***** Adam Warlock (Infinity Watch) *****

Bad

Tiger_Wong said:

I think AW is the kind of character that you have to champ at high levels to reap the fruit of your labor. 

I can agree with that. On the introducing to unlikely alliance his AW was 20 levels above than the loaned. It took me some attemps, those levels made a difference, despite having gamora and thanos champed.
I doubt we will play with a champed AW on this introduction to, too bad that always fighting him.

HoundofShadow

I find that his PvP has crazy amount of cascades. It's unreal. I wiped a few times.

Bad

Judging by the comments here anyone would say he is bad. In the opposite, on his pvp just on his AoE running with Ihulk the battle is pretty fast.
Sometimes without being used to the enemy team takes a lot of damage and after thinking a bit the player realizes it was him.

Polares

Bad said:

Judging by the comments here anyone would say he is bad. In the opposite, on his pvp just on his AoE running with Ihulk the battle is pretty fast.
Sometimes without being used to the enemy team takes a lot of damage and after thinking a bit the player realizes it was him.

I have said that repeatedly, he is a good iH substitute for PvP when boosting AP initially (and just forget about healing him completely, as the damage is going to be boosted by Okoye or Apoc). I even see him as a much better companion for fast matches with Apoc than iH is, as you can control much better when the AW damage starts.

Said that, I am still disappointed by him. He will get a bit of use in PvP for people without iH, but I think that is about it, I don’t see him being useful most of the time, or for long play. Better than some recent releases, but that is about it.

PS: He might also be a good third for sim with okoye/Apoc and iH to make matches even faster
PS2: Wow, he has not been properly released yet, and he is no longer on the first page. Do Devs care about 5 releases anymore?!?!

Bad

Polares said:

PS: He might also be a good third for sim with okoye/Apoc and iH to make matches even faster

I agree with that seeing on his pvp there are exclusively hulkoye teams. 
That makes him meta.
People having okoye, almost majority, will cover him just to the point where okoye still tanks him. That is a bit sad.
People running apocalypse being a bit slower can cover him to the point they wanted. And they will enjoy him to his full potential.

thedarkphoenix

It's odd people don't see him as meta, clearly he will be.

Most of these characters without a team around them that aren't okoye or Thor aren't going to be meta creating. IMO those were the last two meta creating characters released.  You can put almost anyone with them to work around.

Since those two, there have been some strong characters that are meta affecting like Kitty, BRB apoc, charles, ihulk, but they all need to be built around or have specific partners to shine. (apoc less so than most others) 


Will he be pve meta, probably, but I don't he shakes the top of the top, will he be pvp meta, definitely another solid addition, especially in shield training.

fight4thedream

thedarkphoenix said:

It's odd people don't see him as meta, clearly he will be.

Most of these characters without a team around them that aren't okoye or Thor aren't going to be meta creating. IMO those were the last two meta creating characters released.  You can put almost anyone with them to work around.

Since those two, there have been some strong characters that are meta affecting like Kitty, BRB apoc, charles, ihulk, but they all need to be built around or have specific partners to shine. (apoc less so than most others) 


Will he be pve meta, probably, but I don't he shakes the top of the top, will he be pvp meta, definitely another solid addition, especially in shield training.

I suppose the reason for the lukewarm response is that his skill set isn't particularly interesting and he currently is overshadowed and countered pretty well by Immortal Hulk.

iHulk runs better with Okoye and has a more dangerous skill set.  His AoE is tied to the board condition and encourages you not to chase green to meet that condition freeing the player to pursue TUs, red or yellow AP tiles. His red is the strongest nuke in the game.  And notably, he has to be downed last.

Adam, on the other hand, requires the player to collect black AP in order to get his AoE off meaning, the player has to pursue black AP if they want to keep it going, meaning less chance to collect TU tiles and yellow. Additionally, his AoE comes at the expense of his own health.  He loses the match damage buff if he sinks below 50% health which means the player will simply target him first to reduce the buff if they perceive it as being a legitimate threat. Finally, and perhaps most notably he has a lot of color overlap with the two best attack boosters in the game, Okoye and Apocalypse.

To put it simply for pick 2 PvP events: iHulk/Okoye > Adam/Okoye

Now this could potentially change if one of the following occurs:

1. They introduce a character that spams special tiles, especially on green, either passively or with a very low AP cost and has a decent skill set. Alternatively, a character that changes green tiles into other colors or TU tiles would also do the trick.

2. They introduce a character that better complements Adam. Such a character would basically either have to hard counter Okoye (which I prefer personally) or excel at either boosting his AoE or match damage (not sure I want to see another mega booster as it will lead to the same issue we have now in top tier play).

3. Nerfs to either Okoye or iHulk which I rather not happen.

PvE is a different story

As a third wheel with Okoye/iHulk or Okoye/Thor teams, he will most certainly make matches faster. I am still on the fence on his compatibility with Apocalypse as I prefer to use black for Apocalype's attack ability but I acknowledge there are instances where it might be more beneficial to rely on Adam's AoE.

But without a doubt, he will have a place at the PvE meta table.

Looking over my own comments, I do find it unfortunate that his "meta" value really does hinge on his compatibility with Okoye for PvP and PvE but I suppose that is a different conversation.

tl; dr:  Pick 2 PvP events:  Okoye/iHulk is currently the better team. Adam has potential if they introduce strong counter mechanics to either iHulk or Okoye, or introduce a character that better complements his skill set.
          Pick 3 PvP events: will make a good third wheel for Okoye/i Hulk or Thor teams
          PvE: Has a lot of potential meta potential and will very likely speed up matches, especially when used with Okoye
          A brief reflection on Okoye's dominance in both PvP and PvE

Bad

fight4thedream said:

Adam, on the other hand, requires the player to collect black AP in order to get his AoE off meaning, the player has to pursue black AP if they want to keep it going, meaning less chance to collect TU tiles and yellow. Additionally, his AoE comes at the expense of his own health.  He loses the match damage buff if he sinks below 50% health which means the player will simply target him first to reduce the buff if they perceive it as being a legitimate threat. Finally, and perhaps most notably he has a lot of color overlap with the two best attack boosters in the game, Okoye and Apocalypse.

To put it simply for pick 2 PvP events: iHulk/Okoye > Adam/Okoye

Will he be aimed first on pvp? Now thats a tricky question. On apoc team yes, on okoye teams not so sure.
He works differently than Ihulk but Ihulk can be countered on relative succesful ways. AW needs just to gather black and a small AoE, others will amplify that.
His overlap is relative too. His yellow can be delayed as his others allied multipliers needed it the most. In the case of apoc, once fired he doesnt need it anymore.
His black is ok with okoye.  Apoc black is devastator bud needs protects and is unpredictable. In any case AW just drains 1 black.
Looking it from this perspective, it would had been a lot worst if he overlapped on red and on green. 
Personally I think he is a solid adittion, with a toolkit difficult to be outclassed, and a character that each player must study on his own.

ThaRoadWarrior

In PVE I wonder if he would actually be a better third than Thor for Hulkoye. The passive yellow collection you get from Thor massively speeds up okoy, So you’re leaning entirely now on active AP collection for gathering team up and black. I think I might bring Ghostpool for his incidental passive damage and active black with AOE before I brought Warlock, but again I need to see him champed to really know how he feels on my roster.

Glockoma

ThaRoadWarrior said:

In PVE I wonder if he would actually be a better third than Thor for Hulkoye. The passive yellow collection you get from Thor massively speeds up okoy, So you’re leaning entirely now on active AP collection for gathering team up and black. I think I might bring Ghostpool for his incidental passive damage and active black with AOE before I brought Warlock, but again I need to see him champed to really know how he feels on my roster.

Ghostpool/Hulkoye requires you to drain yellow for his true AOE which would be counterproductive as you would need yellow for Okoye’s heals/teamup production. The incidental passive king for Hulkoye, imo, would be 5* Profx still. He can also provide the swiss army knife functionality like selecting green off his active power to keep iHulk from doing his thing while adding a true AOE.

not saying DP isn’t a good third, I agree with you. But not with the “AOE” theory (that only hits one other rando I might add).

ThaRoadWarrior

Yeah, my Ghostpool is 2/2/5 and unleveled still, but I've been curious if Wade and Measured isn't a 5* version of Spider-Man 2099 for Okoye teams. You're doing that damage less often, but the base slug of damage is significantly bigger. I think he may work better on ThorKoye or Thorpocalypse teams than hulk-based ones. Profe$$or X's active seems like it would add more green to the board rather than removing it though, no? 

Anyway, maybe the full health cascades from champed AWs will work really well with Onslaught or Profe$$or defensively. That could be a pretty rough team to attack just from the random danger.

Tiger_Wong

Team him up with Rogue and get that triple damage with his life being over 50% and her Gloves Off. 

My AW is at 3/3/3 and yellow matches are HEAVY. Cant imagine how much when champed. 

Heartbreaksoup

Now that I've played Adam all the way through Webbed Wonder SCL9, at level 285 boosted to 395 with 1 purple and 1 black cover, I think he's Sentry-level bad.  If it took maybe 8 black AP to trigger his passive, it wouldn't be so bad, but two black matches - and I tried to avoid them - and he starts taking stupid amounts of damage.  More than once, he ended up doing 3000+ damage to himself and finished off a single opponent with only 300+ health remaining, hardly a good tradeoff.  I found myself wasting time chasing yellow traps to keep the loser alive.

Worse, if your final match of yellow downs your last opponent, then the match ends without Adam getting the healing he needs.

I'm tempted to sell any additional black covers I might find, and if I pull a yellow or purple, sell off the character that I have and try to start again building to 10 total and no black (which is how I play Gambit, red and purple only, because I dislike his black power almost as much).

atomzed

AW high match damage makes me wonder whether he will pair well with Killmonger. 

AW passive adds additional 113% match damage. This corresponds to 1845 (yellow), 1640 (purple) and 1436 (black).

KM passive adds additional 150% match damage in enemy strongest colour. That’s an additional of 4612 (yellow), 4100 (purple), 3590 (black). 

So match 3 damage would be 13,836 (yellow), 12,300 (purple) and 10,700!

This is quite crazy! Though the caveat is that it must match the enemy strongest colour. Too bad I don’t have a champ AW to test out my theory-crafting....

Tiger_Wong

Champed AW. Running him with Rogue/Okoye and hunting Onslaughts. 

Why?

1) Rogue is an anti-Onslaught
2) Onslaught’s strongest color is purple which means.....
3) when Rogue does Gloves Off on Onslaught, you get triple the match damage on purple matches. 

The damage on those matches are bananas. How bananas? Well, my AW is at level 451.....

Condition 1: Gloves Off on purple
Condition 2: AW’s health over 50%
Condition 3: AW’s yellow power at 5

a match 3 of purple does 14877. 

Damn. 

Bad

Not only that, damage on critical balls or charged tiles multiplies too.
I champed him too playing him is like always playing the 5E buffed.

sinnerjfl

atomzed said:

AW high match damage makes me wonder whether he will pair well with Killmonger. 

AW passive adds additional 113% match damage. This corresponds to 1845 (yellow), 1640 (purple) and 1436 (black).

KM passive adds additional 150% match damage in enemy strongest colour. That’s an additional of 4612 (yellow), 4100 (purple), 3590 (black). 

So match 3 damage would be 13,836 (yellow), 12,300 (purple) and 10,700!

This is quite crazy! Though the caveat is that it must match the enemy strongest colour. Too bad I don’t have a champ AW to test out my theory-crafting....

I champed AW a few days ago so I was able to test out this pairing. I put KM's red at 5 (usually I don't) and oh boy, this is quite effective when the enemy's strongest color happens to be black/yellow/purple. A simple match-4 can inflict a nice 20k dmg right off the bat. KM's red creating critical tiles is also quite good if you can match on AW's colors (very happy I champed KM now, I still think he's underrated).

I think AW's build should always be 5/5/3 btw, you want to maximize the healing and the time he is above 50% health the most you can. His black ability is a nice bonus but it shouldnt be the priority.

He tanks very nicely, with both his yellow and purple being quite cheap he always has time to heal himself back one way or the other. He also happens to make a lot of matches and eat up all the damage too (minus AOE's), that's another plus.

tonypq

I'm  a bit confused how well he'll pair with Sighclops, as far as trying to go crazy with match damage. 

Anyine think AW and Clops will be a good combo, possibly with a 3d character to have a legitimate powerful natch damage team ?

Also is Magneto or AW rotating out next ?

I wasn't planning on chasing AW or Clops, but I was curious how good they theoretically could be together wit a solid 3rd partner. I don't want to overlook these characters and kick myself later. Curious what you guys think. 

LavaManLee

tonypq said:

Also is Magneto or AW rotating out next ?

Magneto should be out next.  Around March 8.

BlackBoltRocks

tonypq said:

Also is Magneto or AW rotating out next ?

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/69869/current-latest-5-in-tokens-and-future-4-additions/p1