***** Ultron (Age of Ultron) *****

Sekilicious

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

Does the non reduced damage mean opposing powers only cannot modify damage , or is it also included as another Knull/ Apoc that ignores protect tiles as well? That’s a big difference. 

I think it is worded to mean both but yeah, I agree. If it only means powers then BRB/Polaris are still very potent in the current meta. If it is both then he replaces Polaris in PvP perhaps.

dianetics

The way it reads would be the same as “true damage” if you know what that means.
it would ignore protect tiles and abilities that reduce damage.

*edit

this only happens if there are a certain number of attack protect or strike tiles on the board

GrimSkald

JHawkInc said:

That's basically Ultron Prime.

Not Boss Ultron, the one seen in "Avengers vs Ultron" with the dropping bomb mechanic.

The other one, that we see in nodes in story missions sometimes, like in Strange Sights in the sub where Ultron Drones have taken over with the Doombots.

Blue (Hive Mind) is basically the same, but it stops making tiles and starts buffing them when a threshold is reached, and doesn't have the Stun Immunity passive.

Black (Gravitational Force) is basically the same, but it's cheaper, creates one tile, that tile is fortified, and presumably has a better stun and AP destruction at max covers.

Red (Energy Beams) is completely different. Ultron Prime does team damage. This version's red works better with his blue, and the overall game meta (with people like Wanda and Colossus mitigating damage).


Here's hoping for some comic-based artwork! Or at least a costume (that doesn't cost $75...) in the near future.

I noted the similarity, I can't imagine that's a coincidence.  He's basically a playable version of Ultron Prime who also has some soft counters to the current meta but no immunity to stun.

His numbers will tell if he's any good, I'd say.

entrailbucket

I wouldn't compare this guy to Polaris...she's way, way better than he is.  (She's better than most of the 5*, barring health and match damage). 

His tile cloning passive is straight-up worse than her tile creation passive in almost every case, and his stun power is significantly worse in every case (unless it's like a 12-turn stun, and it's not).


How good he is is going to depend *very* heavily on how much damage that red power does.  I have a feeling it's going to be bad, because I have a feeling they're going to overrate the "ignores damage reduction" part of it.

Just make a guy who ignores damage reduction on everything: his match damage and all of his powers.  It'll be ok, I promise.

TheRiddler

HoundofShadow said:

This character's abilities at a quick glance are underwhelming. The only interesting ability is red, which is a new ability in the game. It smells like anti-5Witch and 5PX.

His red ability will receive the immunity from power damage reduction with 3 or 4 friendly sap tiles. And it looks like it can create 5 strike tiles. Damage looks to between 18k-20k

Didn't Ronan and Odin both also have that same "low damage" tag and at 7/8 AP cost for their Red powers? Both of them only do 10k damage. I would be very surprised if this character does 20k reduction immune damage for the same cost with a low damage tag.

Sekilicious

entrailbucket said:

I wouldn't compare this guy to Polaris...she's way, way better than he is.  (She's better than most of the 5*, barring health and match damage). 

His tile cloning passive is straight-up worse than her tile creation passive in almost every case, and his stun power is significantly worse in every case (unless it's like a 12-turn stun, and it's not).


How good he is is going to depend *very* heavily on how much damage that red power does.  I have a feeling it's going to be bad, because I have a feeling they're going to overrate the "ignores damage reduction" part of it.

Just make a guy who ignores damage reduction on everything: his match damage and all of his powers.  It'll be ok, I promise.

He won’t be good on his own. He will need a damage booster, but all three of the main ones in the 5* tier will work. Switch probably won’t because of the low damage tag.

Polaris’s low health is pretty significant.

entrailbucket

I didn't think about running him with Okoye/Apocalypse (although I should have, because every team includes one of them). 

I wonder what the rules are about their boosts.  Will the base damage ignore damage reduction and the boost be reduced?  Or will the base + boost all ignore damage reduction?  Maybe we don't know yet because the effect is new.

TheRiddler

I have alot of questions about the character.

The Blue power. What does it do if there are no special tiles on the board? It doesn't say anything about creating one if there are none. It says converts a tile adjacent to one into one.... what if there are none? Also its only creating or improving 1 per turn. For this to be worth anything that 1 tile is gonna have to be significant... but it says low strength in the description. This thing is gonna have to be +400 or more strength to be decent. In comparison sake BRB creates 4 protects that are nearly 200 strength in the beginning of the match and Kitty improves up to 5 tiles by +600 each turn.

The Black power. Seems straight forward. It says a low-turn countdown and that doesn't change so that has to already be low like 2 turns. It does a stun and fortifies with more covers. A fortified 2-turn tile isn't that bad. And it looks like it destroys 4-5 AP in the targets strongest color each turn. Not bad. In PVP here though it isn't AI proof as the stun and AP reduction are based on the target.

The Red power. All depends on the numbers. It says deals low damage. We have seen in this game that can be as low as 1k. It also creates what looks like 4-5 strike tiles of low strength. The damage and strikes get improved. But how much? I said it earlier we have other recent releases that had red attacks with similar cost and also have secondary functions and those do about 10k damage at champ level. The damage of this attack can't get reduced if there are x number of special tiles on the board. Thats good. But only if the damage output is decent otherwise its not worth the setup.

So who do you run with this character?

Kitty is an obvious choice. She boosts tiles and can create protects/attack tiles. But here she doesn't put them out quickly. Which is why you often see her with Grocket, Polaris and BRB because you get those boosted tiles going quicker from the start. So it seems like you have better options in a pick 2. In a pick 3 it makes more sense.

BRB is an obvious choice. You have the special tiles to work with right off the bat. The black and red powers don't conflict. You still have better options here like Kitty, Apocalypse, Polaris etc. But this seemingly makes sense.

Knull is an obvious choice. They seemingly both help each other with the special tiles as Knull passively creates and this one replicates or boosts to get the other powers rolling. Black is the only shared power color and this characters black is much better than Knull's anyways. But my thing here is where is the damage? In a pick 2 this isn't doing enough damage quick enough. In a pick 3 yeah makes sense.

Apocalypse? I don't know why you would want to fire this characters powers on Red and Black over Apocalypse. Alot of better partners IMO.

Okoye? The only reason there is to boost his Red. And then you are needing those special tiles so likely needing to fire his red power twice to get that effect. Alot of better partners IMO.

Wanda, Colossus or Shang-Chi? None of them make the tiles he needs for 2 of his powers. With Colossus you are gonna want his black over this one. With Shang-Chi you are gonna want his red over this one.

Carnage and Ronan might make sense but once again I don't see enough damage being done quick enough.

What teams are you seeing?

TheRiddler

He is also likely to tank over Okoye unless you have a much higher leveled one.

HoundofShadow

They usually seem to have higher total damage when all conditions are met. For Carbage, it's about 14k. Apocalypse ~16k, Deadpool~16k, Ronan ~ 15k. Odin's one is pretty low because players are given a choice and it can destroy enemy aps in any of the 7 ap pools, which gives some flexibility, rather than a fixed ap destruction in enemy's strongest ap. His healing and damage reduction might also affect his numbers somewhat.If Odin's repeater is randomly placed and ap destruction is limited to enemy's strongest ap, I believe his damage will be slightly higher.

So, I would revise this character's number and put it at 13-14k. After adding all 5 or 10 strike tiles, it will put the damage at ~16k and ~18k respectively.  Of course, all these are guesses based on current limited data. 

Borstock

Are....are any of these powers good?

Anon

Borstock said:

Are....are any of these powers good?

I'm waiting for numbers but so far the only thing catching my eye is the match damage.

Tiger_Wong

Borstock said:

Are....are any of these powers good?

No. It’s a horrible thing to be able to make strikes/attack tiles/protects passively and improve them passively. 

It’s also bad to stun, destroy AP and do it on a color other than blue. 

And of course who in their right mind would want a damage dealer that can’t be reduced? That’s like….. the worst thing ever. 

You know what? Don’t bother waiting for the numbers. We already got this character figured out. 

Borstock

Tiger_Wong said:

Borstock said:

Are....are any of these powers good?

No. It’s a horrible thing to be able to make strikes/attack tiles/protects passively and improve them passively. 

It’s also bad to stun, destroy AP and do it on a color other than blue. 

And of course who in their right mind would want a damage dealer that can’t be reduced? That’s like….. the worst thing ever. 

You know what? Don’t bother waiting for the numbers. We already got this character figured out. 

I'm sure you thought all of that was oh so clever, but I think it's a fair question. Every one of these powers is done far better by other characters. Barring shocking numbers that fly in the face of recent pre-release nerf trends, this character looks horrendous and boring.

wymtime

TheRiddler said:

I have alot of questions about the character.

The Blue power. What does it do if there are no special tiles on the board? It doesn't say anything about creating one if there are none. It says converts a tile adjacent to one into one.... what if there are none? Also its only creating or improving 1 per turn. For this to be worth anything that 1 tile is gonna have to be significant... but it says low strength in the description. This thing is gonna have to be +400 or more strength to be decent. In comparison sake BRB creates 4 protects that are nearly 200 strength in the beginning of the match and Kitty improves up to 5 tiles by +600 each turn.

The Black power. Seems straight forward. It says a low-turn countdown and that doesn't change so that has to already be low like 2 turns. It does a stun and fortifies with more covers. A fortified 2-turn tile isn't that bad. And it looks like it destroys 4-5 AP in the targets strongest color each turn. Not bad. In PVP here though it isn't AI proof as the stun and AP reduction are based on the target.

The Red power. All depends on the numbers. It says deals low damage. We have seen in this game that can be as low as 1k. It also creates what looks like 4-5 strike tiles of low strength. The damage and strikes get improved. But how much? I said it earlier we have other recent releases that had red attacks with similar cost and also have secondary functions and those do about 10k damage at champ level. The damage of this attack can't get reduced if there are x number of special tiles on the board. Thats good. But only if the damage output is decent otherwise its not worth the setup.

So who do you run with this character?

Kitty is an obvious choice. She boosts tiles and can create protects/attack tiles. But here she doesn't put them out quickly. Which is why you often see her with Grocket, Polaris and BRB because you get those boosted tiles going quicker from the start. So it seems like you have better options in a pick 2. In a pick 3 it makes more sense.

BRB is an obvious choice. You have the special tiles to work with right off the bat. The black and red powers don't conflict. You still have better options here like Kitty, Apocalypse, Polaris etc. But this seemingly makes sense.

Knull is an obvious choice. They seemingly both help each other with the special tiles as Knull passively creates and this one replicates or boosts to get the other powers rolling. Black is the only shared power color and this characters black is much better than Knull's anyways. But my thing here is where is the damage? In a pick 2 this isn't doing enough damage quick enough. In a pick 3 yeah makes sense.

Apocalypse? I don't know why you would want to fire this characters powers on Red and Black over Apocalypse. Alot of better partners IMO.

Okoye? The only reason there is to boost his Red. And then you are needing those special tiles so likely needing to fire his red power twice to get that effect. Alot of better partners IMO.

Wanda, Colossus or Shang-Chi? None of them make the tiles he needs for 2 of his powers. With Colossus you are gonna want his black over this one. With Shang-Chi you are gonna want his red over this one.

Carnage and Ronan might make sense but once again I don't see enough damage being done quick enough.

What teams are you seeing?

I think the better question will be which 5* will he be buffed with.  If he has another 5* that can provide a special tile he can be very good in pick 2 PVP.  

1/2 health DD will get extra strike tiles quickly.  

Electro yellow is cheep and gets the strike tile rolling.

Carnage will become much better with this character especially buffing tiles.  

Basically if this character has another 5* that will produce special tiles quickly they will be good to go.

Elementeo

By the way this looks we must be getting zemo

Srheer0

Tony_Foot said:

captainheath said:

Add this to Odin and Shang Chi in a month.  Might be a really great trio to target.  All three have unique mechanics.

I haven’t seen a single Odin in the game since his pvp event.

I will pull for Shang, this release and then the next. I was going to go for Odin but I’ve literally seen no one use him. I think that is quite telling?

I've only seen single cover Odins on my alt account in pvp. Not seen a single one on my main account.  

It's likely moreso that the other 2 Latests feel like duds.  

Shang-chi, Odin and this character cover three different playstyles and I would be happy champing those 3 at once. Just need the patience to hoard for another 6-8 weeks.  

I like the sound of this character. Just need to see the numbers.

ThaRoadWarrior

Elementeo said:

By the way this looks we must be getting zemo

I've given up trying to guess, but I'd much rather see Zemo than Ultron personally. Still waiting for the numbers, but it wasn't that long ago that we got Knull who is a big bag of nothing for the most part with a reasonably similar setup.

TheRiddler

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Elementeo said:

By the way this looks we must be getting zemo

I've given up trying to guess, but I'd much rather see Zemo than Ultron personally. Still waiting for the numbers, but it wasn't that long ago that we got Knull who is a big bag of nothing for the most part with a reasonably similar setup.

I was thinking the same thing with Knull in mind. People got all excited about the perma damage from his passives only to see them do "low damage" numbers in the 1-2k range. I hardly ever see him in PVP unless he is boosted and this is a character with 100k+ HP.

I'm anxiously waiting to see more about this character because I will be pulling for Shang-Chi and this character is gonna be tied to him for better or worse because I will be waiting to see if I want to also target Odin or the next one to round out the group.

But at least IMO as of late with the 5s its been more about mechanics that make these characters top tier and not as much the numbers. Colossus with his match damage mechanics. Wanda with nearly all her skills that really scale. Shang-Chi with his combos, board control and crit damage.

So I'm not holding out much hope for the numbers to push this character over the top. Especially when they are already described as low damage in the teaser. I hope I'm wrong because I'm gonna be getting them either way.

entrailbucket

Often, the first time they do a new mechanic, they're not quite sure how to value it.  Sometimes they overrate what it's worth and sometimes they underrate it.  (As an exercise, compare "ignores protect tiles" as a mechanic through the years).

The "low" damage description in there makes me tend to think they're overrating the mechanic in this case, but I'd be happy to be surprised! 

Also we will need to see how that power interacts with power boosters.  Since the boosters' rise to dominance, every AOE or multi-hit power has had its damage heavily discounted, because the devs know that every team now includes a power booster.