Discussion on Beta Ray Bill and Bishop

System
System Posts: 1,024 Chairperson of the Boards
This discussion was created from comments split from: Has Apocalypse change the meta?.
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Comments

  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards


    Bill = broken beyond belief.

    glad i'm not the only one that sees this.

    remember when they nerfed oml cause he was used upwards of 10% of the time they said? not sure how the characters that are in 98% of the teams i see in pvp fly under the nerf radar...

  • _Vitto
    _Vitto Posts: 113 Tile Toppler
    There is one 5* character in this game that has a 6 ap ability that self-fuels. On top of that, the said ability happens to conveniently be of the same color of the most broken 4* character's regeneration mechanism. Doesn't get better than that.

    Unless for some reason the above characters disappear from existence, meta ain't gonna change.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2020
    _Vitto said:
    There is one 5* character in this game that has a 6 ap ability that self-fuels. On top of that, the said ability happens to conveniently be of the same color of the most broken 4* character's regeneration mechanism. Doesn't get better than that.

    Unless for some reason the above characters disappear from existence, meta ain't gonna change.

    Kinda feel like your complaint about BRB is relying heavily on bishop.  Bishop is the problem with brbishop. and bishop isn't even particularly broken as a 4*.  he is just broken because of the interaction of 5* match damage with 4* jump-in-front abilities.  BRB's self-accel is pretty slow without a blue battery and/or tile boosting.  it's hard to proc his yellow more than once or twice a turn, even with a board that has a lot of special tiles out.  That certainly adds up over a long match, but by itself is not sufficient to make a character broken (e.g., new gambit's black currently adds 6 ap every two turns.  So the enemy team would have to match 2 special tiles every turn to make BRB more efficient.  but it's not like gamibit is particularly meta these days).

    edited to refine the argument.
  • _Vitto
    _Vitto Posts: 113 Tile Toppler
    Vhailorx said:
    _Vitto said:
    There is one 5* character in this game that has a 6 ap ability that self-fuels. On top of that, the said ability happens to conveniently be of the same color of the most broken 4* character's regeneration mechanism. Doesn't get better than that.

    Unless for some reason the above characters disappear from existence, meta ain't gonna change.

    Kinda feel like your complaint about BRB is relying heavily on bishop.  "Saying character X is broken because he plays REALLY well with character Y who we all agree is broken" doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  BRB's self-accel is pretty slow without a blue battery and/or tile boosting.  it's hard to proc his yellow more than once or twice a turn, even with a board that has a lot of special tiles out.  That certainly adds up over a long match, but by itself is not sufficient to make a character broken (e.g., new gambit's black currently adds 6 ap every two turns.  So the enemy team would have to match 2 special tiles every turn to make BRB more efficient.  but it's not like gamibit is particularly meta these days).
    It's a matter of two broken characters, that as a plus work perfect together.

    If Bishop or BRB would exist separately, they would still be broken.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think it’s ridiculous that Bills blue procs with every tiny single little hit. That’s why it’s broken. You don’t want cascades against Bill, which by the way you can’t control at all. 

    **** mechanic 
    If you don't think you have any control at all over cascades then you aren't thinking hard enough about your moves.  Sure, sometimes you will get a line of 5 tiles of the same color populating the top row by random luck, and you can't control that.  But you can definitely look for moves that are less likely to produce cascades if you pay attention.
  • _Vitto
    _Vitto Posts: 113 Tile Toppler
    @BigSoftieFF dude, we must think harder and pay more attention. That's it.
  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    And accept that sometimes there is nothing we can do about bad boards/RNG.
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    _Vitto said:
    @BigSoftieFF dude, we must think harder and pay more attention. That's it.
    Done. I will now think and all will be well. 

    I don’t need to be told how to deal with Bill or Bishop, I know how to play the game at a high level. Doesn’t change the fact that mechanics can be broken and called out regardless of how much of a crutch it is for certain players to do well.
  • bowla33
    bowla33 Posts: 203 Tile Toppler
    Make BRBs blue only able to be fired if one isn't on the board or drop the self-generating AP. 

    Either way you fix that combo. 
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
    bowla33 said:
    Make BRBs blue only able to be fired if one isn't on the board or drop the self-generating AP. 

    Either way you fix that combo. 
    Or, since I don't think BRB is overpowered in his peer group, nerf Bishop so that his blue generator can only fire once per turn. Or once he hits 10 blue AP he self-stuns for one turn. Something like those options...
  • Palookaville
    Palookaville Posts: 83 Match Maker
    edited June 2020
    All this talk of BRB being overpowered, he is (kinda) but it's really more of a case that the majority of other 5*s are underpowered.

    I mean for 6 blue he can do instant damage, lay down protect tiles AND gain HP.

    Compare that to..... *randomly looks at a 5*

    Captain Marvel.... um... red.

    You have to wait for two turns and hope that your repeater does not get matched, before you can do damage and it takes 8 instead of six. 

    Yeah, yeah, red and blue, apples and oranges, but you get the idea. A LOT of other 5* characters have terrible powers and yet BRB has a triple whammy with just one.
  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    @Palookaville

    How does BRB get HP?
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 982 Critical Contributor
    All this talk of BRB being overpowered, he is (kinda) but it's really more of a case that the majority of other 5*s are underpowered.

    I mean for 6 blue he can do instant damage, lay down protect tiles AND gain HP.

    Compare that to..... *randomly looks at a 5*

    Captain Marvel.... um... red.

    You have to wait for two turns and hope that your repeater does not get matched, before you can do damage and it takes 8 instead of six. 

    Yeah, yeah, red and blue, apples and oranges, but you get the idea. A LOT of other 5* characters have terrible powers and yet BRB has a triple whammy with just one.
    BRB doesn't have any way to gain back hp.