl11, new modes,etc...
They could try to enable pvp in real time, which is a transversal feature.
However I see them keeping a low profile.
They aren't even keeping power creep. They are releasing interesting sinergy with 5*s and trying to design them funny rather than meta.
And seeing the forum contest, the majority of the players are 4*. They can play, of course, with softcapped 5*. 
But if 6* were released, 4* players would be interested in a 450 level 6* character changing MMR?
I don't think so.

bbigler

Softcapping players are going to be left behind as the game moves forward.  I already think they are “behind” because they can’t compete in PVE SCL 10, meaning getting good placement.  I also think their decision to play at a lower level is somewhat misinformed, referring to the assumption that you will always play with and against the same PVP teams ad nauseum.  

KGB

bbigler said:

Softcapping players are going to be left behind as the game moves forward.  I already think they are “behind” because they can’t compete in PVE SCL 10, meaning getting good placement.  I also think their decision to play at a lower level is somewhat misinformed, referring to the assumption that you will always play with and against the same PVP teams ad nauseum.  

Only 10 players in PVE SCL10 are getting awards that really matter. The difference between 11th and 100th is infinitesimal (25 5* shards and 50 4* shards so it will take 20 events to generate 1 extra 5* cover which is 3 months). As a 4* soft cap player, I can move up to CL10 and place T100 when it's an event that I can handle easily (ie not Simulator, Deadpool or the Captain Marvel one).

The only thing that matters is whether you can reach progression in CL10 PVE.

KGB

Timemachinego

bbigler said:

Softcapping players are going to be left behind as the game moves forward.  I already think they are “behind” because they can’t compete in PVE SCL 10, meaning getting good placement.  I also think their decision to play at a lower level is somewhat misinformed, referring to the assumption that you will always play with and against the same PVP teams ad nauseum.  

We may have different definitions of softcapping, but I'm at 360/330 and have started landing top10s in PVE SCL10 with primarily 4* teams so you may be overestimating what is actually required to compete there (though admittedly there are a few events that I either switch down and gun for t5 or play casually for progression, depending on the 5* shards). PVP is another story, I'm pretty well held to 1k (and t50 or so) without multiple hops and BR q's, but that's as expected.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

bbigler said:

Softcapping players are going to be left behind as the game moves forward.  I already think they are “behind” because they can’t compete in PVE SCL 10, meaning getting good placement.  I also think their decision to play at a lower level is somewhat misinformed, referring to the assumption that you will always play with and against the same PVP teams ad nauseum.  

I don’t know what softcap means , but I have only 9 5* at 452-450.  That is good enough to finish top 50 at SCL 10 and there’s not much difference in rewards from 11-100. I’m satisfied with my placement.

bbigler

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

bbigler said:

Softcapping players are going to be left behind as the game moves forward.  I already think they are “behind” because they can’t compete in PVE SCL 10, meaning getting good placement.  I also think their decision to play at a lower level is somewhat misinformed, referring to the assumption that you will always play with and against the same PVP teams ad nauseum.  

I don’t know what softcap means , but I have only 9 5* at 452-450.  That is good enough to finish top 50 at SCL 10 and there’s not much difference in rewards from 11-100. I’m satisfied with my placement.

Softcap means to not level up your characters all the way, but purposely keep them below a certain level.  Some players softcap their 5*s around level 360, even if they are fully covered.  Some will softcap their 5*s to the highest level of their 4* champs.  

tonypq

They could theoretically release more 1/2/3s and implement some new PVP or PVE events around them. Lord knows this game could use some fresh new events and concepts. If they did release new 1/2/3s some new events could be designed for them. 

There could be consistent events where a PVE or PVP is always going on. Just like we have now but focused on the 1/2/3 characters where you only use charactersfrom those tiers. New players or those who haven't played long enough to develop a roster that covers all the 1/2/3s, would give them a way to continue roster building those tiers and still keep up with any new ones released.

Maybe they could include among the rewards a roster slot in each event. This would benefit new players especially F2P to build their rosters and not have to think about selling a character to make room for a new one. It would also greatly benefit 4/5* players being able to gain a roster slot from playing these events an give them an incentive to play an event that isn't 4/5* based. Shards and or covers could be included among the rewards like we have in current events and make it easier for everyone to keep up. 

This would give D3 more options to release some new characters and events or whatever, while keeping a nice middle ground for players off all tiers. 

As far as a 6* tier, it's certainly not something I'm looking forward to anytime soon. Not with all the character imbalance we already have. Or the inability to often release characters that can stand on their own two feet. Too frequently a new release is a big swing and a miss, less often might be a meta character. It doesn't seem like they can strike a good balance between releasing a weak sauce character vs a good to great one. 

I'm not against a 6* tier at some point. However I really wish they would make 5s much easier to be obtained first. Allow players entering 5* tier a chance to significantly accelerate their developmen. For those who've been at the 5 tier for a long time already a chance to finish off classics they may have missed or newer 5s from LLs that many may have  passed on. Allow alliances to get stronger in advance to deal with 6*s and events.

Not every player who mains the 5* tier and SCL10 have all the 5s rostered and covered. The 5 tier has grown a lot over the years in numbers and diversity. However for many players the current acquisition rate doesn't allow them to fully take advantage of different synergies that exist now or are sprouting up, that might be direly needed to deal with going up against 6*s in the future. 

captainheath

If they do 6*, I think having the limitation of only one on a team at a time would work best.  That way the five stars still stay relevant in the long run.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

I don’t want a tier 6. It took me 3 years to where I can beat 90% of the SCL 10 level 650 teams in PvE. I’d have no chance fighting a level 750 BRB, Carnag5 or Mindless Ones dropping 15K passive damage on turn 1. Considering where I place I don’t think more than 2% of the player base could handle that , Tier 6 would just be a place where the rich get richer . ( I would be fine with it if once a player joined tier 6 they were permanently locked into it and could not face non tier 6 teams /rosters )

bbigler

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

I don’t want a tier 6. It took me 3 years to where I can beat 90% of the SCL 10 level 650 teams in PvE. I’d have no chance fighting a level 750 BRB, Carnag5 or Mindless Ones dropping 15K passive damage on turn 1. Considering where I place I don’t think more than 2% of the player base could handle that , Tier 6 would just be a place where the rich get richer . ( I would be fine with it if once a player joined tier 6 they were permanently locked into it and could not face non tier 6 teams /rosters )

This touches on some fundamental aspects of society.  Is it wrong for those who have succeeded to succeed more?  No, there’s nothing wrong with the rich getting richer because they’re working for it.  It’s fair.  Now some people may be jealous of them, but that’s a character flaw with them.  We should be happy with each other’s success, not jealous when someone has more than you. Even whales are working for their success because they’re sacrificing A LOT of money to get a high level roster.  That’s something most people are not willing to do, and it keeps the game well funded.  

But there’s another matter here: should these high level rosters be allowed to play in lower SCLs and take rewards away from lower rosters?  Is that fair?  The immediate human reaction is to say that it’s not a fair competition, just like giant corporations competing against small business owners.  But would it be justified to ban players ranked 120+ from SCL 9 and below?  That would take away their freedom, which can also be wrong.  Ideally, we should give people the maximum amount of freedom that doesn’t hurt other people, but that’s tricky, because your freedom usually affects others.  But it’s certainly wrong to heavily restrict and control people too, like authoritarian governments.  Ultimately, we should care about each other instead of being selfish, and not use our freedom to hurt other people (with great power comes great responsibility).  We should also be tolerant of other people’s freedoms.  

The game devs have tried to corral high level rosters into SCL 10 by offering better rewards there while still giving them the freedom to play at lower levels.  The best system allows for everyone to succeed, and you will always have players at different levels.  Plus, those low level players can eventually become high level players, so don’t criticize the rich when you’re poor because someday you can be rich too.  Ask a rich person if they’ve always been rich and they’ll probably say no.  

So, introducing tier 6* characters and SCL 11 would be fine, even encouraged since it would allow high level rosters to progress more.  Damnation is literally putting a stop to someone’s progression.  And we are ultimately happy when we’re always making progress in some way.  

Vhailorx

I'm gonna steer clear of the objectivist themes of bbigler's response (save it for galt's gulch!) and just restrict myself to pointing out that IF "rich-get-richer" is a dealbreaking game design philosophy for any player, that player should stay very, very far away from MPQ. This game has always been designed to heavily favor those players who invest lots of time, money, or both into the game.

Akoni

@bbigler I agree that the introduction of more 3* should take into account the impact of all tiers. Though I believe it would make some players happy, it would also make the game more difficult for many others. I don't think change needs to make everyone happy, but it should make most happy and trigger growth for the game. 

@TheEyeDoctorsWife @tonypq I remember talking about adding a 6th tier early on when I started playing and was met with quite a bit of backlash. I think only 1 person commented that they agreed. A ton of people said they'd quit if it happened. I predicted that it would have to happen within the next 3-5 years. I'm now on day 1430 and more people seem to be open to the idea. I don't think anyone is ready for 6* yet, though (not even the devs), but I can see it potentially happening in the next couple of years.

bbigler said:

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

bbigler said:

Softcapping players are going to be left behind as the game moves forward.  I already think they are “behind” because they can’t compete in PVE SCL 10, meaning getting good placement.  I also think their decision to play at a lower level is somewhat misinformed, referring to the assumption that you will always play with and against the same PVP teams ad nauseum.  

I don’t know what softcap means , but I have only 9 5* at 452-450.  That is good enough to finish top 50 at SCL 10 and there’s not much difference in rewards from 11-100. I’m satisfied with my placement.

Softcap means to not level up your characters all the way, but purposely keep them below a certain level.  Some players softcap their 5*s around level 360, even if they are fully covered.  Some will softcap their 5*s to the highest level of their 4* champs.  

I always thought soft capping meant taking the character to 13 covers but not champing them. Huh... I learn something new everyday.

McPosterson

yes.  Too small for big star roster.  Help me greatly with 3*

roderic1

More 3*s don't help older players and dilute the pool for younger players. 6*s immediately reduce the value of 5*s most likely. Like Srheer0's idea, I'd like to see a system where 1* - 3* can be prestiged to get them up to higher amounts of health and make them more usable in higher tier play. It'd be something that would only be available once you hit SCL 10 or 11 but would, over time, give value back to having a robust roster. 

Either that or come up with some sort of event boost that raises the level of 1*-3* characters based on the number of unique characters on a roster, giving them a health boost similar to a regular or boosted 4* character. 

HoundofShadow

Just make every pvp Balance of Power and you solve every problem for 1* to 4* tier. 5* players, especially 550 rosters, would hate this though.