***** Magneto (Age of Apocalypse) *****

Vhailorx

MrPlow said:

Why Kitty again in the special store.  She was just in the anniversary store last month.

(1) Demi over-represents the meta characters in special stores.  Presumably this is so that players don't feel like they have absolutely no chance of getting older, high-value 5*s.  IMO this is the correct strategy if they are going to continue to keep classic LTs as hopelessly diluted as they are now.

(2) Demi is generally a little behind the players in their assessment of the meta (hence more turns for older meta characters like kitty/okoye/thor, and fewer for newer meta characters like BRB or IH). 

ThaRoadWarrior

Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is.

Isay_Isay

So yet another match damage buff to newer 5s?

wymtime

Bad said:

wymtime said:

He is not going to shake the Meta period.  Pair him with BRB/Kitty and you will still be targeted by enemy’s in SIM.  You just need 1 character who can deal with special tiles like Kitty or OMD.  

Daken fills brb AP and needs a lot of AP for do it, and kitty needs time. So its not as easy as it seems to deal with really high protects. There will be damage and time lost, all that if brb doesnt use clash of worthy.
Still there is a lot of things to explore yet, like if heimdall activates his blue or not, and how AI uses yellow( I must remember AI uses well all ghostpool penance flare). And look what it really means to face protect tiles raised at 96%.
So it will be nice to revisit this thread in some months, I agree with that.

I personally had OMD champed and have used him in PVP with Apoc against britty teams and it works amazingly.  Now imagine if I added 1/2 health Thor to the mix.  I could also bring Kitty instead and in 3-4 turns there are no protect tiles.  I am not saying he is hot garbage I am saying he is not “meta Shaking” like you keep saying.  He is nieche like many other characters

wymtime

Vhailorx said:

Bad said:

wymtime said:

He is not going to shake the Meta period.  Pair him with BRB/Kitty and you will still be targeted by enemy’s in SIM.  You just need 1 character who can deal with special tiles like Kitty or OMD.  

Daken fills brb AP and needs a lot of AP for do it, and kitty needs time. So its not as easy as it seems to deal with really high protects. There will be damage and time lost, all that if brb doesnt use clash of worthy.
Still there is a lot of things to explore yet, like if heimdall activates his blue or not, and how AI uses yellow( I must remember AI uses well all ghostpool penance flare). And look what it really means to face protect tiles raised at 96%.
So it will be nice to revisit this thread in some months, I agree with that.

Does OMD proc BRB's passive?  his red power description says 'remove,' but BRB's passive only grants ap when friendly tiles are 'destroyed.'  Usually 'removed' is an action that's treated like overwriting, ie it doesn't proc abilities that key of tile destruction.  Has anyone tested this?

No OMD removing protect tiles does not give the enemy AP.  I use OMD in PVP against Britty teams

PiMacleod

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is.

I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis

Borstock

PiMacleod said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is.

I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis

5* John McClane confirmed?

I have to agree with wymtime. This kit likely isn't meta without a friend I don't think is out there yet. As I said before, he feels a lot like another Heimdall; a puzzle missing a piece.

ThaRoadWarrior

Borstock said:

PiMacleod said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is.

I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis

5* John McClane confirmed?

5* Guru for the win

Vhailorx

Borstock said:

PiMacleod said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is.

I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis

5* John McClane confirmed?

I have to agree with wymtime. This kit likely isn't meta without a friend I don't think is out there yet. As I said before, he feels a lot like another Heimdall; a puzzle missing a piece.

Maybe I am missing something, or am biased by my preference for true healing, but heimdall seems significantly better than  5mags to me, even accepting the fact that he needs a better partner to be meta.

5mags has some nice strike tile production, and decent repeaters, but on a relatively expensive power.  He also has a massive nuke that can multi-dip on his own strikes, but is not spammable and requires a lot of set up.  He enables some protect tile exploitation games too with a decent passive. He also has very high match damage and not too much health (by modern standards). 

Heimdall has (somewhat weak) true healing, damage resistance, somewhat clunky ap arbitrage, can fortify especially important tiles for cheap, and also has a slow, cumbersome nuke that maxes out in the 60k range.  But heimdall's kit can make his nuke cost just 3ap, AND it can be spammed.  Plus he has very high health to go with his modern match damage, plus true healing, so he is prettya good character for tanking. 

I guess the deciding factor for me is that even if they had ideal partners, 5mags still needs 24 yellow + 10 blue PLUS 3 turns to cast his nuke once.  Assuming you get 20k of strikes out on the board, his nuke will do something like 180k damage, and can split across multiple targets.  But heimdall, with the same 32ap (12 blue, 20 red) could cast his red 5 times in a single turn and do ~100k.  Add in the right teammates and both character can make ap a lot faster, but 5mags still needs 3 turns for each cast so more ap doesn't really increase his damage per turn.  For heimdall, every additional bit of ap is a double accelerant (because he both reached his casting thresholds faster AND makes his abilities cheaper).

TL;DR both characters would benefit from partners that just don't exist in the game right now.  For heimdall, the right partner makes him super fast and quite dangerous, but it's not clear to me that even an ideal fantasy partner can put 5mags in the meta.

Bad

wymtime said:

I personally had OMD champed and have used him in PVP with Apoc against britty teams and it works amazingly.  Now imagine if I added 1/2 health Thor to the mix.  I could also bring Kitty instead and in 3-4 turns there are no protect tiles.  I am not saying he is hot garbage I am saying he is not “meta Shaking” like you keep saying.  He is nieche like many other characters

So its not going to be meta? Did you notice polaris is an xmen? Sooo...

ThaRoadWarrior

I don't know; it's always hard to judge new 5s on paper when they aren't doing something obvious. I remember when Kitty came out, people were like "yeah, she's going to be a dud"
see: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/75159/kitty-pryde-uncanny-x-men-9-17-18/p1

I'm not saying this is that, but I think I'll reserve judgement until he starts showing up in the wild. Being airborne for 3 turns, even if it isn't doing #VultureStuff could prove to be extremely annoying, and may or may not lead to a new Infinite iHulk pairing but with 5* health and danger, seeing as his blue doesn't burn the yellow. Notice that he turns green to yellow, hulk then adds more green to the board. It would be interesting if he did that every turn he was airborne but I suspect it's just on liftoff.

In pick-3 it would be a tossup for me using Doom for additional yellow sapping on opponent turns offensively, Profe$$or X for general nonsense, or BRB for seed Protects and blue/green battery.

PiMacleod

right... I like how people all named him "Carbage" -- yet there are teams out there that use him, even before Polaris.  He ended up having great synergy with BRB, and other special tile users, and against special tile users.  I personally like him with Prof and Onslaught against a team of special tile users -- double dip those chances of match-4s please!

So  yeah... I'll reserve judgement for when we see him out and about.  Never know what our community will come up with once he's in our hands.

Vhailorx

OJSP said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I don't know; it's always hard to judge new 5s on paper when they aren't doing something obvious. I remember when Kitty came out, people were like "yeah, she's going to be a dud"
see: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/75159/kitty-pryde-uncanny-x-men-9-17-18/p1

I'm not saying this is that, but I think I'll reserve judgement until he starts showing up in the wild. 

People except one, I think.. bbigler

I agree with the second paragraph. Let's just wait and see. I never liked theory crafting and I'm not going to start now.

Yes, bigler was certainly ahead of the community of Kitty's value.  And other strong characters have been released to minimal, or at least understated, fanfare in the past (rulk and 4* cyc come to mind, as well as halfthor).

One thing I personally have learned about evaluating characters on paper is not to overlook the value of a one trick pony in mpq (if the trick is good enough).  I was skeptical on rulk, 4* blade, halfthor, 5* carnage, yelena, and even im40 + lady Thor because they all rely so heavily on a single mechanic.  But I was too pessimistic in all cases; those are all useful-to-very-strong teams/characters because they are exceptionally good at what they do, and what they do is valuable in most mpq matches.

Unlike OJSP, I love theory crafting (as long as one is clear that it IS just theory), and I am not sure any single trick that 5mags does that will be good enough to overcome his negatives.  I agree with road warrior that 3 turns airborne with a sword of Damocles coming at the end could be annoying on defense.  But the ai will canibalize its own yellow with that cheap power, so I don't think the sword will ever really be all that scary on its own.  And on offense I think spammable, instant damage is just about always superior to extra damage that takes so long to set up. 

But I will certainly concede that he could play up in practice (e.g., if he converts green to yellow each turn he is airborne, which would explain why he stays up longer with more covers, or if his repeaters continue to count down while he is aloft).

Polares

This guy is so bad that I am starting to consider if I should open my stash right now before OMD exits latest, and then start saving for after Magneto. But the current 3 are not even that great, Heimdall has potential, but he is not great, and the other are just good (they could be used sometimes but nothing special). This would be the first time I open my LTs for a trio so "bad" in a long time :S

This is so sad. I love Magneto and I wanted him to be good, and instead we got this.

Bad

Okay. Kitty needs a certain number of tiles for to improve them, if not she is done.
Magneto increases them without any turn and without a minimal limit.
Magneto brb(both yellow 5) and polaris. On this team right on the start protect will be almost 600. On this team must be denied at all cost 6 blue, but also 6 yellow or there will be 4 protect of 600. Also trying to down polaris before she matches any protect, or there will be 3 protects of 300 more or less. Plus denying red.
Like you can see, not a really pleasant team, if not having a ton of red and anti protects.

PiMacleod

Fun thought... If anyone WAS scared of the cpu actually running him correctly, and using that blue/yellow multi-hit bomb of his... 

That would raise the value of Iceman's and Sinister's passive protection abilities, wouldn't it...    As well as others.  

Just imagine -- you're gonna hit the enemy hard with that... and then Iceman jumps in the way of it, putting down yellow countdowns to protect the ally and himself.  Then his ally 5* Storm just destroys the yellow tiles.  What an insult!

Same could happen for Sinister, I assume -- just need the black AP to feed the protection, much like Iceman needs TU AP.  Although Sinister blocks a lot less...

Polares

Bad said:

Okay. Kitty needs a certain number of tiles for to improve them, if not she is done.
Magento increases them without any turn and without a minimal limit.
Magneto brb(both yellow 5) and polaris. On this team right on the start protect will be almost 600. On this team must be denied at all cost 6 blue, but also 6 yellow or there will be 4 protect of 600. Also trying to down polaris before she matches any protect, or there will be 2 protects of 400 more or less. Plus denying red.
Like you can see, not a really pleasant team, if not having a ton of red and anti protects.

Sure Kitty need a certain number of protects to work, but with Polaris in that team it is just 3 and between all of them you will never have problems to have 3 protects or more in the field. BRB, Kitty, Polaris is a much better team than BRB, Magneto, Polaris. Magneto team has the advantage in the first turns but after a while Kitty's team is so much better, so much so that she can even negate some powers, not just match damage.

There are a lot of ways Magneto could have been better, but giving him an active yellow, repeaters in his red, making him go airborne for 3 turns ( 3 full TURNS where he does nothing!!!!! ) before doing any damage with his blue... They ruined him.

PS: He is not the worst 5 by any means, but he is so disappointing.... 

ThaRoadWarrior

IceIX said:

Polar Coordination - 10  AP

Magneto surveys the battlefield, planning the perfect moment to strike. Magneto converts 3 Basic Green tiles to Yellow and goes Airborne for 2 turns. For every 3 Yellow AP Magneto has when he returns from being Airborne, deal a blow of 1148 damage to the enemy (up to 8 . (Max Level 4614 damage)

• Level 2: Deal 1339 damage. (Max Level 5383 damage)
• Level 3: Deal 1531 damage. (Max Level 6182 damage)
• Level 4: Converts 4 tiles.
• Level 5: Go Airborne for 3 turns and deal 2105 damage. (Max Level 8459 damage)

@Demiurge_Anthony Can you clarify if the green to yellow conversion happens every turn he's airborne, or is it just when you initially fire the power?

Magnetic Inhibitor - 9  AP

Magneto manipulates the iron in his enemy's blood, weakening their position. Magneto creates 2 strength 38 Black Strike tiles. Then create 2 Purple 2-turn Repeater tiles that convert 1 enemy Strike, Attack, or Protect tiles to a friendly Strike tile and deal 153 damage. (Max level strength 154 tiles, 615 damage)

• Level 2: Repeater tiles deal 268 damage. (Max level 1076 damage)
• Level 3: Repeater tiles deal 383 damage. (Max level 1538 damage)
• Level 4: Repeater tiles deal 765 damage. (Max level 3075 damage)
• Level 5: Repeater tiles deal 1454 damage. (Max level 5843 damage)

Release Schedule

Do the strike values not scale with the number of covers or the character level, just the damage? Also do the repeaters do anything if there are no enemy specials to convert?

Vhailorx

Bad said:

Okay. Kitty needs a certain number of tiles for to improve them, if not she is done.
Magneto increases them without any turn and without a minimal limit.
Magneto brb(both yellow 5) and polaris. On this team right on the start protect will be almost 600. On this team must be denied at all cost 6 blue, but also 6 yellow or there will be 4 protect of 600. Also trying to down polaris before she matches any protect, or there will be 3 protects of 300 more or less. Plus denying red.
Like you can see, not a really pleasant team, if not having a ton of red and anti protects.

You are conveniently ignoring that Kitty's tile buff is both significantly stronger than 5Mags' and, most importantly, passive.  Yes, it takes turns, but you must burn through those turns to advance the game anyway, so her boosting has zero marginal costs.  5Mags can only boost with his yellow active, which is cheap but detracts from the strength of his blue nuke.  And you must already have the tiles out to boost in the first place (just like kitty). 

And thanks to the existence of apoc, it should remain pretty easy to carve through just about any polaris-reliant PVP team.  All it takes is 7 red. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Vhailorx said:

Bad said:

Okay. Kitty needs a certain number of tiles for to improve them, if not she is done.
Magneto increases them without any turn and without a minimal limit.
Magneto brb(both yellow 5) and polaris. On this team right on the start protect will be almost 600. On this team must be denied at all cost 6 blue, but also 6 yellow or there will be 4 protect of 600. Also trying to down polaris before she matches any protect, or there will be 3 protects of 300 more or less. Plus denying red.
Like you can see, not a really pleasant team, if not having a ton of red and anti protects.

You are conveniently ignoring that Kitty's tile buff is both significantly stronger than 5Mags' and, most importantly, passive.  Yes, it takes turns, but you must burn through those turns to advance the game anyway, so her boosting has zero marginal costs.  5Mags can only boost with his yellow active, which is cheap but detracts from the strength of his blue nuke.  And you must already have the tiles out to boost in the first place (just like kitty). 

And thanks to the existence of apoc, it should remain pretty easy to carve through just about any polaris-reliant PVP team.  All it takes is 7 red. 

Magneto has a protect-boosting passive that's just flat from the jump go. The active component is also there, but all protects are N% stronger for every active X-Man on the team.