It's time to start releasing more 3*s

ViralCore
ViralCore Posts: 168 Tile Toppler
in MPQ General Discussion
There is now an overabundance of 4*s, and 5*s, and not enough 3*s feeders to get the train rolling.
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Comments

  • Chipster22
    Chipster22 Posts: 299 Mover and Shaker
    I'd be for that only if it came with more ways to earn HP or a cap of 1000 HP on roster spots.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,385 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’m not that into it personally, but if it happens I guess I’ll roster them.
  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 603 Critical Contributor
    I things it's really needed for the game...I can't imagine trying to start as a new player right now. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm alway puzzled by why there's a need for symmetry in the game: Every 4* need to be fed by 3*, every 5* need to be fed by 4*. Currently, there are 66 5*, 122 4*, 47 3* and 14 2*.

    Anyway, let's assume they replaced 4* with 3* release, and each 3* feeds 2 4*. Then, we would need 61 3*. So, they need to release another 14 3* which would take 14 months.  However, each 2* feeds only 1 3*. Changing their rewards to feed 2 3* will cover only 28 3*. Then, would you request them to release more 2* in place of 3* in the future? 

    So, you might say, why not make 3* feeds 3 4* each, and you get 147 4* being fed, which is 25 more than the current number of 4*. However, it means that everyone of us will have to trade cps and hps again in return for more permanent feeders. The last time it happened, a lot of players were unhappy about it. And expecting them to do this without any tradeoff is  unrealistic.

    Let's look at the current situation. Currently, 4* placement/progression rewards in pvps are rotated alphabetically, unless there are special events going on. When players unlocked SCL 7, which needs only Shield Ranking 32, they'll be able to get at least one 4* cover via progression. If they unlocked SCL 8 (SR 47), they'll get 1 4* cover and at least 400 shards of that 4*. Given that there are 3 pvps per week and 52 weeks a year, it means 156 pvps rotates a year, which is more than the current 122 4* that we have.

    I have seen feedbacks about dilution mentioned as far back as 2015/2016 in some old 4* character threads, and the number of characters back then can't be too many. It's 2022 now, and dilution is still a problem. 
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    They recognized the dilution problem and first gave us bonus covers, then that system changed to shards, mostly because (I think) they wanted to reward partial 5* covers in SCL 10. 

    There is steady progression in the game, so they must be doing something right.  Even though the 4* tier is bloated, I’m not having trouble fully covering them because of their reward system.  If rewards compensate for the dilution, then it’s manageable.  
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Increasing the speed of receiving 4* covers will speed up other problems like roster slots and iso-8 cost. It took me about 3 years to champ all 4*, and that is by playing competitively in pves, and pvps early in the game. And I've full covered the entire 4* tier by year 2. If 4* covers drop more easily for those (non-competitive) newer players, I wonder how they are going to catch up with roster slots and iso-8. Are the dev supposed to decrease roster slot costs and decrease iso-8 champing cost or increase hp and iso-8? What's the probability of these happening without any tradeoffs?
  • TheEyeDoctorsWife
    TheEyeDoctorsWife Posts: 829 Critical Contributor
    No one here uses 3s, they are transitional for the first 6 months of play only and even then if you have Strang3 and Iron Man you’re in great shape in 3 land . Deadpool, Thanos, Switch and IFist will win all the events at that level , the rest is just HP burn fodder for collectionist fanboys.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,495 Chairperson of the Boards
    3* are the main economic engine for ftp players.  They drop often enough that their reward trees can be relied for hp/iso and non trivial amt of cp. more 3* would be great to keep up farm yields.  

    While 4*/5* rewards are the tangible results of roster development.  It’s the flood of 2*/3* covers that allow ftp players keep up with the. Buy club wwhales
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 168 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm alway puzzled by why there's a need for symmetry in the game: Every 4* need to be fed by 3*, every 5* need to be fed by 4*. Currently, there are 66 5*, 122 4*, 47 3* and 14 2*.

    Anyway, let's assume they replaced 4* with 3* release, and each 3* feeds 2 4*. Then, we would need 61 3*. So, they need to release another 14 3* which would take 14 months.  However, each 2* feeds only 1 3*. Changing their rewards to feed 2 3* will cover only 28 3*. Then, would you request them to release more 2* in place of 3* in the future? 

    So, you might say, why not make 3* feeds 3 4* each, and you get 147 4* being fed, which is 25 more than the current number of 4*. However, it means that everyone of us will have to trade cps and hps again in return for more permanent feeders. The last time it happened, a lot of players were unhappy about it. And expecting them to do this without any tradeoff is  unrealistic.

    Let's look at the current situation. Currently, 4* placement/progression rewards in pvps are rotated alphabetically, unless there are special events going on. When players unlocked SCL 7, which needs only Shield Ranking 32, they'll be able to get at least one 4* cover via progression. If they unlocked SCL 8 (SR 47), they'll get 1 4* cover and at least 400 shards of that 4*. Given that there are 3 pvps per week and 52 weeks a year, it means 156 pvps rotates a year, which is more than the current 122 4* that we have.

    I have seen feedbacks about dilution mentioned as far back as 2015/2016 in some old 4* character threads, and the number of characters back then can't be too many. It's 2022 now, and dilution is still a problem. 
    So your solution to the dilution problem is to do nothing? :/
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 168 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    Increasing the speed of receiving 4* covers will speed up other problems like roster slots and iso-8 cost. It took me about 3 years to champ all 4*, and that is by playing competitively in pves, and pvps early in the game. And I've full covered the entire 4* tier by year 2. If 4* covers drop more easily for those (non-competitive) newer players, I wonder how they are going to catch up with roster slots and iso-8. Are the dev supposed to decrease roster slot costs and decrease iso-8 champing cost or increase hp and iso-8? What's the probability of these happening without any tradeoffs?
    They should stop producing so many 4*s to slow down the dilution. Run-on a release cycle of 3* - 4* - 5* instead of 4* - 4* - 5*.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I find that the problem of dilution and the group of players who are affected by this problem have never been defined properly. My feel is that dilution affects those players who want to champ every 4* quickly. And they happen to be the group who don't play competitively or spend a lot.

    In the past, release schedule was 4/4/5/4/4/5. Now it's 4/5/4/5/4/5. So, they did slow down the introduction of 4*.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dilution can be solved thanks to shards. Don't expect to solve that by any other way.
    And if a player want to make progress on this game the worst thing he can do is to sell a 4*. It's throwing to the garbage a resource which worths a lot more than that iso.
    Once half the 4*s are rostered and champed the rewards income they provide is priceless and allow to gain all the HP and iso to roster any character released.
  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 471 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    Dilution can be solved thanks to shards. Don't expect to solve that by any other way.
    And if a player want to make progress on this game the worst thing he can do is to sell a 4*. It's throwing to the garbage a resource which worths a lot more than that iso.
    Once half the 4*s are rostered and champed the rewards income they provide is priceless and allow to gain all the HP and iso to roster any character released.

    Of course, every new 4* release makes it harder to hit that "half" point.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    They are so generous with new 4* covers that covering new 4* isn't much of a problem.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,699 Chairperson of the Boards
    I definitely want more 3's, but only if they are incorporated into the story.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    In case everyone hasn’t noticed, they give out covers for new 4* characters far far more than old 4*s.  So, despite 4* dilution, new players can easily cover all new 4*s.  

    The 3* tier is only applicable in combat for 3 months or so.  After that, it’s just a champ farm.  Progression has never been faster than it is now.  
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,604 Chairperson of the Boards
    Many have pointed out the problems with new 3's. I'd like to see more 1's, 2's, and 3's, for many reasons (do another low-level team like the Dark Avengers for more story options, have more character variety to draw new players in, more power variety in that "tutorial" phase of the game, etc), but the logistics behind roster growth mean that can't happen without either slowing down the game (making it take longer to reach 4's and 5's, and slowing down farm growth), or a massive overhaul of the game entirely (to prevent problems such as those and roster slot problems).

    I would like to see the return of the occasional 3/5 dual-release. It would be a good way to inject a tiny bit of life into the 3* phase (which is still kinda like the last leg of a prolonged "tutorial" before getting into the meat of the 4's and 5's). And I would do it with popular new characters so they can be used to draw in new characters. I think Shang-Chi would have been a perfect spot for this, doing a 3-star classic comic version. I'm not sure when you would want to do another one. If the Eternals had been bigger, dropping one of them as a 3 alongside the first 5 could have worked, maybe. If Black Knight gets a film and is huge, doing a 5 for the MCU version, and a 3 for the classic Arthurian knight could be fun. I would personally like Ben Reilly to get the 3/5 treatment (a 3-star Scarlet Spider, and a 5-star Sensational Spider-Man, or maybe whatever they're calling the current version? I'm behind on my comics).

    Beyond that you might be able to squeeze out some with some variants. Monica Rambeau with powers will be fun for the MCU, but you could also do a Captain Marvel or Spectrum or Photon version of her from the comics. If they ever get the F4 and Doom/Surfer/Galactus going, a 3-star Surfer alongside a 5-star Reed or Sue could work. I'm kinda surprised we never got SOME version of late-MCU Iron Man (we got Civil War, but no Infinity War or Endgame nanotech), that'd be a good advertising character for the 3-star tier, same maybe with a No Way Home Spider-Man (even though both characters have a 3-star version already).

    I think there's a way to do it, but I think that even if the devs agreed, it's far enough down the priority list that it still might not ever happen. Just the way things are. 
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,789 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phumade said:
    3* are the main economic engine for ftp players.  They drop often enough that their reward trees can be relied for hp/iso and non trivial amt of cp. more 3* would be great to keep up farm yields.  

    While 4*/5* rewards are the tangible results of roster development.  It’s the flood of 2*/3* covers that allow ftp players keep up with the. Buy club wwhales
    Yes but would adding 10/20 or 30 more 3*s improve the farm? I don't think so, it just makes it slower to get all the rewards. If you are only earning 1000 three star drops per year would you rather that diluted around 5, 10, 40 or 100  different characters? Wouldn't you just get better rewards faster the fewer there are?

    I don't want more 3*, but then again I don't want more 4* either. I have characters that have hit 340 and I've never used them or even cared what they do! 

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