***** Killmonger (Erik Stevens) *****

HoundofShadow

All are third wheels for Thorokoye.

Bad

VizMantis said:

So I guess the question is, are Yelena or Killmonger likely to be a better third wheel (sounds like maybe Yelena) or likely to form part of a solid replacement team altogether (maybe Killmonger?). 

So far it sounds like its kind of a toss-up, so I'm inclined to just go for Yelena.  As I mentioned, she's got an 8 cover headstart, so I can almost certainly champ her faster than I could Killmonger, leaving me more resources for the next hoard.

Its hard to say. Killmonger red passive certainly will speed progression but only making allies matches of enemy strongest color which always will vary.
On the other hand yelena will spam hard strike tiles wich can speed scl10 progression. 
If your aim is just what you said and you already have 8 covers go for yelena. 

Akroma

VizMantis said:

Akroma said:

spiderman 2099, iceman 5*, if okoye can tank red, sabretooh. and 4* torch

of course if u have an usable ihulk its good too 

Sorry if I’m being dense.  Are you naming good partners for Yelena or Killmonger?  Or are you suggesting good alternate third wheels for a Thorkoye team?

yea for thorkoye, as spider deal the team up damage as pasive /okoye) on each match of his colors (even if okoye makes those matches) and has a 5 hit skill. sabretooh has a 4 hit skill for only 6 red, and torch spams repeaters that each deal team up damage, up to 5 repeaters that recreates themselves, so 5 times the team up damage each turn. so its easy to do around 100k damage a turn once u have 15 team up.

KC_Hammer

bluewolf said:

HoundofShadow said:

His powers scream anti-Karnak and anti-America Chavez to me.

Critical tiles: Checked
Seldom fire power: Checked

The 150% damage is nice.

3/5/5 for me.

Using a 5 to counter a 4.....

Archangel
Apocalypse
Killmonger

Weird.

Honest question, whho is Apocalypse designed to counter? i didn't see anything obvious but i'm not dialed in to thhe meta much.

Polares

VizMantis said:

How does Killmonger look as compared with Yelena in terms of hoard pulling?

For a bit more detail, I broke my hoard a couple weeks ago for iHulk and Apocalypse.  I can't hope for much better than baby champ 5*s given my level of play, so once I champed iHulk, I stopped pulling, figuring I'd wait and see if the next 5* after Onslaught was better than Yelena.  I'm having a hard time deciding if Killmonger is indeed better, especially since Yelena has an 8 cover head start from my initial pull.  Anyone have any advice on the subject?

I am in a very similar position to you, my Yelena also with 8 covers (very close shards wise to 9) after I opened my hoard for iH/Apoc, the difference being I will be able to finish Apoc with Shards (just need 325 to finish him), so in my case I can try to finish Yelena, I can wait for KM or I can skip both, and just wait to see who comes next. At this point I have 140 pulls left. I am also a PvE player.

KM kit looks decent, even fun, but I dont know if he will be any useful for me. I didnt get Sinister, and I can get KM or Yelena but not both, so no trap trio for me.

As some people have already mentioned I think sabre, iH or even Apoc are probably better partners for Thoryoke for PvE than Yelena or KM, so I might skip both, but I am pretty undecided at this point (maybe getting some more Apoc covers would not be a bad idea, but if someone meta defining comes after KM I would like to be able to cover him).

brontag1

Polares said:

VizMantis said:

How does Killmonger look as compared with Yelena in terms of hoard pulling?

For a bit more detail, I broke my hoard a couple weeks ago for iHulk and Apocalypse.  I can't hope for much better than baby champ 5*s given my level of play, so once I champed iHulk, I stopped pulling, figuring I'd wait and see if the next 5* after Onslaught was better than Yelena.  I'm having a hard time deciding if Killmonger is indeed better, especially since Yelena has an 8 cover head start from my initial pull.  Anyone have any advice on the subject?

I am in a very similar position to you, my Yelena also with 8 covers (very close shards wise to 9) after I opened my hoard for iH/Apoc, the difference being I will be able to finish Apoc with Shards (just need 325 to finish him), so in my case I can try to finish Yelena, I can wait for KM or I can skip both, and just wait to see who comes next. At this point I have 140 pulls left. I am also a PvE player.

KM kit looks decent, even fun, but I dont know if he will be any useful for me. I didnt get Sinister, and I can get KM or Yelena but not both, so no trap trio for me.

As some people have already mentioned I think sabre, iH or even Apoc are probably better partners for Thoryoke for PvE than Yelena or KM, so I might skip both, but I am pretty undecided at this point (maybe getting some more Apoc covers would not be a bad idea, but if someone meta defining comes after KM I would like to be able to cover him).

With 140 pulls left I'd just keep hoarding Polares.  You already have the best of the new 5*'s with iHulk and Apoc(almost).. might as well see who's lurking next.

bluewolf

KC_Hammer said:

bluewolf said:

HoundofShadow said:

His powers scream anti-Karnak and anti-America Chavez to me.

Critical tiles: Checked
Seldom fire power: Checked

The 150% damage is nice.

3/5/5 for me.

Using a 5 to counter a 4.....

Archangel
Apocalypse
Killmonger

Weird.

Honest question, whho is Apocalypse designed to counter? i didn't see anything obvious but i'm not dialed in to thhe meta much.

A character who mostly tanks but can't be stunned when paired with a mutant...counters Bishop pretty well.

RickOShay

I think people are going to be quite impressed with KM's red, more than what we're hearing so far.
Strongly suggest running red at 5 or 4. It would be unfortunate to run at power level 3, you only get 1 crit that way. 

At level 5, red is 14K damage, and you will most often get 1 automatic match from one of the crits, and you can match the 2nd crit during that turn as well*.
With 5* match damage, that will often be 14K + crit auto-match of 8k to 12K or more, plus similar 8-12K damage from matching the 2nd crit*. AND, you get the AP generated from all of these matches.

*When playing red, If one or more of the crit tiles are remaining on the board (not auto-matched), you may decide to let the enemy go for 1 of them. Depending on their red AP this could lead to big damage or more red for you.
Is 5 red worth taking a huge hit? Maybe.

Does it actually seem that the AI is prioritizing crit matches lately? I thought crits were a;ways seen as a basic tile by the AI, I so could have confirmation bias here. 

Separately, I like that his trap power is purple. I agree it is a top 3 if not top 2 purple power in the 5* tier (ProfX, DD).
10 AP cost is no big deal instead of 9, Boost AP prior to the match if you can afford to.  
Yelena's purple /can be/ great and I think is underrated, but also admit her traps should have an ally-matched benefit. This power should have been a different color to work well with KM (maybe could have been green instead of her aoe?). 
 
I too think KM seems fun to run with Sinister. Be advised though, once you fire KM's purple he removes those traps and starts adding them one per turn again. I could see myself trying way too long to match a Behold trap, and being stuck waiting to fire purple afterward.

VizMantis

Polares said:

I am in a very similar position to you, my Yelena also with 8 covers (very close shards wise to 9) after I opened my hoard for iH/Apoc, the difference being I will be able to finish Apoc with Shards (just need 325 to finish him), so in my case I can try to finish Yelena, I can wait for KM or I can skip both, and just wait to see who comes next. At this point I have 140 pulls left. I am also a PvE player.

Now that you mention it, I failed to include my existing Apocalypse covers into the calculation.  I was thinking of this more like a totally new hoard pull, but that's not the case, I'm just trying to finish off Apocalypse (currently at 10 covers, 317 shards).  Given that, it would really only make sense to chase Killmonger if he was a top tier charter.  Since it sounds like most people think he'll be decent (or maybe good with other 5*s I don't have like Sinister), it seems like my best bet is to just pull for Apocalypse/Yelena/Onslaught and hope I can finish off Yelena in the process (and don't pull too many Onslaught covers).

Vhailorx

RickOShay said:

<snip>

Separately, I like that his trap power is purple. I agree it is a top 3 if not top 2 purple power in the 5* tier (ProfX, DD).
10 AP cost is no big deal instead of 9, Boost AP prior to the match if you can afford to.  
Yelena's purple /can be/ great and I think is underrated, but also admit her traps should have an ally-matched benefit. This power should have been a different color to work well with KM (maybe could have been green instead of her aoe?). 
 
<snip>

the difference between a 9 and a 10 ap power is actually pretty substantial.  boosting can mitigate that cost, but it's still there for every subsequent cast.  and the he doesn't self accelerate on purple either.

Polares

VizMantis said:

Polares said:

I am in a very similar position to you, my Yelena also with 8 covers (very close shards wise to 9) after I opened my hoard for iH/Apoc, the difference being I will be able to finish Apoc with Shards (just need 325 to finish him), so in my case I can try to finish Yelena, I can wait for KM or I can skip both, and just wait to see who comes next. At this point I have 140 pulls left. I am also a PvE player.

Now that you mention it, I failed to include my existing Apocalypse covers into the calculation.  I was thinking of this more like a totally new hoard pull, but that's not the case, I'm just trying to finish off Apocalypse (currently at 10 covers, 317 shards).  Given that, it would really only make sense to chase Killmonger if he was a top tier charter.  Since it sounds like most people think he'll be decent (or maybe good with other 5*s I don't have like Sinister), it seems like my best bet is to just pull for Apocalypse/Yelena/Onslaught and hope I can finish off Yelena in the process (and don't pull too many Onslaught covers).

I think you actually need to do what I did, just get enough covers for Apoc so you can finish him with shards. That is your main goal. Then luck will decide how many Yelena and ONS you get, but the goal is get enough covers for Apoc.

What I would do after Apoc is "finished", and depending how many Yelena covers you need, how many pulls you have left, you can decide if you try to finish her or just wait for who comes after KM. I didnt have too much luck with Yelena's red (mine is 2/2/4) but if you manage to get red to 5, you might decide that it is not worth it to finish her (with 10 covers, 5 in red, she is probably as good as champed :P )

VizMantis

Yeah, I will likely follow that path as well.  I didn’t really think about finishing Apocalypse with shards, but you’re right, I’m petty close to 500, so that should save me some pulls.

Sadly, I’ve had similar luck with Yelena’s red.  Mine is 2/4/2, so I doubt I’ll get her to 5 red before Apocalypse is done.

IIAlonditeII

HoundofShadow said:

Another theory I suspect is that Onslaught might get similar "boost" to 5* Prof X: increased rates of making match-5*, like how Prof X has increased rates of making match-4.In the past Onslaught event and PvP, I noticed a higher rate of match-5 which came out of nowhere. 

What are you talking about

bluewolf

IIAlonditeII said:

HoundofShadow said:

Another theory I suspect is that Onslaught might get similar "boost" to 5* Prof X: increased rates of making match-5*, like how Prof X has increased rates of making match-4.In the past Onslaught event and PvP, I noticed a higher rate of match-5 which came out of nowhere. 

What are you talking about

It might be worth reminding ourselves that in pve, there are built in limits to AI cascades whereas in PvP, there are not. Hence any time you have fought Onslaught, other than in the node-a-day event, he was not cascade-limited. 

Similarly, most fights against 5Prof are going to be in PvP where more cascades happen.  He does have an additional advantage insofar as using purple converts 3 tiles to the same color (increasing match 4/5 potential) as well as having every match 4/5 destroying an additional tile.  

I assume some of the cascade limiting tech also reduces the instances of match-4s and 5s. 

Kross

Forgive me if this has been asked, (and forgive if my explanation is poor) but...

If one side makes a match 5, and KM locks the crit tile, but there are already 2 color gems surrounding the crit, does the player get a crit match 3, and then the crit tile unlocks and will allow for another crit match?

Seems like this could double crit damage.

And would KM then generate 10 red AP? and do double his damage?

Vhailorx

Kross said:

Forgive me if this has been asked, (and forgive if my explanation is poor) but...

If one side makes a match 5, and KM locks the crit tile, but there are already 2 color gems surrounding the crit, does the player get a crit match 3, and then the crit tile unlocks and will allow for another crit match?

Seems like this could double crit damage.

And would KM then generate 10 red AP? and do double his damage?

I tried to articulate the same question. hopefully t****s or some other helpful player can test this for us when KM goes live in game.

In any event, I read KM's black passive as generating ap OR dealing damage, not both.  so you might get 10 red ap, or do ~56k damage, or get 5 red ap and deal 28k damage from a double proc, but you would never get 10 red ap AND deal damage.

Akroma

VizMantis said:

Polares said:

I am in a very similar position to you, my Yelena also with 8 covers (very close shards wise to 9) after I opened my hoard for iH/Apoc, the difference being I will be able to finish Apoc with Shards (just need 325 to finish him), so in my case I can try to finish Yelena, I can wait for KM or I can skip both, and just wait to see who comes next. At this point I have 140 pulls left. I am also a PvE player.

Now that you mention it, I failed to include my existing Apocalypse covers into the calculation.  I was thinking of this more like a totally new hoard pull, but that's not the case, I'm just trying to finish off Apocalypse (currently at 10 covers, 317 shards).  Given that, it would really only make sense to chase Killmonger if he was a top tier charter.  Since it sounds like most people think he'll be decent (or maybe good with other 5*s I don't have like Sinister), it seems like my best bet is to just pull for Apocalypse/Yelena/Onslaught and hope I can finish off Yelena in the process (and don't pull too many Onslaught covers).

is onslaugh so bad?

VizMantis

I don’t think Onslaught it so bad.  But I don’t think he’s worth the cp it would take me to get him from 0 to 13 covers on his own.  Adding Killmonger or Yelena To the equation still doesn’t seem to justify the cp expenditure.  So I’ll just hope to finish Apocalypse as soon as soon as possible so I can go back to hoarding.  If I finish off Yelena in the process, so be it.  If I finish off Onslaught in the process, it likely means my luck has taken a terrible turn.  Hence my hope to not pull too many Onslaught covers.

Vhailorx

so a few observations from playing the first "Introducing" node:

(1) I did get him to lock a crit tile after I made a match 5.  I could not move the tile, but I could move other tiles to make a match with it (which did then proc's KM's passive, but also did full damage as far as I could tell).  the tile was always supported, so I can't say if a locked crit will fall down the board.  overall, I think this makes him slightly less good in pve, at least in cl10, when enemy crit matches do far too much damage to risk.  he might still be a viable defensive deterrent in PVP though, especially with some other means of tanking the crit match damage (okoye, ice, sinister, etc). 

(2) his red passive is meh for the ai (which is too dumb to chase the boosted colors unless they are already a high-damage color for KM's team), but should be quite valuable in mirror matches.  I wonder if you could cleverly combine this passive with something like thor's green (and an enemy team with red green or yellow as the strongest color to supercharge the damage done by thor's boardshake).

(3) his red active is quite good.  ~14k for 9ap isn't great.  but you also get 2 free crits at 4 covers, which can really hurt in 5* play (and at worst can be left for the ai to fuel KM's passive).  It's a slightly more expensive version of PPSM's green that doesn't require you to fill the board with web tiles first.  add in the fact that he will often get 5-10 ap from his passives, and this power starts to look pretty useful.

(4) the purple is most reminiscent of 3* doom's purple.  if you forget about it early in the match, it can really come back to bite you.  but if you pay attention to ap denial and manage your casting, it's not too hard to play around.

ZeiramMR

Kross said:

Forgive me if this has been asked, (and forgive if my explanation is poor) but...

If one side makes a match 5, and KM locks the crit tile, but there are already 2 color gems surrounding the crit, does the player get a crit match 3, and then the crit tile unlocks and will allow for another crit match?

Seems like this could double crit damage.

And would KM then generate 10 red AP? and do double his damage?

@Vhailorx: I asked this too and have confirmation from the Introducing... event.

The crit tile is locked (potentially suspended as tiles drops in below it). It can be used in a match, which will unlock the critical tile but NOT give you critical damage. I think it was just the normal damage for the two tiles but it was a cascade and went by quick. I was able to use the crit normally in a match-4, all on the same turn as when it was generated.