*****Heimdall (The Gatekeeper) *****

HoundofShadow

I just tried his Introducing Event and it appears his blue power is better that I interpreted initially. If you have four fortified red tiles, your red power will cost you only 6ap. Basically, all your teammates' powers could be reduced to 3 if you managed to fortify most of the board and if their ap costs aren't too high. Basically, there isn't any cap since most power costs between 9-12 ap on average, but the min ap cost is 3 for most characters.

MadScientist

Does his yellow trigger 5* Black Panther?

ThaRoadWarrior

HoundofShadow said:

I just tried his Introducing Event and it appears his blue power is better that I interpreted initially. If you have four fortified red tiles, your red power will cost you only 6ap. Basically, all your teammates' powers could be reduced to 3 if you managed to fortify most of the board and if their ap costs aren't too high. Basically, there isn't any cap since most power costs between 9-12 ap on average, but the min ap cost is 3 for most characters.

3 is a hard minimum across the board, but some characters have a higher minimum if it's specified in the power like 4* Ghost Rider's green "...(to a minimum of 6)."

I noticed Heimdall's yellow can't be fired on himself, but that yellow damage reduction capability is pretty effective on the last man standing. I'm very curious how that power is going to interact with an Immortal Hulk death/rebirth. Will he a) reduce that friendly fire the way Vision can do or not and b) treat that team state as being alone on the board until hulk actually comes back or not?

I'm looking forward to trying him on teams, he's the fun kind of gimmick character I usually enjoy playing. Reducing AP costs is a great way to revitalize some otherwise marginal characters.

ThaRoadWarrior

MadScientist said:

Does his yellow trigger 5* Black Panther?

Does that still happen? I thought that bug was fixed at some point?

wymtime

after playing the first introducing event it does feel like Blue is the main color to chase with him.  I am thinking pairing him with Apocalypse and Thor.  You start my matching blues only really looking to get to 9 blue AP.  This lets you fortify 3 blue and then 3 red.  Thor should have helped you collect 7 yellow already. From there Heimdall will heal 16k health and Apocalypse red will now cost 4. You can then chase blue and black.  Keep fortifying black and red to make each cost 3 and watch Apocalypse wipe everyone out.

pros Heimdall will keep healing saving HP and making Apocalypse red do most of the work.  Also will avoid protect tiles when doing damage against Kitty/BRB teams.

cons of this will be cascades wiping out fortified tiles and enemy matches wiping out fortified tiles.  

Against goons he feels like he has a build up AP then lets his team lay the wood to some people.  Against tile movers it might be a different story 

Vhailorx

After playing with him a bit in "Introducing" I think that two things are pretty clear:

(1) His blue is a very good power. This sort of targeted, deep ap-cost reduction is totally new to the game; we have always had broad, shallow ap cost reduction in the past (ie reduction that applies to multiple colors, but only bumps the cost down a little bit. Heimdall's blue only applies to one color at a time, but can make even very expensive powers dirt cheap). And it also has a reasonably efficient true heal plus the utility of fortifying particular tiles added on top. It's definitely his best power and it will set ceiling for Heimdall (ie, he will sink or swim based on this power).  The only question I have is whether it will be fast enough to put him in the meta.  I am not sure if it is best used on several colors to make multiple cheap powers REALLY cheap (e.g, apoc), or to super charge a single, very good power (e.g., making BRB's green cost 3ap).  I suspect the latter because MPQ tends to reward one-trick-ponies with a REALLY good trick more than generalists, but I look forward to experimenting.

(2) I think Heimdall's very strong blue was the prime motivating factor behind the stunner bro nerfs.  If you can cast this power 5 or 6 times each match effectively for free because the stunner bros are feeding you blue, then all your key powers will cost 3ap in no time and the game will be trivial.  

Finally, I have at least two additional questions about his yellow: (1) When cast while you have two active allies, does it generate 6ap, or 3?  Is it just 3ap for the single strongest color from either of your allies, or is it 3ap for the strongest color from each ally?  and if the latter, can you double up by having two allies with the same strongest color? (2) His DR didn't seem to be working in the 1v1, does it only apply in 3vX (or 2vX) matches?

Vhailorx

wymtime said:

after playing the first introducing event it does feel like Blue is the main color to chase with him.  I am thinking pairing him with Apocalypse and Thor.  You start my matching blues only really looking to get to 9 blue AP.  This lets you fortify 3 blue and then 3 red.  Thor should have helped you collect 7 yellow already. From there Heimdall will heal 16k health and Apocalypse red will now cost 4. You can then chase blue and black.  Keep fortifying black and red to make each cost 3 and watch Apocalypse wipe everyone out.

pros Heimdall will keep healing saving HP and making Apocalypse red do most of the work.  Also will avoid protect tiles when doing damage against Kitty/BRB teams.

cons of this will be cascades wiping out fortified tiles and enemy matches wiping out fortified tiles.  

Against goons he feels like he has a build up AP then lets his team lay the wood to some people.  Against tile movers it might be a different story 

Sadly, heimdall cannot reduce the cost of  his own blue power.  it always costs 6.  a blue battery will be important for him (or at least an ally with blue as the strongest color to turn his yellow into his own blue batter).

Daredevil217

My initial take is similar to many. Super fun character though I don’t see meta potential. His cons are that he’s more dangerous in the players’ hands than the AIs. And he’s slow. Meta is all about scaring people on defense and/or winning fast on offense. He’s unfortunately not a replacement for what Thor does passively. At best he could be a third in sim on a gimmick team if you want to play him competitively. 

However... on a fun team... he seems phenomenal. Just a well designed well thought out kit. He’s a huge boost to teammates and his uniqueness makes him worth chasing, IMO. I love the selected fortification. Huge for characters like 5* Marvel. And the ability to target your AP reduction and having to put thought into team composition to leverage strongest colors makes him such a fun character to theorycraft around. 

I think they knocked it out of the park with this one personally. Trying to decide if 5 in red or yellow is better. That damage reduction seems nice with his health (think of how annoying Professor can be), and there is no shortage of great reds in the tier. But that’s a pretty beastly damage ability and I’d hate to neuter it. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I still think he could be part of an offensive BRB meta, since Clash of the Worthy comes out fortified on its own color and BRB is his own AP accelerant. You don’t ever need to fire Heimdall’s blue to start taking advantage of it, unless you want to drive down the cost of Scuttlebutt. Doing ~10k for 3blue AP a ton of times in a turn is pretty effective at slaying opponents it turns out. The AI won’t Be able to take advantage of that, but He’ll be good on offense I think. You might even be able to run Heimdall at 3/5/5 or 4/5/4 or something if you don't need him to create his own fortifications.

ThaRoadWarrior

Question about the Airborne status - I thought allies counted as "active" until they were dead; does Heimdall's yellow throwing his bros in the air serve to trigger it's passive for a turn? It seems like that was the intent, but the closest thing to that edge case I've come across so far is iHulk essentially "losing his turn" when you fire his red with a flying vulture.

krakenoon

I was wondering if he might be a viable 3rd for IHulk/Vulture. True healing, DR w/ a short break from team damage w/ Hulk & reducing the cost of Vulture’s airborne ability would make it easier to keep him flying.
Just a thought.

wymtime

Vhailorx said:

wymtime said:

after playing the first introducing event it does feel like Blue is the main color to chase with him.  I am thinking pairing him with Apocalypse and Thor.  You start my matching blues only really looking to get to 9 blue AP.  This lets you fortify 3 blue and then 3 red.  Thor should have helped you collect 7 yellow already. From there Heimdall will heal 16k health and Apocalypse red will now cost 4. You can then chase blue and black.  Keep fortifying black and red to make each cost 3 and watch Apocalypse wipe everyone out.

pros Heimdall will keep healing saving HP and making Apocalypse red do most of the work.  Also will avoid protect tiles when doing damage against Kitty/BRB teams.

cons of this will be cascades wiping out fortified tiles and enemy matches wiping out fortified tiles.  

Against goons he feels like he has a build up AP then lets his team lay the wood to some people.  Against tile movers it might be a different story 

Sadly, heimdall cannot reduce the cost of  his own blue power.  it always costs 6.  a blue battery will be important for him (or at least an ally with blue as the strongest color to turn his yellow into his own blue batter).

Dam your right.  So 5* characters with Blue as their strongest colors Professor X, AA, wasp, Peter Parker, Cable, SS, Banner(1/2 the time), rescue, BSSM, Dr strange.  That is a good amount of 5* too bad most of them are not good.

i still think letting him match blue can work for 6 AP since it will also true heal him.  If he reduces Apocalypse red to 3AP Apocalypse can put a lot of hurt on.

with BRB it will be nice having Heimdall tanking for bill with the true heal factor and reducing the cost of BRB green.  It could also make Heimdall’s yellow more useful.

PiMacleod

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Vhailorx said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I like the look of Heimdall, and his Shuri-like powers. He'll be a terror with BRB/Polaris i suspect. 

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment re: polaris.  her strength is lots of passive damage procs and flooding the board with specials.  But her tiles by themselves are fairly puny by 5* standards, so she more or less needs a damage booster (kitty, okoye, or Apoc) to really play in 5* land.  Additionally, heimdall doesn't really leverage special tiles or passive damage ticks at all; his strengths are various ap shenanigans to improve active powers, and tanking damage.  plus, polaris and heimdall will always be fighting for blue ap.

*I think apoc might be a good fit with him (although they do overlap on 2 colors).  Apoc is really good, and even better if his powers cost 6 or less, plus heimdall tanks 2 colors for him, making the team quite survivable.  Add a good blue and/or red battery as the third wheel and this team looks quite strong. 

*HE might also be an interesting pairing, as he will passively fortify tiles that will make powers cheaper to keep the train rolling.

*Okoye + IH might be also be a good match.  Both can true heal on different colors (so they won't fight for ap), and IH's red is even scarier at 3ap.  Add in okoye-boosting and IH's passive AOE and this team will really really hurt.

The big draw of Polaris + BRB is that she floods a board with protects faster than he can, and without taking damage. With BrB you don’t actually care what the strength of the protects is, just that destroying them provides a free green and blue AP as a battery. His blue is already dirt cheap, and add that to an AP Coupon like Heimdall (or shuri or 4* Lord or N4tasha), and you can really wreak some havoc. Now imagine you have targeted fortification, so you fortify a blue match-3 containing 3 protects. Now you get 6ap from the match itself (fortifications accrue AP twice if they all get matched away), then you get 3x green and 3x blue from breaking the shield. THEN Polaris turns that into 9x more protect tiles. On top of that, BrB’s blue comes out fortified, so it gets cheaper every time you fire it. It’ll be wild quick.

Sigh... I knew it wouldn't be long before others saw this potential team-up... 

So, I was thinking of this too, before I looked here on the forums.  Reason is, Heimdall's passive lowers OTHER friendly powers by up to 3.  BRB generates blue on friendly protect matches/destruction.  Polaris makes more protects upon the same contigency.

Use your first 6 blue to fortify 3 out of the way blues.  Keep 'em safe, keep 'em secret. 

There, now you have Polaris blue stun at 3 cheaper.  Protects for dayz to generate more blue/green.  Keep the stun rolling longer with more protect generation.  BRB basically becomes your blue battery, along with damage output due to his green, while Polaris is your stunner.  Heimdall just makes 'em come together for cheaper costs.

The only problem is getting that first 6 devoted to a Heimdall blue.  Hopefully, you can match protects early and often.

Fun thought -- can also be countered by a mirror-match, since a basic fortified tile isn't really owned by anyone.

ThaRoadWarrior

Just play BRB like you would - his blue comes out fortified, every time you cast it it'll be 1ap cheaper until it's ultimately only 3ap to fire. You probably won't ever need to fire off Heimdall or Polaris's blue powers. Clash of the Worthy hits pretty hard already, and when you're firing it off after every blue match at least once depending on how many protect tiles are in the match, that team is probably going to be pretty fast.

I'm pretty confident there'll be some Hawkeye synergy too, with the usual suspects in 3rd place (Coulson, XFDP)

Jacklag

Painmonger said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Heimdall doesn’t seem to self reduce unfortunately

Wondered about that, too. The way it's worded, it might still reduce his red & yellow, but not his blue. It says "other friendly powers" not "allies powers" so hard to tell without confirmation or seeing it in the wild.

Just confirmed that his Blue DOES reduce the cost of his Red and Yellow powers. Just not itself.

Been thinking of a few partneship possibilities. If a stunned character is not considered active, then Vulture+Heimdall+IM40 could be a great team. Vulture is always airborne, IM40 is stunned half the time. Vulture + Black Cat too. Black Cat can send herself airborne when Heimdall doesn't, use Vulture's green AP exceptionally and and adds a stun to Heimdall's yellow.

atomzed

So many interesting combos! Thanks for all the theory crafting!

As he is a complicated character, AI can’t really play him well. Which is a good thing. The only question is whether he can supplant the other PVP meta teams (hulkoye, Britty, Apocalypse+ another)

Vhailorx

atomzed said:

So many interesting combos! Thanks for all the theory crafting!

As he is a complicated character, AI can’t really play him well. Which is a good thing. The only question is whether he can supplant the other PVP meta teams (hulkoye, Britty, Apocalypse+ another)

Supplant or supplement.  Apoc didn't dominate the meta, but he did add multiple, viable options to it.

DAZ0273

This first day of Introducing Heimdall puzzles me - it is almost like the least optimal choice in terms of set-up was chosen to show off his power set! Heimdall needs buddies to shine but we get a solo that is a wave node?!?!?

atomzed

DAZ0273 said:

This first day of Introducing Heimdall puzzles me - it is almost like the least optimal choice in terms of set-up was chosen to show off his power set! Heimdall needs buddies to shine but we get a solo that is a wave node?!?!?

I thought the first day was meant to showcase his damage reduction and healing ability. Despite me playing slowly as I wanted to try the moves, I healed back all the damage. 

Vhailorx

DAZ0273 said:

This first day of Introducing Heimdall puzzles me - it is almost like the least optimal choice in terms of set-up was chosen to show off his power set! Heimdall needs buddies to shine but we get a solo that is a wave node?!?!?

The events are all cut-and-paste.  Customization is too much work.  Hence we get riri/Bobbi/decoy in every welcome to shield etc.