Reflections after being in 5* land for 6 months.

24

Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2021
    CP acquisition depends more on the 4* and 5* farm than anything to do with PvE and PvP. If you are getting between 3 and 4 LL pulls a day it is because the farm is healthy. 

    With that being said, where do you get covers and shards from to run your 4* and 5* farm? It doesn't fall from the sky. Occasionally, it does via login reward but you still need to play a node to get it.      B)  You still need to play pve and pvp to run your farm. Try not playing pve and pvp and see whether your farm runs smoothly. It doesn't. How competitively and how much you play affect the rate of your cp/lt acquisitions.

    As for grinding, based on what I infer from posts over the years, it means playing more than 20-30 minutes a day to get all the rewards in pves and pvps. Anything more than that is a grind. Because a game shouldn't be a job and players should be able to get all the rewards even if they don't play a lot.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    CP acquisition depends more on the 4* and 5* farm than anything to do with PvE and PvP. If you are getting between 3 and 4 LL pulls a day it is because the farm is healthy. 

    With that being said, where do you get covers and shards from to run your 4* and 5* farm? It doesn't fall from the sky. Occasionally, it does via login reward but you still need to play a node to get it.  B)  You still need to play pve and pvp to run your farm. Try not playing pve and pvp and see whether your farm runs smoothly. It doesn't. How competitively and how much you play affect the rate of your cp/lt acquisitions.

    As for grinding, based on what I infer from posts over the years, it means playing more than 20-30 minutes a day to get all the rewards in pves and pvps. Anything more than that is a grind. Because a game shouldn't be a job and players should be able to get all the rewards even if they don't play a lot.
    I’m not sure where in this discussion you got that I said you don’t actually have to play this game to get 5*s but good for you for tinykitty all over my point to make yours seem more legitimate. SMH. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    Sekilicious said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    CP acquisition depends more on the 4* and 5* farm than anything to do with PvE and PvP. If you are getting between 3 and 4 LL pulls a day it is because the farm is healthy. 

    With that being said, where do you get covers and shards from to run your 4* and 5* farm? It doesn't fall from the sky. Occasionally, it does via login reward but you still need to play a node to get it.  B)  You still need to play pve and pvp to run your farm. Try not playing pve and pvp and see whether your farm runs smoothly. It doesn't. How competitively and how much you play affect the rate of your cp/lt acquisitions.

    As for grinding, based on what I infer from posts over the years, it means playing more than 20-30 minutes a day to get all the rewards in pves and pvps. Anything more than that is a grind. Because a game shouldn't be a job and players should be able to get all the rewards even if they don't play a lot.
    I’m not sure where in this discussion you got that I said you don’t actually have to play this game to get 5*s but good for you for tinykitty all over my point to make yours seem more legitimate. SMH. 

    It is just Hound being Hound. Every now and then he has to look down from his Ivory Tower to remind the forum that players are lazy and entitled with their hands outstretched (and sometimes they are!) - he doesn't mean anything by it (normally).

    To elaborate.. he often will say “players think…” without calling out anyone specific.

    The reality is that these players rarely if ever actually exist, and no one is making the points he claims they are (or are at least not nearly as extreme as he makes them out to be). Since he doesn’t name anyone specific and rather groups of players that don’t actually exist (at least not in any community I’m part of), you realize he’s just fighting the same straw man of his own construction (I’ve called this out before). Once you realize that odd obsession for what it is (“Hound being Hound”) you can filter through and appreciate a lot of his more quality points and posts that aren’t just arguing with his shadow. He has a lot of insight into the game and is a pretty good historian as well. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Sekilicious said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    CP acquisition depends more on the 4* and 5* farm than anything to do with PvE and PvP. If you are getting between 3 and 4 LL pulls a day it is because the farm is healthy. 

    With that being said, where do you get covers and shards from to run your 4* and 5* farm? It doesn't fall from the sky. Occasionally, it does via login reward but you still need to play a node to get it.  B)  You still need to play pve and pvp to run your farm. Try not playing pve and pvp and see whether your farm runs smoothly. It doesn't. How competitively and how much you play affect the rate of your cp/lt acquisitions.

    As for grinding, based on what I infer from posts over the years, it means playing more than 20-30 minutes a day to get all the rewards in pves and pvps. Anything more than that is a grind. Because a game shouldn't be a job and players should be able to get all the rewards even if they don't play a lot.
    I’m not sure where in this discussion you got that I said you don’t actually have to play this game to get 5*s but good for you for tinykitty all over my point to make yours seem more legitimate. SMH. 

    It is just Hound being Hound. Every now and then he has to look down from his Ivory Tower to remind the forum that players are lazy and entitled with their hands outstretched (and sometimes they are!) - he doesn't mean anything by it (normally).

    To elaborate.. he often will say “players think…” without calling out anyone specific.

    The reality is that these players rarely if ever actually exist, and no one is making the points he claims they are (or are at least not nearly as extreme as he makes them out to be). Since he doesn’t name anyone specific and rather groups of players that don’t actually exist (at least not in any community I’m part of), you realize he’s just fighting the same straw man of his own construction (I’ve called this out before). Once you realize that odd obsession for what it is (“Hound being Hound”) you can filter through and appreciate a lot of his more quality points and posts that aren’t just arguing with his shadow. He has a lot of insight into the game and is a pretty good historian as well. 

    Agreed on all points. He arrived with a bit of a chip on his shoulder at the forums but has become a valuable member. Oh - Hi Hound! *waves* We are just talking about you, don't mind us!
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It seems like putting smiley doesn't help a lot. I'm pretty blunt with my statement so I throw in smiley to counteract the bluntness. 

    Anyway, I'm looking at what you said from a logical point of view, and I threw in rhetorical question. It seems like it backfired.

    Basically, you seem to break down CP acquistion via two methods: farming and playing pves/pvps. So, what I interpret is that farming contributes a bigger weightage to cp/LT acquisition, rather than pve/pvp. I disagree with that because without playing pves/pvps, your farming won't run. Therefore, playing pves/pvps is a direct contribution factor to cp acquisition rate, rather than farming because having a good farm is the result of playing pves/pvps regularly. 

    As for naming players, my impression is that it's not right to name players specifically and I also don't track down what people wrote. I simply look at the content of the message and reply most of the time.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yepyep said:
    Sekilicious said:
    CP acquisition depends more on the 4* and 5* farm than anything to do with PvE and PvP. If you are getting between 3 and 4 LL pulls a day it is because the farm is healthy. 
    Exactly. Same with HP. Though one (well, me, to be specific) can still get behind bc of boost-use and need to buy 2-3 times a yr a Logan's Loonies when things are on sale (which, to me, seems a reasonable payment to the D3 company for the fun game they keep developing).

    This game is about process, not result. @Vhailorx you know this, of all people. You've been here forever; I've learned more from  you than almost anyone else here. (The guys that built the 4* and 5* character-rankings pages take the win for best teachers in the game, at least for me.) I've gone through many threads where it pretty quickly became an excerise in liking all your posts because they were so useful. [flattery mode now off.]

    More personally, this game has helped me with structure, with process. I deal with ADHD pretty dramatically (you'd identify it within a day or two of working with me; I'm >50). And the slowness of this game has forced me to work through addiction-adjacent anxiety, day-to-day. I routinely don't open covers until a day or two later when it will yield me more prizes (see, gernally, the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment). I'll hoard a bit, LLs or ISO or CPs. This is pretty therapeutic for me! (Though constantly having to meet deadlines def sucks, for me it's good, low-consequence practice at being on time for stuff: the VERY basic life skill I just cannot cannot cannot execute consistently in my life. It's really good for me to be on time for my grind, even if it's just this stupid game on my phone.)

    The game is not about being flushed in 550s; it's no longer a challenge then. That's a billionaire in an antique shop, or brothel, or wine shop, or whatever. Not a game, then, but rather an exercise in hegemony.


    Your flattery is accepted, yepyep! But I think we may be losing the thread of the discussion a little bit.
    I definitely agree that mpq is marathon rather than a sprint and that roster progress is slow and measured in months or years.
    In this thread, OP was expressing frustration with the lack of options and slow progress of his/her 5* bench after 6 months. 
    Phumade responded by saying something like: "don't worry, progress takes time in MPQ, keep at it and your 5* bench will develop [organically]."  That is how I read that first response at least, bit I am open to the idea that I made a mistake.
    And my response was that I completely agree that 3* and 4* rosters develop organically.  So if a player just steadily plays the game, their 3* and 4* benches will fill out without the player needing to make make many choices or optimize their use of many resources. But I don't think that is really true for 5* rosters. My contention is  that 5* rosters basically require absurd levels or spending, or at least some optimization to fill out in a meaningful (I.e. baby champ or better) way. 
    If you just play the game, even if you play hard (e.g. max prog in pve every event) and open everything the moment you get it you will end up with a bench full of 5-9 cover 5*s that do very little for you. Even pure f2p 5* players like hound and roadwarrior need to track their resources and target specific stores and LT pools judiciously to stay on top of the process. 
    I guess my purpose with this post was to give the OP a bit of counter-messaging: there definitely is hope, but you will achieve the stated desire of a more diverse 5* bench MUCH faster if you apply some basic optimization strategies.
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    9RMetal said:
    So here's the thing, it's been 6 months since I started my 5* land journey and although 5 stars are amazing, I still missing using 4* more strategic and the OP 3*, after analyzing the full roster now, I think the disparity between 3* and 4* now its pretty ridiculous, I love 3* for been feeders for 4*, I wish MPQ started adding more 3* just for that, PVP feature more 4*events, what do you guys i think about how much characters and teams have evolved and these feeders disparity?

    I've been playing since Valentines day 2018. Give or take.  

    Played SCL7 pve to progression for a long time, and as high PVP as I could. My float point before getting hit lots in champed 4star land was something like 650 points, so I would get annoyed at doing a few matches and almost always bet getting hit and struggling to shield at 800ish points.

    Eventually I champed my first 5star, kitty. She had a terrible spread and I desperately wanted her pink to be at 5 covers. I forget who my next 5star champ was, but it was likely ProfX or Storm / Hela, then BRB and others. Just by having some usable a bit meta 5stars it made my pvp a lot easier and the float point increased by about 100 points.  

    Slowly I have been raising my PVE SCL. I was 8 for a long time, then made the move to 9. Then figured out timings for me to place within top 20 and top 10 and just this week i've been stepping into SCL10. Trying my best, but ultimately it's got more competition than SCL9. The 5star shards almost make it worth it.  

    I think I have 32 5stars champed at the moment, highest level being Wanda at 469. 4star land is my favourite tier. I almost wish every character was as good as Polaris, Sabretooth and the other few 4s that are well designed.   

    There aren't enough 3s to feed all the 4s right now. And I don't see D3 making any more 3stars as those covers are far too easy to get due to shards and other rewards.  

    D3 employed the weekly 5star boost system to buy themselves more time with the playerbase. By now we are probably used to it or getting bored of seeing the same boosted combinations every pvp event in pick2 format. 3rd event in a row for me that I will be using Wanda and JJ. Yay.

    Maybe D3 need to boost 3s more when they are the featured character in PVP. Bring them a bit closer to the health of 5stars if they are max champed. 

    Regardless, I think D3 really need to focus on making all the 5stars viable in some way. They rebalanced Ghostrider for halloween and I think it came out as a success? Do the same with other 5s that don't get used. More health, less AP costs on skills, more damages, passives and or effects. They have access to data, as per the forum competitions they are doing. They know how often supports and characters are picked. I wouldn't be surprised if Ironman (5star), Cap (5star non Infinity war) and a few others were the least used 5stars.
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think there is a problem with how fat the 4* roster is now, and I think it would help if D3 inserted a new 1*, 2*, and 3* each year to help lower the bloat in 4* and 5*.

    Right now the 4* roster is so fat that it can actually stop your progression if you decide to stay there for an extended period of time.

    4* bloat was a problem last year and it is only going to get worse. 5* is soon to be there as well with worse implications. Right now there are roughly 60 5* characters that are out of reach. As soon as a 5* leaves LL they fall into a void.

    Shard rewards are too small and disparate to give any meaningful advancement. At least with a 4* you can target them and finish them within a few months. A 5* could be targeted for a long time and never be finished.

    Maybe the problem could be alleviated if 5* shards were give in more tiers or they gave more from draws.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wait for 6* to be released next year.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Wait for 6* to be released next year.
    So you think there's a developer roadmap too?  Even if its a secret one hidden from the playerbase?

    Over the many years, I have been truly surprised by their ability to innovate and develop new ways to migrate players.

    Does anyone remember adventure time puzzle quest and how that game evolved and concluded?

    Just to be clear.  I believe that the devs do have a roadmap on how the game will evolve and they do implement major system changes to address what they believe to be major structural issues for the playerbase.  These outcomes may or maynot be what we anticipate, expected or wanted, but its clear to me that it does happen with consistency.  So its only speculation backed up with historical examples.

    This is why I say, that the 5* tier will be organically achievable by most players.  Does that mean a casual player to 900 will have a full 5* bench?  Who knows, that really depends on the devs roadmap.   But a dedicated consistent player will have a pathway forward.

    However, consider the possibility that MPQ is relegated to End Of Life and they decide to ramp down development.  Adventure time PQ is an instructive example and I'm equally confident that they will make the end stage content available to even casual 500 point players.  How that happens, Who knows?

    Trust the process and Enjoy the ride.

    Most may not ever have to worry about how "Competitive MPQ" is played but most will have the ability to enjoy the Character diversity and interplay in all the various tiers.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    With boosted 5* week, the challenge in SCL 10 has dropped to almost no challenge. Things should be pretty stagnant for top players. To make 5* accessible to more players, either they ramp up 5* release from 4/5/4/5/4/5 to 5/5/4/5/5/4, or they release 6*. It's the only logical conclusion. Alternatively, they might want to be like our neighbour, GI Joe. This is their message:
    Hello Team Joe and Cobra Players –
    On December 1, 2021, G.I. Joe: War on Cobra will be removed from all corresponding app storefronts (Apple and Google Play).
    What does this mean for you?
    We have provided the following timeline with information to help players understand the schedule and functionality of the game in the future. If you have not yet downloaded the game, you will want to download the game now to experience the game before removal.

    Timeline:

    October 15:

    Ability to make in-app purchases removed.
    All events, characters, and store items will be made available for all players.
    Players will be able to enjoy an unlocked game experience until December 10, 2021.
    December 1:

    Game will no longer be available for download.
    December 10:

    Social channels will be removed and shut down.
    Servers will be shut down and game will no longer be playable.
    For any purchases made via the App Store and Google Play in the last 30 days (on or after September 15, 2021), please visit HERE for how to request a refund from their store(s).

    We want to thank all the players and the G.I. Joe community for being a part of the experience.  It was an incredible journey to create an expansive battlefield where our favorite Joe and Cobra units could be put on display and fight for victory.  We hope you enjoy the rest of your time with the game.

    Thank you!
    The G.I. Joe: War on Cobra Team

    This is the other alternative that will make 5* more accessible.


  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
     

    Anyway, I'm looking at what you said from a logical point of view, and I threw in rhetorical question. 


    Actually, you took what I said out of context and then interpreted it in the most basic way possible. Then you doubled down in this comment. But yeah, I will play along. You win again! Hurray! Silly me for thinking all you need is a 4* farm to unlock the best rewards in the game. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways. 
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm not sure what their plan is, obviously they keep it close to the chest.

    The next logical step would be some sort of Prestige levelling, where a player "starts" over and has selected covers returned at levels over time with enhanced xp gains and rewards.

    I would guess it is that or introducing 6*s. There will be a tipping point and it is approaching fairly quickly.

    If there are 150 4*s peoples farms will slow down eventually.
  • MegaBee
    MegaBee Posts: 1,040 Chairperson of the Boards
    People have been predicting 6-star characters for a while now. I just don't see it.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    We already have 6 star characters. 

    Apocalypse, Okoye, Beta Ray Bill, SW, etc are easily a full star level above the rest of the tier.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think they will introduce a super Mighty token that defaults with 4* and offers 5* shards or some other intermediate reward.

    Maybe they have shield levels beyond 10.  Keep in mind we actually started the game at Shield level 7.  I think they wildly underestimated how people advance through the levels and didn't leave themselves enough top end room.  I don't think Agents of Shield is considered cannon, so maybe our assumptions that Shield 10 are no longer cannon as well.

    In the same vein.  Legendary tokens are over 7 years old and are acquired at a far different pace than the early years.  So I wouldn't be surprised if LT get retired and replaced with 2 or even 3 more token tiers.  Of course, I would expect that existing stockpiles are honored at current rates.  I'll leave it to the game economist to figure out the details.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phumade said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Wait for 6* to be released next year.
    So you think there's a developer roadmap too?  Even if its a secret one hidden from the playerbase?

    Over the many years, I have been truly surprised by their ability to innovate and develop new ways to migrate players.

    Does anyone remember adventure time puzzle quest and how that game evolved and concluded?

    Just to be clear.  I believe that the devs do have a roadmap on how the game will evolve and they do implement major system changes to address what they believe to be major structural issues for the playerbase.  These outcomes may or maynot be what we anticipate, expected or wanted, but its clear to me that it does happen with consistency.  So its only speculation backed up with historical examples.

    This is why I say, that the 5* tier will be organically achievable by most players.  Does that mean a casual player to 900 will have a full 5* bench?  Who knows, that really depends on the devs roadmap.   But a dedicated consistent player will have a pathway forward.

    However, consider the possibility that MPQ is relegated to End Of Life and they decide to ramp down development.  Adventure time PQ is an instructive example and I'm equally confident that they will make the end stage content available to even casual 500 point players.  How that happens, Who knows?

    Trust the process and Enjoy the ride.

    Most may not ever have to worry about how "Competitive MPQ" is played but most will have the ability to enjoy the Character diversity and interplay in all the various tiers.
    A casual player goes to 900? Is that really true? I don't always go to 900 so I must be practically sleepwalking.

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