Step aside, Bishop

StevO-J

With Bishop now nerfed, we can probably assume that if Polaris needs a nerf it will be here the moment the 'next hotness' character is introduced. Looking at Bishop's reign, in about 2 years time... 

Rosraf

KGB said:

If they are doing to nerf the Winfinite they better do it fast before she gets into tokens to lessen the complaints. Another possible fix would be to change her tile spawn from 3X of the type matched to 1 strike/protect/attack. This will stop the BRB Winfinite (or make it really hard to get going) while retaining the essence of the power and in some cases make it better than it was.

Of course they still haven't fixed the Peggy team-up bug or even acknowledged it exists yet and that's a huge advantage for players (I use it in every battle to make enemy powers cost 3 more) so who knows if/when this Winfinite gets addressed.

KGB

Peggy TU bug?  I knew nothing of this. 

Aweberman

Re: the winfinite combo (5* Carol/Bill/Polaris)
It is fast and easy to do.  With only a very little luck, you can get it rolling in about 3-4 turns pretty reliably.  As soon as you can fire Carol's green, you're off to the races.

helix72

Here's the thing though: I'm not skipping a single Polaris matchup. I'll bring my own and feel great about it. Bishop? Worthy + 5*HE?  I'm still hitting the skip button at least until after the nerf.

Think about it: with these changes it is now easier to win on offense and easier to lose on defense. This equals more "action", which overall I believe will lead to point inflation. I expect it to be much quicker to hit progression rewards and in less time, though placement will likely now take more points.

How many times have you climbed to 1000 points only to see that everyone above you is shielded and your only options are 5, 6, and 7 point matchups? In the slice I play, 1000 points used to be good enough for around 45-60th place. I think we're going to see that drop. But if it makes it easier for me to hit 1200 and that's what I need to be t50, I'm okay with that. Of course, I'd rather they drop the CP reward to 1000 like they had it before, but in lieu of that, I'll take this.

Vhailorx

Aweberman said:

Re: the winfinite combo (5* Carol/Bill/Polaris)
It is fast and easy to do.  With only a very little luck, you can get it rolling in about 3-4 turns pretty reliably.  As soon as you can fire Carol's green, you're off to the races.

That might not actually be fast enough for pve purposes.  We really need an engine that can start after just 1 or maybe 2 matches to handle the very toughest nodes (where gritty or carnage or eventually IH can put out 20-30k or more on turn 1). 

Infinite engines always tend to be self- imited because they are slow.  So unless these new infinite teams can shield hop effectively, I don't think they will have much of a impact on PvP.  I suppose they will make grinding out 75 wins easier, but that is already and enormous investment of time, so those people who want to do it all are few in number and unlikely to be affected by a nerf.

KGB

Rosraf said:

KGB said:

Of course they still haven't fixed the Peggy team-up bug or even acknowledged it exists yet and that's a huge advantage for players (I use it in every battle to make enemy powers cost 3 more) so who knows if/when this Winfinite gets addressed.

KGB

Peggy TU bug?  I knew nothing of this. 

See the Peggy Thread in the bug forum.

It pays to read something other than General Discussion

KGB

PiMacleod

Vhailorx said:

Aweberman said:

Re: the winfinite combo (5* Carol/Bill/Polaris)
It is fast and easy to do.  With only a very little luck, you can get it rolling in about 3-4 turns pretty reliably.  As soon as you can fire Carol's green, you're off to the races.

That might not actually be fast enough for pve purposes.  We really need an engine that can start after just 1 or maybe 2 matches to handle the very toughest nodes (where gritty or carnage or eventually IH can put out 20-30k or more on turn 1). 

Infinite engines always tend to be self- imited because they are slow.  So unless these new infinite teams can shield hop effectively, I don't think they will have much of a impact on PvP.  I suppose they will make grinding out 75 wins easier, but that is already and enormous investment of time, so those people who want to do it all are few in number and unlikely to be affected by a nerf.

I'm guessing this is for placement purposes....?

I only ask because I've been counting my turns recently, seeing who was faster for my SCL10 PvE stuff... Thorkoye 2099, or Grittynaut.

Thorkoye 2099 seems to be around 3-4 turns for me.  Gotta get that TU AP!  It doesnt really do much until you do.  I mean, Okoye's a great tank, sure.  No health packs needed really, unless something silly happens.

Grittynaut is about the same in my experience, except Kitty may require a health pack more often, since there's no true heal.  But, of course, Juggernaut should be doing your tanking as much as possible.

For me, it comes down to learning what team to use when... then deciding if I wanna go through the trouble of hunting down those characters in my roster.  ugh. 

I've been playing with others lately too... half health Thor and Apoc get sick fast as well!  Can't use Juggs or 2099 with them though... not enough heroes, and Juggs color overlap is too much.

Meanwhile, this new winfinite team seems to be... well... luck dependant.  I win most of my matches, and depending on how many protects I can nab, I can get rolling rather quick.  3-4 turns would be fine for me.

Dormammu

The thing that really stands out to me is Polaris' obvious pairing with Gritty and how she entirely eliminates the risk of using Gritty against tile-movers in PvE (and PvP for that matter). Gritty is pretty safe against goons regardless of their level because the player has more control of the board and can preserve Rocket's strikes. But against high level tile movers, Gritty is too risky because there's a good chance the strikes won't last and you're left without enough offensive punch to be effective. In those situations a Bishop team is (soon to be 'was') far more tempting to me.

But with Polaris you're good either way. Either Rocket's strike tiles are accessible and you win by matching them and letting Polaris go nuts, or they're buried and you win by Kitty buffing them.

Normally I would never use Gritty in The Hunt because most of the opponents are active Dark Avengers, but last night I used Polaris/Gritty (with a 2/2/1 Polaris) and cleared the first sub in record time.

Rosraf

KGB said:

Rosraf said:

KGB said:

Of course they still haven't fixed the Peggy team-up bug or even acknowledged it exists yet and that's a huge advantage for players (I use it in every battle to make enemy powers cost 3 more) so who knows if/when this Winfinite gets addressed.

KGB

Peggy TU bug?  I knew nothing of this. 

See the Peggy Thread in the bug forum.

It pays to read something other than General Discussion

KGB

Thank you sir for sharing with us unadventurous General Discussion board dwellers. 

ThaRoadWarrior

This is kind of the first time Danver5 has been semi-relevant to any team, so it would be a shame if any hypothetical nerf happened to her. But this combo is absolutely defeatable when you fight them on offense, which means that they aren't going to allow people using them to float, which I would imagine will shift HP burn back into shields in PVP even if it doesn't result in Health Pack burndown. Honestly, any Apocalypse/Thor combo can pound polaris flat before she even gets moving offensively.

bluewolf

My take on the 5CM/BRB/Polaris team is they are good for cheesing hard nodes in pve, and running in pick 3 on a lark/chasing wins. 

Not fast enough or AI-proof enough for floating high, nor hops. 

Vhailorx

bluewolf said:

My take on the 5CM/BRB/Polaris team is they are good for cheesing hard nodes in pve, and running in pick 3 on a lark/chasing wins. 

Not fast enough or AI-proof enough for floating high, nor hops. 

If true, then I vote for no nerf.  That description applied to Charlie's angels in their prime, and they were never a competitive problem for the pvp game and aged gracefully out of the pve meta just via the shift to a true 5* meta.

jp1

Nerfs aren’t for the player base or balance. Everything they do or ever will do is about profits. I’m amazed more people can’t see it for what it is.

I need some of those rose colored glasses.

Also, I’m done spending on this game (legitimately) until they start giving as much as they take away. Tired of things getting progressively worse and then the expectation is that of gratitude for whatever breadcrumb we get tossed.

I spent enough to matter to most businesses but probably not MPQ, so I’m just stating a fact not trying to leverage.

BriMan2222

jp1 said:

Nerfs aren’t for the player base or balance. Everything they do or ever will do is about profits. I’m amazed more people can’t see it for what it is.

I need some of those rose colored glasses.

Also, I’m done spending on this game (legitimately) until they start giving as much as they take away. Tired of things getting progressively worse and then the expectation is that of gratitude for whatever breadcrumb we get tossed.

I spent enough to matter to most businesses but probably not MPQ, so I’m just stating a fact not trying to leverage.

I would agree with certain nerfs, like the one to old man Logan, which did nothing but make players go back to spending hp on health packs, but I fail to see how any of these new balance changes make them any money.

Nerfing bishop seems like it will save players health pack as from what I've seen it costs health packs both to fight him and to use him.  Maybe players will have to use actual shields more since less people will be skipping you?  I don't know if the amount of players that might use more shields is significant?

It also seems like they are likely to lose some players, and potentially paying players, for the nerfs to both bishop and worthy.  I know I'm especially seeing people upset by the worthy nerf as he allowed a means for players to defeat harder pve nodes.

jp1

It’s a matter of perspective I guess. Pay close attention to all recent and current releases and offers. Notice any trends?

Daredevil217

jp1 said:

It’s a matter of perspective I guess. Pay close attention to all recent and current releases and offers. Notice any trends?

You mean the fact that Bishop was King B (beyond broken) for like two years and despite being a known problem upon his release, they didn’t nerf him until

a) everyone had exhausted resources max-champing him. 

b) the counter everyone chased (Apocalypse) has left Latest Legends.

c) they created a new shiny meta 4* for people to chase. 

Honestly. I don’t care. He’s dead. That’s all that matters to me. 

jp1

Daredevil217 said:

jp1 said:

It’s a matter of perspective I guess. Pay close attention to all recent and current releases and offers. Notice any trends?

You mean the fact that Bishop was King B (beyond broken) for like two years and despite being a known problem upon his release, they didn’t nerf him until

a) everyone had exhausted resources max-champing him. 

b) the counter everyone chased (Apocalypse) has left Latest Legends.

c) they created a new shiny meta 4* for people to chase. 

Honestly. I don’t care. He’s dead. That’s all that matters to me. 

At least you can see the obvious manipulations. That’s a bonus, if you don’t mind them that’s a matter of personal taste. I haven’t used or put anything into Bishop for over six months at least, so my problem is with being treated like a simpleton. 

“Look, here are some entirely useless buffs to counteract the sledgehammer nerfs. We are nothing if not fair... Spent hundreds of hours or thousands of dollars to get these guys maxed? We’ll happily give you a tiny useless amount of ISO and HP to offset those losses (read theft).”

The whole thing is just too much of a scumbag tactic for me to stomach honestly, the fact nobody cares is good, I guess, for those people at least. Call me old school but I really miss the days when they didn’t have to rip you off to make a profit. 

In any case, I seem to be in the minority. So, I’ll leave everyone to their party, cake, cherries, etc...don’t want to spoil the fun any longer.

smiley22

I actually don’t see an issue with Polaris at all.  Fast offense characters that don’t hold up on defense are great for the game - I suspect that’s why thorkoye has never and prob will never be touched.  These allow people to climb quickly and generate a lot of points in the pvp slices, helping everyone hit progression goals and just generally creating more activity at higher points.

The big benefit is that these fast teams (including Polaris) can be beat by a wide variety of characters, therefore we all should see a much larger variety at the higher point totals - this is awesome and the best effect of these nerfs.  With Bishop - his best counter was prob another Bishop, creating an endless stream of Bishops at high points.

Regarding “winfinite” with 5CM, 4* Thanos, etc - I’ve played around with it a bunch this week, and it’s really fun, but unreliable and takes longer to set up than most people are admitting here.  I tried it in the SC10 challenge node and go wrecked 3 times in a row on only the third clear.  Thorkoye/Iceman and I hulk/vulture are far better there.  And in PVP those winfinites will be incredibly easy to defeat on defense so again, that’s great for the game and more points to go around for everyone.

So unless some unbeatable combo comes out of Polaris, I think she’s fun and fantastic for the health of the game.

Dormammu

Has anyone else tried Polaris/Ronin/Kitty?

qandols

Dormammu said:

Has anyone else tried Polaris/Ronin/Kitty?

I like to use Ronin and/or Daken with Kitty. Add Polaris and you have a real destructive team.