SCL 10 Kraven, Carnage and Sabretooth

Ir0nF1sh
Ir0nF1sh Posts: 52 Match Maker
in MPQ General Discussion
Do you even test these things before you release them. I know it’s supposed to be hard but this is just ridiculous! Their health is 3 to 4 times more and it takes nearly a full team to take down 1. 
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Comments

  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    There's a group of players that have most of the 5*s at 500 plus...or even all 550's. Before CL10 pve is like ddq to these players.

    I'm sure the devs were hoping to engage those players to keep 550ing each new 5*. Also give them separation in placement.

    People keep looking at CL10 as if every single roster that has 10 unlocked should be able to clear all nodes 7 times... shouldn't happen. CL10 is (for now) end game content.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    The Challenge Node is extra points. 

    The Challenge Node is extra points. 
    The Challenge Node is extra points. You can hit progression without ever playing it once, just clear every other node.....well, it used to be 5x with the 5th immediately after the 4th.  I’m not sure what it is now with crazy inflated points. 
    If you are a 4* player who plays up in 9, you can probably hit progression easily and run into a brick wall on a lot of the 5Es (well, some, anyway). The 5E is extra points for players in 7-9 as far as progression goes. 
    If you are a mere mortal roster and having trouble, so are most other players and you can still place well, if you care about that, by trying hard on the other nodes. 
    This event (FFW) is just kind of boring other than the CN.  Lots of Dark Avengers and Ultron goons. I get that this node is frustrating but that’s kind of to be expected on a lot of CNs. About 15-20% are super hard thanks to the devs’ power creeping. Best bet on those is permastun via 5HE, Coulson and Gamora/Worthy. 
    If you don’t have those tools, I suppose you get lower placement and either target them or try to focus on pvp. 
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    I’ve only been in SCL 10 for 2 days, so I’m just a 450 player but even in challenge node I haven’t taken any significant net health damage nor used a HPack . Granted future teams may be tougher but the first 2 days were kind of underwhelming 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    Michael1957 said:
    I’ve only been in SCL 10 for 2 days, so I’m just a 450 player but even in challenge node I haven’t taken any significant net health damage nor used a HPack . Granted future teams may be tougher but the first 2 days were kind of underwhelming 
    You’ve been posting this quite a bit. I’m interested in your take on the day 3 challenge node.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    Michael1957 said:
    I’ve only been in SCL 10 for 2 days, so I’m just a 450 player but even in challenge node I haven’t taken any significant net health damage nor used a HPack . Granted future teams may be tougher but the first 2 days were kind of underwhelming 
    You’ve been posting this quite a bit. I’m interested in your take on the day 3 challenge node.
    I agree. I’m still looking forward to a team I have no chance against . Then I can empathize with the frustrations, but even facing one occasionally I extrapolate I’ll still make max progression regardless. I’ll just make notes on which teams not to waste time on . 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    FFW Sub 1 CN:  Taskmaster/Soldier/Lieutenant.  Snore.  TM is sadly underpowered and mostly ineffective.  I am not sure which powers they assigned to the one in this node, as I picked SCL9 last time FFW ran as well as this time.  Easy pickings.

    FFW Sub 2 CN:  4Kingpin/2Bullseye/4 Elektra.  Two of the worst 4s in the game.  Yeah, no problem.

    Sub 3:  4Carnage/Kraven/Sabretooth.  YEAH.  4nage will spam 3 (?) - depends on the build - attacks every turn and once you have 4 out, Kraven is doing dmg every turn to you.  The ramp up in difficulty is pretty big.  Doesn't seem impossible, but a lot harder.
  • liminal_lad
    liminal_lad Posts: 476 Mover and Shaker
    I got through the first two rounds with  carnage, etc but I can't figure out any sort of workable strategy even with boosts for round 3.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    bluewolf said:

    Sub 3:  4Carnage/Kraven/Sabretooth.  YEAH.  4nage will spam 3 (?) - depends on the build - attacks every turn and once you have 4 out, Kraven is doing dmg every turn to you.  The ramp up in difficulty is pretty big.  Doesn't seem impossible, but a lot harder.
    I’ve never seen this combo, or anyone in years use it in PvAI. Has it just been overlooked? Or does it have a proven nemesis to negate it. What are the attack theories ( I have no Kitty)
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Michael1957 said:
    bluewolf said:

    Sub 3:  4Carnage/Kraven/Sabretooth.  YEAH.  4nage will spam 3 (?) - depends on the build - attacks every turn and once you have 4 out, Kraven is doing dmg every turn to you.  The ramp up in difficulty is pretty big.  Doesn't seem impossible, but a lot harder.
    I’ve never seen this combo, or anyone in years use it in PvAI. Has it just been overlooked? Or does it have a proven nemesis to negate it. What are the attack theories ( I have no Kitty)
    The thing about CNs is they scale up quite high, higher than you'll ever get in PVP (other than Balance of Power, I guess).

    So in general, who would run Carnage with their (presumably pretty low) Kraven?  The CNs aren't dependent on someone having targeted etc someone to make them reasonable to run.

    I am not sure Sabretooth really needs to be in there, but it certainly won't help with a scaled up red for 6 AP.  Take out Carnage to stop the attacks and there's still a hard hitting multi hit red waiting to smash you up.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hulkoye + Profe$$or does the trick.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    I actually didn’t have to resort to Hawkeye/Stun on opening in Sub 3. That was nice. If I had to do a 4th clear I imagine I’d of had to resort to that time, so a nice chunk of time saved there. 
  • Neuromancer
    Neuromancer Posts: 203 Tile Toppler
    edited August 2020
    bluewolf said:
    Michael1957 said:
    bluewolf said:

    Sub 3:  4Carnage/Kraven/Sabretooth.  YEAH.  4nage will spam 3 (?) - depends on the build - attacks every turn and once you have 4 out, Kraven is doing dmg every turn to you.  The ramp up in difficulty is pretty big.  Doesn't seem impossible, but a lot harder.
    I’ve never seen this combo, or anyone in years use it in PvAI. Has it just been overlooked? Or does it have a proven nemesis to negate it. What are the attack theories ( I have no Kitty)
    <snip>
    I am not sure Sabretooth really needs to be in there, but it certainly won't help with a scaled up red for 6 AP.  Take out Carnage to stop the attacks and there's still a hard hitting multi hit red waiting to smash you up.
    It's a variant on the old Medusa/Carnage/Kraven. A nightmare on defense in PvP until gritty caught on not long after. I don't think Sabretooth is good enough to lose Medusa's healing. His black attack tile spam is an interesting replacement, but Medusa's ability to litter assault tiles/countdown damage/potential color generation (especially red for carnage) is too good to pass up. Just be thankful the devs didn't use the earlier combo.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    Well you guys had me scared 😱 I have to admit, but Hulkoye/XFDP is at least one effective counter . Thanks for the alerts and advice .
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2020
    Michael1957 said:
    bluewolf said:

    Sub 3:  4Carnage/Kraven/Sabretooth.  YEAH.  4nage will spam 3 (?) - depends on the build - attacks every turn and once you have 4 out, Kraven is doing dmg every turn to you.  The ramp up in difficulty is pretty big.  Doesn't seem impossible, but a lot harder.
    I’ve never seen this combo, or anyone in years use it in PvAI. Has it just been overlooked? Or does it have a proven nemesis to negate it. What are the attack theories ( I have no Kitty)
    The problem with well designed challenge nodes is that even **** characters with otherwise useless abilities can become dangerous at level 650.  Take kraven.  His passive is probably his best ability, but at level 270, or even 370, it is a frustration to most 5* teams.  at level 650, he is doing ~25k per turn with carnage as a partner.  It's a sufficient difference in quantity to constitute a difference in kind.
    The most dangerous challenge nodes are the ones that can passively apply level 650 damage damage combined with 5* match damage (so anything with gritty, jj, prof x, IH, or 5* carnage is extremely hard).
    As for this particular node, sabertooth is significantly less threatening that Medusa would be, so we should count our blessings that they want to emphasize newer characters.  I used stunlock teams for the second and third clears.  I have not yet thought up a great team to use for the closing clear.  Maybe thorkoye + my own kraven? That would work great if okoye could tank the first 3-5 rounds.  There's also almost no aoe on that team (just Carnage's red) so in is strategies might work if you are patient. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’d ballpark a 650 Medusa would be doing 30k team healing every time she matched a friendly special. My guess is the devs either tested her or thought about it and realized you’d be in a borderline impossible situation. Maybe stun locks would work but I think anything else would just lose with Medusa, Kraven and Carnage. 
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    I had a tough time with Kraven + carnage in the last FFW, because I was relying on Britty. Which is a bad idea because Kraven just straight up to 10k damage per turn. And Britty damage was poor. 

    But now with apocalypse + Thor + Brb, my damage output is much higher. Though I still take 10k damage I could kill off Kraven in a few rounds. Though I still need to use one health pack per match, it was an improvement. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    atomzed said:
    I had a tough time with Kraven + carnage in the last FFW, because I was relying on Britty. Which is a bad idea because Kraven just straight up to 10k damage per turn. And Britty damage was poor. 

    But now with apocalypse + Thor + Brb, my damage output is much higher. Though I still take 10k damage I could kill off Kraven in a few rounds. Though I still need to use one health pack per match, it was an improvement. 
    Are you in cl9?  Kraven does ~25k per turn at level 650.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I did clear 2 with CapHawk + Apocalypse, but wiped on clear three because I couldn’t get yellow down soon enough. Once my health refreshes I’ll swap wCap for Iceman and see what that feels like.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I did clear 2 with CapHawk + Apocalypse, but wiped on clear three because I couldn’t get yellow down soon enough. Once my health refreshes I’ll swap wCap for Iceman and see what that feels like.
    Are 4* even healthy enough to last more than a few rounds in sub 3? I tried Rogue, Bishop , Juggs, all died in 3 moves . Didn’t try MCapHammer. DPXF worked because he doesn’t jump in front . 

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