DO NOT UPDATE UNTIL COALITION EVENT IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scrounger

critman said:

Scrounger said:

But I've got an important edit to this solution. The 1,000 gold was for people in platinum. In bronze, the gold reward for reaching 10 ribbons was 500 gold. I don't know what it was for silver and gold tiers (probably less than 1,000 for silver and perhaps 1,000 for gold). I think the developers should vary the amount of gold compensation based on the tier of the player.

I don't think this is fair to newbies! You're suggesting that compensation be graded by how long you've been playing? Just because that's how the bug worked, doesn't mean that's how the compensation should work.

You make a fair point: compensation doesn't need to work exactly how the bug worked. But what is the purpose of the compensation? I believe it's about fairness. People in platinum who did update missed out on 1,000 gold; most of the people who didn't update received 1,000 gold. Hence the desire to award those who updated 1,000 gold as compensation. (Again, not perfect in many ways, including that there will be some who didn't update who did not in fact receive the elevated gold rewards.)

So if the point of compensation is to achieve fairness -- by making the situation equal for those who didn't update and those who did -- then the compensation for those who updated should be based on the compensation received by those who didn't update. I think this is especially true in bronze. Most bronze players aren't in competitive coalitions, most aren't on a discord server created by one of the competitive families of teams, and most don't check these forums. So, unsurprisingly, they are among the last to update the game. I bet the vast majority of bronze players didn't even know about the update.

In any event, this discussion illuminates what a pickle the devs have created for themselves through their own mistakes. Perfect fairness would give those who updated the gold they missed out on by updating, but it would also give that gold to those who didn't update but never received the gold reward. Perfect fairness would give 2 ribbons only to those who didn't update, who won their first match on the bottom node, and who actually achieved the protector objective as written. Perfect fairness would require the devs to look at the tiers of players, whether they updated and when, whether they received the increased gold reward and the amount of that reward, whether they lost out on 2 ribbons because of the bug on the bottom node, and so on. I doubt that the devs can even get all this information, and even if they could, doing so would take so long and require so much work that it's not really feasible.

I'm not even sure how easy it is for them to see when people updated and whether they received elevated gold rewards. If it's difficult for them to tell that, then they should just give everyone substantial compensation, vow to never run an event when doing so correctly requires that folks install an update created at the 11th hour, and call it a day.

LoboX01

Schmara said:

@Bil the shift in tone and elevated level of passion is easily explained by the transition from initial disbelief at the rumor to the shock at its confirmation. 

Everything you and your teammates are doing now is simply damage control. 

I think the main takeaway (for me) is that perhaps your teammates feel like they cannot compete on a level playing field? That’s very sad indeed and I hope that whomever is lurking knows that there are other alternatives with friendly and helpful people… yes! Even on the top ten leaderboard. 

Damage control to what? To what you think and believe? Sure thing...

I guess your precious, friendly, helpful, non-toxic group is doing exactly the same level of bug reporting and testing as to the group you are referring to right? I am sure it does 

Persil

Enigma said:

My guess is that there will be a complimentary mythic for everyone, maybe a pack or something, plus an apology and that'll be it. everyone gets the same compensation, no one is unfairly rewarded, and it would save them the hassle of figuring out who did what and when, especially post-event.

This was half of people is actually unfairly rewarded becasue those who got 1000 Gold, will still get the compensation, so they'll still be 1000 Gold ahead of others.

The only fair way is to give now 1000 Gold to all those who didn't get it, and only those (and, as mentioned before, give ribons to those who played the broken matches, although this won't probably happen).

Tezzeret

critman said:

Bil said:

i can't Help thinking that the several guilt-creating statements in this whole thread are not going to Make anyone feel better about a situation that IS already unpleasant for the whole (or most of the?) community.

So many disingenuous statements flying around... @jtwood is going to be kicking himself that he missed this!

Dude I was thinking the same thing!.
 I wish the vice mayor of Value town, jtwoods was here to weigh in!

bk1234

Julie71 said:

I wasn't going to comment but now i feel as I must.   the instant I saw 1000 of gold for a prize i knew something was amiss.   so I am kinda baffled as to why anyone though that was a real possibility.  and we have to remember taking advantage of a mistake is not very sportsmen like.  but I am not here to judge anyone.  so please be kind to the developers of this game they are human and mistakes happen.  

100% agree. I thought it was a visual error. 

bk1234

Julie71 said:

critman said:

Julie71 said:

I wasn't going to comment but now i feel as I must.   the instant I saw 1000 of gold for a prize i knew something was amiss.   so I am kinda baffled as to why anyone though that was a real possibility.  and we have to remember taking advantage of a mistake is not very sportsmen like.  but I am not here to judge anyone.  so please be kind to the developers of this game they are human and mistakes happen.  

I think we long term players can often misunderstand the experience of newer players. *We* know how small the prizes are usually and how large these are in comparison, we know that huge bugs like this are all too common, we're pretty sure that they aren't going to run an especially generous event as a one off for Halloween without announcing it first on the forum, but I think you are very, very harsh to judge the behaviour new players who lack our experience as "taking advantage" and "not very sportsmen like".

I was particularly struck by this kind of attitude recently in this thread, where many expert players just assumed it was obvious to everyone knew that TOTP was for expert players, despite the total lack of any signalling of this fact to beginners to the game.

Schmara said:

the apparent collusion between the developers and a particular player group.

For me, this is the biggest thing to come out of this whole affair. To learn that employees are chumming up with players in one particular group who are in direct competition for resources with other groups in the game does not sit well with me at all.

It's been suggested to me by an insider that the best way of solving this problem would be to get a representative from Oktagon/D3 in the Discord of every different player group, but I couldn't agree less. I shouldn't have to sacrifice my privacy for representation.

I'd like to get people's opinions on this, whether they're a member of the in-group, or one of the other player groups which Oktagon/D3 obviously consider less important, and I would certainly like Oktagon/D3 to make a statement about this.

I can definitely see your point about new players.
as for [redacted bk] group.   if our discord was an exclusive club I could see your point but we are not.  we are open to the public.  I encourage anyone to come join the server.  

While the server in question is open to the public, it is moderated by leaders of that group of coalitions and who gets to stay there and what they get to say is controlled by those leaders and their own community standards. 

It’s not exactly a neutral community, and many channels are not open to the public including the most important channels about updates and game information. 

souki12

When I saw the rewards for the very first time, I knew it must have been a mistake. 6k of crystals for a single event? Come on. I can't believe that any other veteran player would think otherwise.

It indeed turned out to be a mistake. A mistake that was supposed to be corrected by a forced update that was not that much forced at first. Another mistake, and a huge one. So be it, s**t happens. Long-term players know it's not the first one and hardly the last one.

I willingly decided to update before playing the event knowing I would lose the first fat reward. I knew what I was getting into and I don't regret it. I don't feel to be treated unfairly or betrayed by the devs or those that did not update, whether it was on purpose or not. I'm not seeking any compensation for myself nor punishment for those that exploited the devs mistake.

The only reasonable solution is to leave things as they are. We all learned a lesson. The devs learned two or three. Let's hope it's to their benefit.

Zethish

Assuming that a fair distribution is not technically possible, I don't mind a blanket free 1000 gold to everyone, whether they updated or not.
More gold is far superior to less gold 

Nyarlathotep

Zethish said:

Assuming that a fair distribution is not technically possible, I don't mind a blanket free 1000 gold to everyone, whether they updated or not.
More gold is far superior to less gold 

Technically not possible? 
So so want us to think that they are not able to send a simple query to their database and filter out those players who recently got 1k crystals added to their account and send out gifts to all but those filtered accounts. 

That's a thing a junior coder can do in about 2 minutes.

The question is not, are they able to do it. 
Its about do they want to treat us fair, and are they willing to hand out even more currency because they messed up, or are they going the other route. 

Since a simple rollback would do the trick, too, I suppose. 

Bil

At this point, wouldn't a rollback mean that any event played or reward earned since last friday would be Lost for every player?

I suppose that would mean a lot of Time wasted and a lot of currency Lost ... Which might Also be frustrating for the most. 

Machine

Bil said:

At this point, wouldn't a rollback mean that any event played or reward earned since last friday would be Lost for every player?

I suppose that would mean a lot of Time wasted and a lot of currency Lost ... Which might Also be frustrating for the most. 

I agree. I advocated for a roll back Saturday. Now, we're 4 days ahead and the point of no return for a rollback has long been passed. They missed that window of opportunity.

Tremayne

Bil said:

At this point, wouldn't a rollback mean that any event played or reward earned since last friday would be Lost for every player?

I suppose that would mean a lot of Time wasted and a lot of currency Lost ... Which might Also be frustrating for the most. 

Exactly this. I have gotten a few mythics this weekend and I have made screenshots of all of them plus a general update of my library, so I can document my ownership should a rollback be performed (which I think would be a catastrophe at this time).

bk1234

[MOD MIC ON] A reminder, if you have questions about moderator actions, you may message a moderator or community manager, however you cannot discuss it in a thread. Also you may not discuss players who cannot respond on the forums. 

Any posts of this nature will be removed and future posts of this nature will result in warnings with points. [BK]

KrizzB

bk1234 said:

[MOD MIC ON] A reminder, if you have questions about moderator actions, you may message a moderator or community manager, however you cannot discuss it in a thread. Also you may not discuss players who cannot respond on the forums. 

Any posts of this nature will be removed and future posts of this nature will result in warnings with points. [BK]

With all due respect, in any other circumstance this would be a proper way of handling things, but in this specific instance the actions you are taking and talking about is at the very core of the discussions had in this thread and as such should be exempt from any and all moderative actions by your person.

If you feel this thread should need this kind of moderation I will have to respectfully ask you to let an Oktagon representative handle any further actions towards this thread.

Thank you.

LoboX01

To me it is pretty simple, just two rules:

7. Treat your fellow users kindly. We will not tolerate any of the following;

• Trolling, or posting something just to get a rise out of someone.
• Flaming, or insulting / bashing / harassing another user.
• Posting offensive material. This includes anything that could be considered racially, religiously, or sexually demeaning or insulting. Posting a link to material of this nature is equally forbidden.
• Offensive or profane forum user names.
• Posting threatening material of any kind.
• Referencing specific player names, Alliances, and Coalitions, for instance, in order to question in-game actions, or accuse of cheating (this includes nicknames and acronyms)

10. Spreading misinformation as, or impersonating, a D3 Go! employee is strictly prohibited. The same is true for an employee from any of our partnered development studios (such as Demiurge, Oktagon, Emerald City Games, etc), as well as for any of our volunteer moderators.

Do we really need more reasoning here?

Edhmage

How appropriate, I did not address anyone specifically nor did I question any moderators themselves. I was only postulating as to the nature of the discussion in its totality and the growing concerns its very existence and discussion and debate there of would cause.

The immediate response and defense there of of the previously noted actions shows that this type of mindset is indeed a harmful one.

Now as to you bk1234, I have nothing against you for doing your job as a moderator. In fact I myself have never had an issue, but I'm not on here as much as I used to be so my experiences are limited. 

Please understand that for a given system to be healthy there must be a healthy give and take of both ideals and views from all sides. If there is as was previously suggested some non zero amount of potentially purposeful or unintentional inside information sharing, then as a moderator you should be against that as it not only sets a dangerous precedent going forward which harms the community as a whole.

Consider this my olive branch to help the greater community to understand that which may ultimately have never even happened to be moved past in a more constructive manner.

bk1234

I like Rule 9

Edhmage

Oh I agree but as to #7, should we not as a player base have the ability to raise red flags as to the goings on of coalitions that again have had if not currently have tight ties to individuals that may or may not work with the devs of this wonderful game?

If not then what is to stop any coalition from searching out and building a relationship with an inside person which over time may or may not produce a perceived advantage just by the virtue of casual discussions or generic conversations that to the untrained or uninitiated may contain information that when pieced together could give an unfair advantage to the given coalition.

Total transparency and openness should be the goal to combat situations exactly like the aforementioned speculations from even being a topic of discussion which ultimately provides no useful discourse in regards to the game and the parts there of.

But in the end we are but individuals who by the very nature of the relationship between game devs and their player base means that sometimes we question and sometimes we hear nothing but the silence of the void.

bk1234

Edhmage said:

Oh I agree but as to #7, should we not as a player base have the ability to raise red flags as to the goings on of coalitions that again have had if not currently have tight ties to individuals that may or may not work with the devs of this wonderful game?

If not then what is to stop any coalition from searching out and building a relationship with an inside person which over time may or may not produce a perceived advantage just by the virtue of casual discussions or generic conversations that to the untrained or uninitiated may contain information that when pieced together could give an unfair advantage to the given coalition.

Total transparency and openness should be the goal to combat situations exactly like the aforementioned speculations from even being a topic of discussion which ultimately provides no useful discourse in regards to the game and the parts there of.

But in the end we are but individuals who by the very nature of the relationship between game devs and their player base means that sometimes we question and sometimes we hear nothing but the silence of the void.

All players who have the right to post on the forum should have the right to do this as long as they are following forum rules while they are doing it. 

Edhmage

Then questioning the potential ethics of and/or the seriousness of insider sharing of ingame changes, updates, errors and the ramifications of the early heads up when the nature of the game is a resource based one should not only be encouraged but also actively welcomed.

This would show a good faith effort on the part of the devs/mods to have an open and honest conversation between themselves and the player base.