shardmas then milestonemas.....

245

Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    I think we are looking at things from different angle.

    The frequency and difficulty of the crash will affect the amount of shards. Also, favourite shards are worth more than a LT.
    So, you have to deduct a certain % from that. If they were to give favourite shard, you have to deduct even further. Because the ability to choose where you put those shards is more precious.

    The max number of 5* shards given for T1 placement is 150, and you need to unlock SR120 to achieve that. If not, you are stuck with SCL 9 which gives you 50 in progression and 50 for T1 placement.

    If there are 6 5* crashes a month, that's 600 5* favourite shards. Realistically speaking, they are not going to be so generous. You need to pull 200 LTs or Classics to gain 600 shards. No player can accumulate 200 such pulls every month. Probably whales can accumulate 200 pulls a month or 6-7 pulls a day.

    If you expect them to give 75-100 5* favourite shards per crash running every 5 days and players with 6-8 covers of that 5* can win one node to get that amount of shards, you will be in for a huge huge disappointment. 

    Edit: 

    Another way of looking at things is , how much effort do average players need to spend to gain 250 specific 5* shards in SCL 10 pves? About 45-60 mins each day or 2hr15 min to 3 hours per event. How many nodes do they need to hit to achieve that? 81 nodes for a 3 days event.

    Then, ask yourself, after considering the above, what's the probability of the devs giving you 600 5* favourite shards for spending a total of 20-25 minutes or clearing 6 nodes? To me, it's impossible.

  • Ptahhotep
    Ptahhotep Posts: 428 Mover and Shaker
    A 5* crash could be diluted in several ways:
    1. Run it less often, say once a month.
    2. Have a preliminary qualifying node. Perhaps the 4* that feeds the 5* could be required and the reward could be a support token.
    3. The 4* crash rewards a Legendary token that guarantees at least a 4* cover, but not a specific one. Perhaps a new type of token that gives a guaranteed 5* cover and is only available through the crash could be the reward.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I think we are looking at things from different angle.

    The frequency and difficulty of the crash will affect the amount of shards. Also, favourite shards are worth more than a LT.
    So, you have to deduct a certain % from that. If they were to give favourite shard, you have to deduct even further. Because the ability to choose where you put those shards is more precious.

    The max number of 5* shards given for T1 placement is 150, and you need to unlock SR120 to achieve that. If not, you are stuck with SCL 9 which gives you 50 in progression and 50 for T1 placement.

    If there are 6 5* crashes a month, that's 600 5* favourite shards. Realistically speaking, they are not going to be so generous. You need to pull 200 LTs or Classics to gain 600 shards. No player can accumulate 200 such pulls every month. Probably whales can accumulate 200 pulls a month or 6-7 pulls a day.

    If you expect them to give 75-100 5* favourite shards per crash running every 5 days and players with 6-8 covers of that 5* can win one node to get that amount of shards, you will be in for a huge huge disappointment. 

    Edit: 

    Another way of looking at things is , how much effort do average players need to spend to gain 250 specific 5* shards in SCL 10 pves? About 45-60 mins each day or 2hr15 min to 3 hours per event. How many nodes do they need to hit to achieve that? 81 nodes for a 3 days event.

    Then, ask yourself, after considering the above, what's the probability of the devs giving you 600 5* favourite shards for spending a total of 20-25 minutes or clearing 6 nodes? To me, it's impossible.

    These things tend to be a wish list to generate ideas to combat dilution. Just because we say what we want doesn’t mean anyone expects any of this to happen though we may hope for it. 

    Besides. Your math is off. It assumes that specific shards you can choose are equal to shards the developer chooses for you. 600 shards are not all going to be Okoye. She (and other shards you want) will come around once every 61 cycles, more since they keep adding to the game. The developers happily give 2100 shards a month for 5*s of their choice if you can reach progression in SCL10.  It is just on a cycle so they do not actively choose, similar to a crash. 600 shards with the caveat you need have a partially covered and leveled 5* isn’t necessarily as far fetched as you imagine.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The dev always use effort/reward and other metric to guide them on how much rewards to give out.

    An average players need to spend 4hr 30 min to 6 hours to get 2 sets of 250 specific 5* shards, that is not chosen by the them.

    When BH was around, there's a 5% chance of getting 5* cover of a random colour. Using 1:7, it means that every ~140 pull nets you one 5* cover. With the introduction of shards where players are given choices, the number of pulls needed is 167, which incurred a 19.3% premium.

    Also, when 5* cover were replaced with 500 5*  shards, cp and hp were traded for the ability to choose.

    Your average players can't even accumulate 90 LTs a day or 100 5* shards
    So, gaining 600 5* favourite shards, assuming 6 crashes a month, is impossible. However, if it happens once a month, 100 5* favourite shards may be possible.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thank you for ignoring both my points. Your math is still facetious because you only chose assumptions that illustrate your point, ignoring those that contradict it. If you want to compare the 5* BH you need to include in your assessment that the pie-in-the-sky-crash is not for a specific 5* that you want. There are currently 62 5*s, which means there is a 1.6% chance any particular 5* you might want to target. On a rotation, so it is guaranteed about 1.5 times a year. More as characters are released. 

    But the main point is that the people on this forum tend to be veterans. They are well aware that the developers only address concerns on this forum when they are overwhelmingly negative, like shardocalypse or UI gate. They would very likely add as many 5* shards as we wanted if it added to the profitability of the game. 

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    I brought up those examples such as number of specific 5* shards that you can get from placement and progression in pves and pvps to illustrate effort to reward ratio. If you want to get T1 in pvp scl 10, you need to play really hard. If you want to get 250 5* specific shards, you need to spend 4-6 hours and go through 81 nodes to get them in scl 10 pve. Most of these are facts except for time spent. However, I use average players as a guide to illustrate 45-60 minutes play time in scl 10.

    Likewise, if a 5* crash node gives shards for that required 5*, you are highly unlikely to get 100 or even 250 shards of them because the effort to reward ratio is out of the norm. However, if they make it happens once a month or make it really difficult, then it's possible you get 100-250 shards of that specific 5*.

    However, if the crash gives favourite 5* shards instead, the number of shards given will be even lower.

    I brought up BH to illustrate the fact that 1 5* cover is not the same as 500 shards when you do a tradeoff. BH gives bonus cover of 5* of your choice but you can't choose the colour. When you can, tradeoff will be made.

    I'm not saying that 5* clash won't happen. I'm just saying that if you expect  to get 100-250 specific or favourite 5* shards by clearing one node in 5 minutes and provided that the crash happens every 5 days, then you will be very disappointed.

    The most generous moment was when the dev gave 125 Rescue shards 4 times over a few months. That more or less tells you what their limit is.



  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Most of these are facts except for time spent. 



    Facts do not speak for themselves. The ones you use and the ones you ignore determine the outcome, resulting in a biased interpretation. Since you are only reiterating your own interpretation without meaningfully addressing mine I will interpret that as you are not interested in alternative viewpoints to gain a meaningful understanding of how others see the game, only in winning the argument. So congratulations. You win. Have a blessed day. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2021
    I'm using existing data to support my point of view. Data which you can verify for yourself. Those are the places where you can find 5* shards. It's also a fact that f2p uses effort to reward ratio to determine the reward levels.

    If those examples are still not clear enough, let me bring up what happened when shards were introduced to pves, pvps and champ rewards: cps and hps were reduced or traded off. Players were angry but did the dev "returned" those cps or hps? The answer is no.

    If any one expects to gain 100-150 5* per crash 6 times a month without any tradeoff, then you will be in for a surprise again. I don't live in a fantasy world where I think the dev will be generous. You can ask those players how often they are disappointed when they expect dev to be generous. It happens very frequently.


    Here's some food for thought if you still think the dev will give you lots of 5* shards for completing a single node:

    Why hasn't the dev put 5* shards in pvp, shield sim and pvp season in progression rewards? 
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,236 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm using existing data to support my point of view. Data which you can verify for yourself. Those are the places where you can find 5* shards. It's also a fact that f2p uses effort to reward ratio to determine the reward levels.


     
    Deadpool Daily has always been overly generous reward wise when comparing effort/reward there vs PvE/PvP. Just note that we get 2 CP a day for 1 simple battle. You don't earn anywhere near 2 CP for 1 battle in PvE/PvP rewards. The same goes for earning an LT in a 1v1 crash. Even the ISO earned is more generous than PvE/PVP battles.
    So it's at least reasonable to think that *if* they added a 5* crash that the rewards would be similarly generous.
    They don't necessarily have to reward shards of a favorited 5*. They could instead award shards of the 5* character being used in the crash. That's more in line with the LT reward for the 4* crash since you don't know what that LT will turn out to be.
    KGB
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:


    Why hasn't the dev put 5* shards in pvp, shield sim and pvp season in progression rewards? 

    An excellent question actually because it is well overdue, especially in Season progression where there is quite a large gap that could be filled with *something*. Why should PvP be the ugly step sister? Would it not drive engagement? Sounds like a good idea!
  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 492 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2021
    Sekilicious said:
    They are well aware that the developers only address concerns on this forum when they are overwhelmingly negative, like shardocalypse or UI gate.

    Not that they ever really addressed UI gate: they pushed through increasingly disliked changes with no explanation or remorse and much later tossed us a couple stopgap fixes after the damage was already done. They knew they didn't need to and most of us are stuck in their gameplay loop.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes, you get 2cp for a simple battle. However, no on starts with the entire 2*, 3* and 4* rostered on day 1 of their play day. That's 177 roster slots as of now. So, they have to play hard or spend hard to have a decent probability of getting the 2 cp rewards. The process to open up that simple battle consistently takes at least 12 months of hard work and spending. Alternatively, they can allow players whose Shield Ranking is 160-180 to play that node. This will reduce the number of players getting too many 5* shards consistently. 


    I don't think it's difficult for them to add 5* shards in pvp progression rewards. The reality we have to face is:

    1) how much cps and hps are the players willing to trade to get 50-100 5* shards as progression rewards in pvp scl 10? 

    2) can you stomach 110-120 wins or 1500-1600 points to get 50-100 5* shards in PvP SCL 10? 



  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    It would be nice if they added more milestones.

    I also wouldn't mind personalized rewards or more options suited to your specific roster.

    With the increased amount of characters in the game, i wish they would implement something along the lines of, you select the slice you want to play in, then you select the rewards you want to get during progression in the event.
    So right now they pick for you, example ; Venom Bomb your progression rewards is daken, sabertooh and ultron. Lets say they have 2 other options on the table, magneto , prof x , onslaught or gamora , yondu , adam warlock

    I think if they gave players more options to players to choose what rewards they want to chase, it gives more incentive to play and it makes the player more engaged knowing they are making meaningful roster progress. I skip events all the time because the rewards don't help me progress what I'm chasing. Then they could have more specific deals to sell you and you may be more enticed to buy them.

    Food for thought.
  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 506 Critical Contributor
    DyingLegend said:
    It would be nice if they added more milestones.

    When milestones were first released they intended to have event specific ones like Halloween, anniversary, Xmas, etc. But it was bugged and instead of fixing it they just abandoned it, like the Support pve event or Supports altogether. 
  • turbomoose
    turbomoose Posts: 806 Critical Contributor
    Yes I’d quite like some more milestones, the ones I have at the moment are months away from being achieved 500k matches will take a long time!!

     I really don’t see why they can’t finish off all the remaining feeders 

    think there’s about 15-20 left to do 
  • MadScientist
    MadScientist Posts: 317 Mover and Shaker
    turbomoose said:

    think there’s about 15-20 left to do 
    There are 63 5-star characters (including Sersi) of which 47 have a feeder. So 16 are left to go. If they keep up the 4/5/4/5/... release cycle the feeders will never catch up unless there is some change to the reward structure.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think we need to look at the history of feeders. 

    Back then it was approximately once per month with classic 4* as feeders. After that feeders became irregular and they were reserved for special occasions. Because they think that they were releasing feeders too quickly. Then, I think there was a mix of newest and classic 4* as feeders for a while. When shardmas rolled around two years ago, they rolled out feeders for all non-latest 5* at a discount. Players got angry and they were "forced" to give the full shards. After that, we don't have 4* feeders for a while and they finally decided to use latest 4* as feeders, it seems.

    If there's a takeway, it got to be they have zero intention to let all non-latest 5* have feeders quickly without any tradeoff. Unfortunately, their plan backfired and now they are letting feeders drip slowly and somewhat predictably. 

    So, I think both parties still have bad taste left in their mouth over shardmas. For the above reasons, feeders will never catch up with 5* release, unless they shutdown MPQ or they release 6*.


  • MadScientist
    MadScientist Posts: 317 Mover and Shaker
    Maybe they introcude dual feeders like they did with some 3-stars? That way they could close the gap and stop at, say, 13 unfed 5-stars (the ones released in the last 12 months).
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Currently, only 16 5* (including 3 latest + Sersi) are unfed. Historically, latest 5* never had feeder but Captain Marvel was an exception. 

    The problem is not about the execution. It's about the intention. When they did a livestream 1 or 2 years back, a lot of players were asking about feeders. And I think the dev didn't want to answer it. Something need to change for the worst from the players pov in order to have the tap for feeders opened up.

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