A plea to the devs

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Comments

  • AnonAnon Posts: 1,253 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah matches against PX seem to go either really well, or really bad. There's really no in between. He seems to have more "things went to hell really quickly" potential than any other character.
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    Beating px is quite simple in that it’s really match 4 defending.  By that I mean keep your matches to the top third to minimize match4 opps.  

    Don’t get me wrong px can lopsided super fast, but the strategy makes a real and distinctive change in the win lose rates.
  • CannibalqueenCannibalqueen Posts: 144 Tile Toppler
    edited 24 February 2021, 04:43
    I tend to see a weird thing where around 800, I suddenly get a slew of easy teams to beat.
    like today in Cage, I was using Britty because of Kitty’s natural advantages there.  And I was seeing a little Hulkoye,  mostly other Britty teams, but plenty of variety.  But then a lot of times around 800, it’s like I suddenly get a bunch of easy matches.  

    I have all baby 5* champs.  Does this happen to you guys too?

    edit: I should add easy matches that are suddenly worth a lot more points than they should be. Are these what people mean by ‘bakers’?
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 849 Critical Contributor
    I tend to see a weird thing where around 800, I suddenly get a slew of easy teams to beat.
    like today in Cage, I was using Britty because of Kitty’s natural advantages there.  And I was seeing a little Hulkoye,  mostly other Britty teams, but plenty of variety.  But then a lot of times around 800, it’s like I suddenly get a bunch of easy matches.  

    I have all baby 5* champs.  Does this happen to you guys too?

    Yes. When I break 800 I tend to see 4* rosters. Not sure what MMR machinations allow for that.
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,390 Chairperson of the Boards
    I tend to see a weird thing where around 800, I suddenly get a slew of easy teams to beat.
    like today in Cage, I was using Britty because of Kitty’s natural advantages there.  And I was seeing a little Hulkoye,  mostly other Britty teams, but plenty of variety.  But then a lot of times around 800, it’s like I suddenly get a bunch of easy matches.  

    I have all baby 5* champs.  Does this happen to you guys too?

    Yes. When I break 800 I tend to see 4* rosters. Not sure what MMR machinations allow for that.

    And as a 4* player when I break 800 is when I tend to get lots of hits from dual 5* baby champs. I can't queue any up (thank goodness) but I have to quickly jump from 800 to 900 and raise a shield or else I will be dropped back below 800 pronto.
    I think 800 is breaking MMR at least in slice 5.
    KGB
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 849 Critical Contributor
    edited 24 February 2021, 06:06
    KGB said:
    I tend to see a weird thing where around 800, I suddenly get a slew of easy teams to beat.
    like today in Cage, I was using Britty because of Kitty’s natural advantages there.  And I was seeing a little Hulkoye,  mostly other Britty teams, but plenty of variety.  But then a lot of times around 800, it’s like I suddenly get a bunch of easy matches.  

    I have all baby 5* champs.  Does this happen to you guys too?

    Yes. When I break 800 I tend to see 4* rosters. Not sure what MMR machinations allow for that.

    And as a 4* player when I break 800 is when I tend to get lots of hits from dual 5* baby champs. I can't queue any up (thank goodness) but I have to quickly jump from 800 to 900 and raise a shield or else I will be dropped back below 800 pronto.
    I think 800 is breaking MMR at least in slice 5.
    KGB
    I go either slice 2 or 4, and MMR tends to break post-800. Wonder if it's a similar story across the slices.

    Well, if nothing else, it allows me to use Thanos in PvP beyond the seed teams, and give Thorpocalypse/Profslaught the slightest of breathers.
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 4,144 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 24 February 2021, 06:28
    You want higher points, jump to 1, 3, 4. You can easily hit 900-1000 without a lot of retals, probably a couple or none, subjected to when you climb and who you use. However, your placement will suffer greatly. Placement at best is top 100. 

    Edit: you can hit 1000 even in slice 2 or 5, but timing is really important. You will get 3-4 defend losses simultaneously if you are unlucky.

  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 24 February 2021, 10:40
    KGB said:
    I tend to see a weird thing where around 800, I suddenly get a slew of easy teams to beat.
    like today in Cage, I was using Britty because of Kitty’s natural advantages there.  And I was seeing a little Hulkoye,  mostly other Britty teams, but plenty of variety.  But then a lot of times around 800, it’s like I suddenly get a bunch of easy matches.  

    I have all baby 5* champs.  Does this happen to you guys too?

    Yes. When I break 800 I tend to see 4* rosters. Not sure what MMR machinations allow for that.

    And as a 4* player when I break 800 is when I tend to get lots of hits from dual 5* baby champs. I can't queue any up (thank goodness) but I have to quickly jump from 800 to 900 and raise a shield or else I will be dropped back below 800 pronto.
    I think 800 is breaking MMR at least in slice 5.
    KGB
    I go either slice 2 or 4, and MMR tends to break post-800. Wonder if it's a similar story across the slices.

    Well, if nothing else, it allows me to use Thanos in PvP beyond the seed teams, and give Thorpocalypse/Profslaught the slightest of breathers.
    This is exactly my point.  Because you feel confident beating these teams your willing to use a diversified roster.  

    The game would be better if you always felt comfortable running a diverse char set.  At least through 1300 so people can have fun reaching 1200.  Adjusting the mmr to different point expectations would go along way to matching expectations to reality
    ( consider this.  I would happily play 4* through 1200 to get a wide diverse play exp before hitting big A teams to first shield and hopping out.)

    its only when your going for top 5% placement  or better should you feel compelled to use your best teams.

    yes I firmly believe you gotta be able to beat a big okie, but only if your competing for top tier play.  If your over 2000 expect people to come take your points etc.
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,390 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 24 February 2021, 14:12
    Phumade said:
    KGB said:
    I tend to see a weird thing where around 800, I suddenly get a slew of easy teams to beat.
    like today in Cage, I was using Britty because of Kitty’s natural advantages there.  And I was seeing a little Hulkoye,  mostly other Britty teams, but plenty of variety.  But then a lot of times around 800, it’s like I suddenly get a bunch of easy matches.  

    I have all baby 5* champs.  Does this happen to you guys too?

    Yes. When I break 800 I tend to see 4* rosters. Not sure what MMR machinations allow for that.

    And as a 4* player when I break 800 is when I tend to get lots of hits from dual 5* baby champs. I can't queue any up (thank goodness) but I have to quickly jump from 800 to 900 and raise a shield or else I will be dropped back below 800 pronto.
    I think 800 is breaking MMR at least in slice 5.
    KGB
    I go either slice 2 or 4, and MMR tends to break post-800. Wonder if it's a similar story across the slices.

    Well, if nothing else, it allows me to use Thanos in PvP beyond the seed teams, and give Thorpocalypse/Profslaught the slightest of breathers.
    The game would be better if you always felt comfortable running a diverse char set.  At least through 1300 so people can have fun reaching 1200.  Adjusting the mmr to different point expectations would go along way to matching expectations to reality
    ( consider this.  I would happily play 4* through 1200 to get a wide diverse play exp before hitting big A teams to first shield and hopping out.)

    I hate to tell you but you would not find wide/diverse play in 4* land. It's almost all Polaris/Grocket (or she's with Carnage or Medusa or the occasional counter team with Sabretooth). You have to play a team that can beat that and that's mostly mirror matches or you hunt for underleveled 5* teams in the 360 range or boosted 4* who are fodder for Polaris.
    Anyway, your idea of opening up MMR to 1200 (or 1000) won't really work because everyone would simply club baby seals (ie rosters 1 level below) all the way. So I'd be clubbing 3* teams only and being clubbed by 5* baby champs only. It would frustrate players to no end to be constantly being hit by rosters they can't retaliate against while no one would actually play against teams their own levels if they could queue rosters 1 level below.
    A possible solution would be to lock out 5* characters entirely until you had crossed say 650 points. That would force even whales to use 4* and below up to 650 points at which point 5* would become available to use. That at least allows some variety of roster at low point levels and one could chase wins by simply remaining under 650 points and playing 4* and below characters.
    KGB
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    I hate to tell you but you would not find wide/diverse play in 4* land. It's almost all Polaris/Grocket (or she's with Carnage or Medusa or the occasional counter team with Sabretooth). You have to play a team that can beat that and that's mostly mirror matches or you hunt for underleveled 5* teams in the 360 range or boosted 4* who are fodder for Polaris.
    Anyway, your idea of opening up MMR to 1200 (or 1000) won't really work because everyone would simply club baby seals (ie rosters 1 level below) all the way. So I'd be clubbing 3* teams only and being clubbed by 5* baby champs only. It would frustrate players to no end to be constantly being hit by rosters they can't retaliate against while no one would actually play against teams their own levels if they could queue rosters 1 level below.

    A possible solution would be to lock out 5* characters entirely until you had crossed say 650 points. That would force even whales to use 4* and below up to 650 points at which point 5* would become available to use. That at least allows some variety of roster at low point levels and one could chase wins by simply remaining under 650 points and playing 4* and below characters.
    KGB
    1.  Remember it’s supposed to be a mix of easy teams (75%) and 25% harder teams presumably worth points.  So yes.  The system is designed to have easy teams for low points with harder 5* teams to “break” through.  The idea is that players are making an active choice to go for placements vs.  they just want to get to 1200 and be done.

    2.  Lot of different approaches to how to bifurcate the matchmaking rules.  The modified elo system guarantees that just playing matches below 1000 builds points.  Honestly the easiest point fix would be to use the same k factor as sim and there would be no issues on getting to 1200.
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,390 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Phumade - But at 75/25, it's trivial to hit the skip button a couple times and get one of the 75% easier matches. Who would ever fight one the 25% harder ones? The skip system would have to progressively reduce the 75/25 ratio depending on how many matches in a row you won (or fought a weaker team) in order to force you to at least sometimes match up against an equal or better opponent.
    Shield Sim is set too low. I get to 1200 fighting nothing but 3* teams who have zero chance to win against me even in a retal match. It doesn't become difficult to queue opponents till around 1700 or so. The dev's almost certainly set 800 as the MMR break point to make the 900 (4* cover) and above rewards hard to get. I doubt they want more players getting them even easier.
    KGB
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    @Phumade - But at 75/25, it's trivial to hit the skip button a couple times and get one of the 75% easier matches. Who would ever fight one the 25% harder ones? The skip system would have to progressively reduce the 75/25 ratio depending on how many matches in a row you won (or fought a weaker team) in order to force you to at least sometimes match up against an equal or better opponent.
    Shield Sim is set too low. I get to 1200 fighting nothing but 3* teams who have zero chance to win against me even in a retal match. It doesn't become difficult to queue opponents till around 1700 or so. The dev's almost certainly set 800 as the MMR break point to make the 900 (4* cover) and above rewards hard to get. I doubt they want more players getting them even easier.
    KGB
    As the easy matches become 4 pters, the hard matches are worth 40-50.  So once your over 1000,  you have to select harder targets to cross 1200 and then see open mmr.

    keep in mind mmr doesn’t have to be linked to scoring, or simply said.  Keep the 75% matches easy 4 pots,  while occasionally presenting a higher pointvalue  a team

    the rewards can be spaced as appropriate I honestly don’t think people ends point will change. Since most people are inherently lazy, they will still just do 500 900 etc and done but have a fun time doing it,

    the key point is a reversal of policy to present easy matches to a certain point then move to std mmr for people playing for placement.

    the acknowledgement is that the matches to 1200 is the trudge, while preserving the current baker sniper grill eater dynamic at the placement level.
  • CannibalqueenCannibalqueen Posts: 144 Tile Toppler
    Making the break point 800 actually makes it easier for me to achieve my goal of 900.
    once I get to 900 I shield and quit. And sometimes the stretch between 600 and 800 is fraught with a lot of meta teams, but that last 100 is a piece of cake. 
    You’d think if they were setting MMR towards progression goals, they would make it break after 900.
  • SnowcaTTSnowcaTT Posts: 3,436 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 24 February 2021, 17:23
    Sounds to me like this is a plea for the graphic designers to get busy, change their selling-point that's been there for.....forever?

    https://pasteboard.co/JPRLYKW.jpg


    (Wow I haven't tried to upload an image to forums for some time, seems picky on what/how to take them. Trying to post BRB/Okoye as the top two choices on the classics image)


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