Daredevil217's 5* Character Ranking and Analysis 2.0 (Updated 06/20/2022)

2456

Comments

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,368 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm about 1 million iso away from champing Apocalypse, BRB, and Kitty. It's good that the three combine to make some meta teams. I'm a little nervous about putting Polaris on defense, but perhaps I am overthinking it. 
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 1,804 Chairperson of the Boards
    When it comes to damage output, Shang is among the best, if not THE best. I read many comparisons to Apocalypse’s damage output, which is impressive, but he’s slower than Shang. Shang works right away boosting match damage, then he can 1-shot targets with his criticals (which rivals Apocalypse). Many times, you can use that placed critical to create another critical. Shang’s red can also be used to create criticals. In a head to head, I bet on Shang in dealing out more damage. In PVE, you can pair Shang with Chavez & Karnak for free criticals. In PVP, he’s easy on defense, but so is Apocalypse. I could be wrong, but that’s my 2 cents. 
  • obikenobi12
    obikenobi12 Posts: 21 Just Dropped In
    I've been finding Shang Chi pairs really well with 4* Valkyrie to generate lots of red via Bounty Hunter (grants 4 red ap) for his Vital Balance. If he takes damage, Valkyrie pumps out attack tiles to make him hit even harder while Shang Chi just restores his HP with Vital Balance and just starts this really fun cycle. Been using it in PVP and PVE to great effect. Doesn't hold terribly well in PvP but sometimes it suprises people. I've thrown in Ronin with those 2 to hopefully get Bounty Hunter to proc because Shang seems to use Vital Balance better than he does Deadly Hands (the AI just places it random it seems and it doesn't even match it......lol)
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,368 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2021
    bbigler said:
    When it comes to damage output, Shang is among the best, if not THE best. I read many comparisons to Apocalypse’s damage output, which is impressive, but he’s slower than Shang. Shang works right away boosting match damage, then he can 1-shot targets with his criticals (which rivals Apocalypse). Many times, you can use that placed critical to create another critical. Shang’s red can also be used to create criticals. In a head to head, I bet on Shang in dealing out more damage. In PVE, you can pair Shang with Chavez & Karnak for free criticals. In PVP, he’s easy on defense, but so is Apocalypse. I could be wrong, but that’s my 2 cents. 
    Potential Damage output I think you are correct but it takes time to get there. Apocalypse is faster because of synergy with 1/2Thor (who can also use the supports to have yellow at the start of the match) and boosts everyone he is with as well as himself. They can manage meta adjacent speed clears for SCL10 PvE. I think only Okoye and iHulk are faster. SC is somewhat slower because he still has to make matches to get the boosts. In addition, Apocalypse and Wanda combine to boost each other as well as their 3rd for PvP. SC boosts himself with a good board. Both are incredible characters, I think ranked appropriately here because Apoc has more 5* and support synergies. But you can make a case for any of the top-9 being ranked differently. 
    If they make a SCL11 or 12 where you need the 200k hits more often then SC will climb in the ranks. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 1,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    Shang-Chi can compete with Apocalypse in terms of raw one-on-one damage output, which really is pretty impressive. 

    But Apocalypse is rated higher because he also boosts the rest of your team, in addition to doing a lot of damage on his own.
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 891 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2021
    Regarding Apocalypse vs. Shang-Chi, two additional thoughts to what @Sekilicious and @entrailbucket had to say (which I agree with): first, regarding speed, SC’s speed needs to factor in the time it takes to plot out matches. That is definitely not insignificant and Apocalypse suffers no similar tax on his speed.

    Second, Apoc has killer health while SC is a little squishy. You might be able to heal him, but you also might not or he can get caught in a cascade that Apoc might survive.

    Both are great. But I, too, would put Apoc ahead of SC. He’s quicker and more versatile. 
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 891 Critical Contributor
    Just a quick note on good mutant partners for Apocalypse: I recommend 5* Colossus for consideration. While they both share an active black, Apocalypse benefits greatly from the reduced match damage and if you chase yellow and are able to get his repeaters out quickly, you will often find the match damage taken down to 1. Additionally, Colossus's Neutralization is an effective work around against Wanda teams. I think it's a pretty solid combo for the current PvP meta. 
    In my game, putting aside boosts, there is no better team than Apocalypse, Colossus, and 5witch. It's almost perfectly synergistic, like a triangle should be.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    First of all, thanks for the love!  

    Second, I tend to rank people somewhat conservatively their first time in the rankings and sort of see where they shake out. So Shang can definitely climb. I agree with the above though that you could make a case for any of the T8 as best in the game and rearrange them with little pushback. I think it ultimately comes down to preference, playstyle and if you are more PVE or PVP driven. 
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 1,804 Chairperson of the Boards
    I also agree with the above comments about Shang vs Apocalypse, I just wanted Shang to get more credit for raw damage output. Perhaps when new great characters come out people will say “Hits almost as hard as Shang”. 
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,368 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2021
    bbigler said:
    I also agree with the above comments about Shang vs Apocalypse, I just wanted Shang to get more credit for raw damage output. Perhaps when new great characters come out people will say “Hits almost as hard as Shang”. 
    Oh I see what you mean. The few mentions of Apoc (Electro for example, or Colossus with match damage) hitting harder than anyone else seem to have been written prior to SC’s release. You are definitely correct that SC with the right board and a little time can hit harder than practically anyone, boosted or not. 
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 905 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2021
    For what it's worth, (when not using boosted characters) my new PVE Pick-3 team of 1/2Thor/SC/Valk is significantly faster than my old go to team of Apoc/5W/5Col.  And takes a lot less health packs.  The only problem is if the other team gets off a big AOE and downs 1/2Thor.

    If it's pick two (again, non-boosted), I bring 1/2Thor/SC.

    Count me as a another "SC is #1" vote, FWIW.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,368 Chairperson of the Boards
    For what it's worth, (when not using boosted characters) my new PVE Pick-3 team of 1/2Thor/SC/Valk is significantly faster than my old go to team of Apoc/5W/5Col.  And takes a lot less health packs.  The only problem is if the other team gets off a big AOE and downs 1/2Thor.

    If it's pick two (again, non-boosted), I bring 1/2Thor/SC.

    Count me as a another "SC is #1" vote, FWIW.
    I can see how SC and 1/2 Thor would be faster than Colossus, Apocalypse, and Wanda. I would consider revising my position if that tandem was faster than Thor’s traditional partners, Apocalypse and Okoye. Not that I would go as far as SC is #1 since he is almost trash tier when it comes to PvP defense. I mean bad the point where it can be difficult to shield hop with SC on offense. 
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 891 Critical Contributor
    For what it's worth, (when not using boosted characters) my new PVE Pick-3 team of 1/2Thor/SC/Valk is significantly faster than my old go to team of Apoc/5W/5Col.  And takes a lot less health packs.  The only problem is if the other team gets off a big AOE and downs 1/2Thor.

    If it's pick two (again, non-boosted), I bring 1/2Thor/SC.

    Count me as a another "SC is #1" vote, FWIW.
    I can see how SC and 1/2 Thor would be faster than Colossus, Apocalypse, and Wanda. I would consider revising my position if that tandem was faster than Thor’s traditional partners, Apocalypse and Okoye. Not that I would go as far as SC is #1 since he is almost trash tier when it comes to PvP defense. I mean bad the point where it can be difficult to shield hop with SC on offense. 
    So I don't agree, @Sekilicious. There are good defensive teams for him (and, generally, in this thread I'm thinking about this without boosting, so SHIELD Sim stuff). Odin/5witch/Shang-Chi is pretty spectacular, and having faced it myself, a team I avoid. It's an excellent offensive team, too. Like everything in this game, it's all in the full roster (meaning slots).

    @LavaManLee, I'm totally on-board with those teams, though I haven't tried the Valkyrie one, I will first thing tomorrow in my PvE grind. Pick-2, 1/2 Thor is my pick to match with him, too. PLUS SUPPORTS.
  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 357 Mover and Shaker
    Love the rankings. It’s a very sound perspective and extremely insightful. 

    I would love to see another set of rankings for top pairs/trios featuring each 5* in the center (or off to the side to stay hidden/passive cycling). 
    As with most of us, I tend to be filling out some of the oldest 5*’s, but lurking their respective character pages can be daunting and dated in search of partners.

    For a game of teams, it would be cool to see this one variable intentionally  highlighted for depth beyond the few paragraphs noted in this thread. 
    Honestly it would just be gravy as you have done a superb job with your guide; but some of the 3*/4*/5* mixed tier teams only get divulged in the very depths of the forums with only one or two posts like hidden gems.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    I mostly only write about what I play (though there is much more theory crafting since boosts) and sadly I usually just speed clear simulator on the last day with something like Polaris/Bill/Kitty- so I don’t explore the full breadth of pick 3 teams available to me. 

    I also don’t really use my 3/4s anymore (when not required) with very few exceptions. 

    If someone else wanted to create a guide like the one you mentioned, I’d love to read it; but honestly won’t he writing it. 
  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 357 Mover and Shaker
    I mostly only write about what I play (though there is much more theory crafting since boosts) and sadly I usually just speed clear simulator on the last day with something like Polaris/Bill/Kitty- so I don’t explore the full breadth of pick 3 teams available to me. 

    I also don’t really use my 3/4s anymore (when not required) with very few exceptions. 

    If someone else wanted to create a guide like the one you mentioned, I’d love to read it; but honestly won’t he writing it. 
    Yeah, let’s not distract the point. Your work here is great. Have to acknowledge that. I visit here often when I champ an oldie.

    On the other subject matter, it’s a big ask, but I wanted to get it out in the ether in case somebody wanted to undertake something so vast. Current example: 5* Hawkeye, 4* Blob, Polaris. Old 5*, new 4* teammates.

    I don’t think I would’ve noticed something like this without @entrailbucket (I believe this is the creditor) pointing it out in one comment when perusing random threads. Amazing team, wish things like this could be aggregated.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 1,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    That team is So. Ridiculous.  I love it.  I hate taking credit for anything, but I think I actually did come up with that idea.  It isn't official until it gets a team name though.


    It sounds like you're looking for something like an aggregated/digested version of the "latest fun team" megathread.  There's all sorts of crazy fun stuff in there... unfortunately it's about 20 miles long and has been running for 6 years.  Someone could dig through it and pull all the teams out but it'd take years. 

    Maybe a "combos/teams" subforum?
  • Jacklag
    Jacklag Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    Back when I begun playing I remember a character ranking list that graded characters in categories, such as PvP, PvE, Offense, Defense, Ease of Use, Versatility and so on. Thus the final grade would be a combination of different grades.

    Daredevil's write-up is so useful not particularly because of the ranking itself (which is pretty subjective) but because of the analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of each character.

    Debating which character is #1 or #2 or #7 is kinda pointless, I think that's what I'm saying
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,696 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thor-Sighclops-SC has been my go-to team for CN and other pick-3 PVE nodes. I found them faster than Thor-BRB-Apocalypse, which is a pleasant surprise. 

    SC just do what SC does best. Thor feeds red, yellow and green, which are all the colours the team need. Sighclops yellow ability ramps up the incredible match damage that SC has. 
    Let’s do some conservative estimates. my SC base red match damage is 1000 x3  = 3000. At 3 blue and 5 combo points, his red damage is 2800 x3 = 8400. Using SC purple, with a single red charge tile and critical tile, he will deal 50k damage! 
    If you have cast Sighclops yellow twice, then SC would have deal 75k dmg! 
    While the damage above is comparable to the nukes from Apocalypse, the difference is that apocalypse protect tiles eventually fills the board, and Thor cannot destroy the tiles to fill up red and green ap. In CN, which the enemy health is much greater, I think Team SC has an edge. 
    Now the argument against team SC is that it takes longer to play, because SC play is more manual. I agree… but I think with practice, destroying and placing tiles can also be fast. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 1,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    If the rankings were just based on the CL10 challenge node, they'd probably look pretty different.  That's only one factor in these, though.

    Anyway I agree with the poster who said that the actual number ranking is not the ultimate point of these.  I think there has to be a number put on them because people expect that, but in reality, characters can be moved around quite a bit based on personal preference and which game mode you're playing. 

    The point of this list is the character write-ups.