Just some complaints

24

Comments

  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    entrailbucket said:
    Competitive MPQ causes burnout.  Why wouldn't it?  It's baked into the design.   If you're competing, you're competing with other players.  To win, you have to beat them.

    When tapping was a thing, you couldn't win a PvE unless you were willing to spend several hours grinding a node for one point.  Plenty of players were willing to do that to win.  If you weren't willing to do that, you'd lose. 

    The bottom line is that if other players are willing to play this game like a work schedule and you aren't, you will lose to them.  That might be right or wrong, but it undeniably *is*, as long as the game remains a competition.

    If PvE becomes noncompetitive, progression-only, rewards will be reduced compared to what the top placement players get now.  Would you be ok with that?  If it stays a competition, then how should they decide who wins?
    I think the core question might actually be: Why is time spent OFF our given schedule worth less than time spent ON? and there's some value in that, worth exploring alternate models at least. I'm not about to claim that my tortuous early scl-10 90 minute clears should have been worth more than an efficient sub-30 minute top level player effort, though in a way they were for an upcoming roster.
    That said, I would urge the OP to look into bracket flips at least, there's a lot less competition there and you can probably place better as long as you clear/grind with some time between.

  • Qazzy
    Qazzy Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    entrailbucket said:
    The bottom line is that if other players are willing to play this game like a work schedule and you aren't, you will lose to them.  That might be right or wrong, but it undeniably *is*, as long as the game remains a competition.

    If it stays a competition, then how should they decide who wins?
    The problem may be that "playing games should be a more flexible thing, rather than requiring scheduling like work"

    And for the alternative way to stays a competition, I had posted on suggestions board, this may be a big work for devs, but it can surely be more flexible to players.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    Qazzy said:
    entrailbucket said:
    The bottom line is that if other players are willing to play this game like a work schedule and you aren't, you will lose to them.  That might be right or wrong, but it undeniably *is*, as long as the game remains a competition.

    If it stays a competition, then how should they decide who wins?
    The problem may be that "playing games should be a more flexible thing, rather than requiring scheduling like work"

    And for the alternative way to stays a competition, I had posted on suggestions board, this may be a big work for devs, but it can surely be more flexible to players.
    It's a good idea, but what you're describing is a completely different game.  They're 8 years in, why would they throw away half the game and rebuild it from scratch now?  Because the current format causes a few players among the top 0.001% to burn out and quit?  That's been happening since day 1.

    I would add -- for most of the players on this board, and the overwhelming majority of players in the game, PvE does not *require* scheduling like work.  I play PvE whenever I want.  You only have to play on a schedule if you want to be competitive.  You're asking them to overhaul the entire system for the benefit of a few hundred players, at most.
  • TheEyeDoctorsWife
    TheEyeDoctorsWife Posts: 829 Critical Contributor
    entrailbucket said:
    Qazzy said:
    entrailbucket said:
    The bottom line is that if other players are willing to play this game like a work schedule and you aren't, you will lose to them.  That might be right or wrong, but it undeniably *is*, as long as the game remains a competition.

    If it stays a competition, then how should they decide who wins?
    The problem may be that "playing games should be a more flexible thing, rather than requiring scheduling like work"

    And for the alternative way to stays a competition, I had posted on suggestions board, this may be a big work for devs, but it can surely be more flexible to players.
    It's a good idea, but what you're describing is a completely different game.  They're 8 years in, why would they throw away half the game and rebuild it from scratch now?  Because the current format causes a few players among the top 0.001% to burn out and quit?  That's been happening since day 1.

    I would add -- for most of the players on this board, and the overwhelming majority of players in the game, PvE does not *require* scheduling like work.  I play PvE whenever I want.  You only have to play on a schedule if you want to be competitive.  You're asking them to overhaul the entire system for the benefit of a few hundred players, at most.
    I love the game because I don’t play against others . However from how I see my placement drop faster than a superhero landing in the last hour the enormous majority play optimally. If you’re ignoring the game 22 hours a day , turning off animations , or following an exact order of node attacks without deviation every PvE you’re playing optimally and not for enjoyment. I prefer enjoyment to speed , there is no middle ground . ( I know someone will post “You can play for both “, so I’m laughing 😂 hysterically in advance now )
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    entrailbucket said:
    Qazzy said:
    entrailbucket said:
    The bottom line is that if other players are willing to play this game like a work schedule and you aren't, you will lose to them.  That might be right or wrong, but it undeniably *is*, as long as the game remains a competition.

    If it stays a competition, then how should they decide who wins?
    The problem may be that "playing games should be a more flexible thing, rather than requiring scheduling like work"

    And for the alternative way to stays a competition, I had posted on suggestions board, this may be a big work for devs, but it can surely be more flexible to players.
    It's a good idea, but what you're describing is a completely different game.  They're 8 years in, why would they throw away half the game and rebuild it from scratch now?  Because the current format causes a few players among the top 0.001% to burn out and quit?  That's been happening since day 1.

    I would add -- for most of the players on this board, and the overwhelming majority of players in the game, PvE does not *require* scheduling like work.  I play PvE whenever I want.  You only have to play on a schedule if you want to be competitive.  You're asking them to overhaul the entire system for the benefit of a few hundred players, at most.
    I love the game because I don’t play against others . However from how I see my placement drop faster than a superhero landing in the last hour the enormous majority play optimally. If you’re ignoring the game 22 hours a day , turning off animations , or following an exact order of node attacks without deviation every PvE you’re playing optimally and not for enjoyment. I prefer enjoyment to speed , there is no middle ground . ( I know someone will post “You can play for both “, so I’m laughing 😂 hysterically in advance now )
    I assume you're talking about a CL10 bracket?  Maybe CL9?  What percentage of MPQ players do you think qualify for (and choose) CL10?  How many players do you think are playing optimally in, say, CL6?

    This is a really common mistake that we all make because the game is built to keep you looking up, at the players ahead of you.  All those players at lower tiers exist.
  • Qazzy
    Qazzy Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    edited January 2022
    entrailbucket said:
    It's a good idea, but what you're describing is a completely different game.  They're 8 years in, why would they throw away half the game and rebuild it from scratch now?  Because the current format causes a few players among the top 0.001% to burn out and quit?  That's been happening since day 1.

    I would add -- for most of the players on this board, and the overwhelming majority of players in the game, PvE does not *require* scheduling like work.  I play PvE whenever I want.  You only have to play on a schedule if you want to be competitive.  You're asking them to overhaul the entire system for the benefit of a few hundred players, at most.
    errr... you do believe there's only a few hundred players cares about this problem, and this can keep showing for years by different players just because the few hundred?
    Not everyone who is dissatisfied is willing to jump out and spend time talking about these things (I endured it myself for almost 8 years before I came out to talk about it, because it was a great burden for me to use English long articles), and everyone’s patience should not be a rationalized reason for the existence of this mechanism.

    Or, you think playing games should  require scheduling like work, rather than being a more flexible thing? Just because "compete"?

    PvE definitely does not *require* scheduling like work, but this mechanism is guiding and even enticing everyone to do so. Shouldn't it be brought up for discussion and should not be amended?
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    My job doesn't have any type of regular schedule, the one scheduling clearing optimally pve nodes is me. Any type of slice doesn't fits me and waiting for brackets usually deprives me from time to eat or sleep.
    So I'm another "second class player" but usually I can manage to be T50, which is a difference when a new 4* is released, also in any sub one mighty token can be earned.
    As long as pve is a competition I cannot aim for a higher rank.
    However that was this game running for 8 years, I don't expect any change or I don't think any change on this system would be benefitial: players have been optimizing their roster for this system through years and that should'nt be changed now.
    However it seems devs are planning new content.
    I hope new content could be like puzzle gauntlet. It should be, because the game already has too many competitions based on pure speed.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    I kind of think that most are in agreement here. The game isn’t perfect as is and has some glaring flaws. Not everyone agrees what the flaws are and, if they do, how to address them. Most flaws, if they are addressed, probably won’t be in changed in a way that satisfies everyone. Changes also annoy people who have developed their roster to maximize to the current system. So while threads like this are important. We shouldn’t expect (hope of course) them to result in meaningful changes. 
  • Qazzy
    Qazzy Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    It's really not easy to make a big change. My main expectation for the change is not to improve the ranking through the adjustment mechanism, but to have more flexible game time.

    In the PVP game, through alternate use of 3h & 8h shields, I can decide when to break the shield and participate in the 3-10 minutes competition within 1-3 hours. This makes the entire PVP less stressful, at least It is not easy to conflict with real life (at most, open a shield for one day and I can still break it any time).

    But for PVE, I can only wait for the moment when the time is up and then rush. This process is actually a bit anxious, and the time that can not be interrupted is a bit long (usually 30-50 minutes*2).

    Long-existing does not mean it is reasonable, and it may be because many people are willing to carry forward with a heavy load, so I can't understand the idea that "Since it has been running for a long time, there is no need to change".

    I sincerely hope that the game mechanics of PVE can be more flexible.
    If no one came up with a better way, I can also help with ideas (as in my post on suggestions).

    I think these mechanisms should be changed. At least many players can more easily plan game time that does not conflict with their lives.
    I’m not a game developer. Maybe they think the game won’t make the game more profitable that even if the burden on players is reduced, so they always do it in a perfunctory way (maybe not so perfunctory but I didn’t see it)
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,794 Chairperson of the Boards
    The ideas and theories about how to make the game different from its current grind vs schedule mentality have been around forever.

    And the devs have shown in the past that they DO notice what's on these forums...

    So, it's been my theory that they CANT change the system that much.  Something about how much it's baked-into the current system... I dunno.  But since they read this stuff (supposedly) and it's been shown that there's a bunch of players interested, I also like to think that there's a whole 'nother game they're slowly working on somewhere.  An MPQ2 or what have you... something where there's a whole new system, and where they've implemented what they've learned from this game so far.

    Have I ever told you that I'm also an optimist?  Lol
  • Qazzy
    Qazzy Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    edited January 2022
    Thanks for that information @HoundofShadow , I really can’t evaluate the relationship between cleaning speed and ranking (and I do value competition results also).

    But after two days of discussion, I am getting more clearly sure that my main expectation should be having more flexible game time, because the disturbed life is my main source of stress, not getting more or less placement rewards. 
    (Although my personality that values the results of competition always makes me want to achieve the best results lol)

    Actually I became a casual player in that event after failing to get up at 4:30 that morning :D
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    They recently changed pve on needeing one clear less. That was a great improvement because players wanted a change.
    Mpq2: not viable and not possible. Mobile games are not pc games, where there is a software that you buy and next year there will be another. 
    Mobile games have their customers and their actualizations, in these new content or new mechanics can be added.
    Only games with huge playerbase like candy crush can afford to make other franchises, still I don't know any mobile gacha game releasing a second part.
    The changes come from dev's hand and it means more resources or effort invested from them.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    If you are not playing competitively, then schedule doesn't apply to you. It applies to  those who are playing for T10. You can grind before you sleep at 11pm or 12am , depending on what time you sleep, and clear after you wake up. So, for your scenario, you don't need to schedule your life around the clock. 

    Pvp is even more flexibile. If you can afford to throw up a 24 hour shield, you can play in any slice.
  • Qazzy
    Qazzy Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    edited January 2022
    hmmm actually I want to play competitively so I try to play around the clock every events, but I will playing casual instead if I missed too many score, and I would be upset at that moment... it’s better to say that I don’t want to continue playing for the time being rather than "playing casual instead", but there is little difference in behavior between the two .
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    HoundofShadow said:
    If you are taking 30 to 50 minutes for each clear and grind, chances are you getting T50, or at best T20 with some luck in SCL 10 pves. The differences between T20 and T50 placement rewards aren't a lot:

    10 hp, 500iso-8, 25 5* shards, 1 4* cover, 25 4* shards. 

    The differences between T50 and T100 placement rewards are:

    10 hp, 500 iso-8,  25 4* shards

    If you really want to focus on getting T10, you need to cut down your clear and grind to 25 minutes each. Don't bother playing competitively if you can't hit this timing because the difference in placement rewards aren't worth your waking up at 4.30am.
    You can pretty easily make top 20 in most flips simply by playing within an hour or two of the slice deadline. Top-10 is harder without sniping as most enter as soon as the flip occurs and still can manage the 25-30 minute clears. Or at least when I look at their roster they all have giant Okoye/iHulk or Apocalypse/Thor. With sniping you are limited to which slice you play (probably only slice 5 at SCL10, Slices 2 to 4 only flip once and the second flip on Slice 1 is still pretty competitive) and risk not making progression. 

    *edit @skittledaddy disputed the point I made here about lower SCLs being less popular that SCL10. Since he runs the Bracket Sheets I will defer to that opinion.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't bracket snipe but I heard that it's easier to get better placements. So, I won't know the ins and outs of bracket sniping.

    You don't need to grind within 10 minutes from closing to get T20. 20-22 minutes grind time is pretty safe to get T10. I've gotten T5/T10 in SCL 10 a few times with this timing. 

    Playing competitively means clearing within 18-25 minutes for T10. Anything more than that will be pretty tight. This standard applies across SCL 7 to SCL 9 too.  As for PvP, you need to spend a lot of hp to get top placements. I'm contended with T50 or T25. I gotten T10 in pvp before but it wasted so much of my hp and I need to schedule around the refresh rate of shield. I did it just for novelty and curiosity sake. And I'll probably do this 1-3 times a year.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm really confused now.  OP has been waking up at 4am and suffering what sounds like an enormous amount of stress, all to place top 50 or so?  I assumed from the tone of this discussion that they were a top 10 player at minimum, and in competition for first place every event.

    The amount of extra rewards gained between t50 and t100, as pointed out by Hound, is extremely low.  OP, you are stressing yourself out and losing sleep over 10HP and 500iso.  Why?
  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 1,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sekilicious said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    If you are taking 30 to 50 minutes for each clear and grind, chances are you getting T50, or at best T20 with some luck in SCL 10 pves. The differences between T20 and T50 placement rewards aren't a lot:

    10 hp, 500iso-8, 25 5* shards, 1 4* cover, 25 4* shards. 

    The differences between T50 and T100 placement rewards are:

    10 hp, 500 iso-8,  25 4* shards

    If you really want to focus on getting T10, you need to cut down your clear and grind to 25 minutes each. Don't bother playing competitively if you can't hit this timing because the difference in placement rewards aren't worth your waking up at 4.30am.
    You can pretty easily make top 20 in most flips simply by playing within an hour or two of the slice deadline. Top-10 is harder without sniping as most enter as soon as the flip occurs and still can manage the 25-30 minute clears. Or at least when I look at their roster they all have giant Okoye/iHulk or Apocalypse/Thor. With sniping you are limited to which slice you play (probably only slice 5 at SCL10, Slices 2 to 4 only flip once and the second flip on Slice 1 is still pretty competitive) and risk not making progression. 

    The SCLs lower than 10 are no where near as busy. Many do not flip at all.
    All slices between CL7 and CL9 flip at least once except 4.7 (Never) and 2.7 (Only Occasionally). There are plenty of flips to be found that are not in CL10.
    1.9 and 5.9 regularly flip three or four times per event. The only CL10 that regularly flips four times is 5.10 (counting the pre-join flip, of course).

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